Albake21
Ibanez Nerd
.....talk about someone being salty. I already said that wasn't the reason why I returned it.
Kiesel --- Never Again!
- Thread starter MetalHead40
- Start date
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btbg
Well-Known Member
Yeah. Because THAT is the only problem people have with Kiesel.
Ordacleaphobia
Shameless Contrarian
As someone who is also not a photographer, this was a really interesting read. Thanks for taking the time to type this up; I've noticed a lot of this stuff in taking my own photos for guitars I'm listing on Reverb, etc; but it's cool to see it all spelled out like this.
@Glades, he said the main reason it got returned was because his needs have changed and he's more of a trem player now. Kiesel was totally willing to take the guitar back and both parties are happy. All parties involved in the discussion have commented on how Kiesel makes really good looking guitars. Now we're discussing how marketing photos can potentially misrepresent a product and cause a schism between the manufacturer and the consumer. If you're going to come in and call people out, please at least read the past page or two of the thread first.
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MatiasTolkki
Burn In Agony
Tell me on the doll where Albake touched you.
I'm gonna say that if one isn't at least a little tiny bit of a cork sniffer that they probably shouldn't get involved with the time, money and potential heart break of a custom built guitar and instead go buy a normal guitar for less money, that you can try first and there is no (well low) chance of getting fucked over.
A-Branger
Well-Known Member
mmmmmm ok stop the conspiracy theories for one second. Kiesel didnt "photoshoped" this photo
Full time photographer/videographer here:
their photo was properly shot (with a slight wrong white balance tho)
your photos were underexposed. No matter how much light you trow at them, the camera underexposed the photo. If you are shooting with your Iphone you can hold your finger on the screen till a little sun symbol appears with a slider, slide it up/down to adjust the exposure that you camera thinks its "perfect"...... Cameras take the whole image and balance it to get a perfect medium grey, so if you are taking a photo of a white wall, then the photo would look "grey", as your phone would think its getting overexposed (too bright), same the other way around if there is too much "black" on frame.
Here is your photo properly exposed (like it should have been taken on the day).
I only did 2 things to this photo:
1- Up the exposure/brightness, so the pic is correctly exposed for the subject (the guitar body)
2- Change the white balance a little bit into a warmer, so it would match the showroom of that Kiesel photo. (EDIT: actually I should had pushed more to match Kiesel's pic)
Your photo has a more "real" white balance, their photo nope. This is because the lighting they have in that showroom seems to be a bit warmer (tungsten) pretty common lighting for indoors, plus a lack of a fix in-camera (or in post). Not their fault, I only did a very minor adjustment to the white balance. Hard to tell or normal people, but for me that I work in this everyday I see it on the black of the bridge and pickups, its not "black" but rather "yellow-ish"... but very very slight
Problem comes with colors like blue on this guitar. The slightest shift in white balance of the camera (even your computer monitor), can make a color like that go from deep blue, to aqua, to green..... Search for official photos of the Jackson Bulb blue burst guitar, and search pics of peoples rooms. Guitar goes from two tone blue, to a green to aqua blue fade
but yeah your guitar would end up being "darker" in person. Their photo was a bit over-exposed (and my photo edit too, to match theirs), but jsut a bit. But thats how ti shows on a photo, see how light the ebony board and pickups are. Its a full pro shot?, nope, its a more "real" photo, I dont blame them on it. Problem really comes with the whitebalance issue with that shade of blue. Only real solution is for them to take your guitar out in the sun and make a video of it
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Edika
Well-Known Member
mmmmmm ok stop the conspiracy theories for one second. Kiesel didnt "photoshoped" this photo
Full time photographer/videographer here:
their photo was properly shot (with a slight wrong white balance tho)
your photos were underexposed. No matter how much light you trow at them, the camera underexposed the photo. If you are shooting with your Iphone you can hold your finger on the screen till a little sun symbol appears with a slider, slide it up/down to adjust the exposure that you camera thinks its "perfect"...... Cameras take the whole image and balance it to get a perfect medium grey, so if you are taking a photo of a white wall, then the photo would look "grey", as your phone would think its getting overexposed (too bright), same the other way around if there is too much "black" on frame.
Here is your photo properly exposed (like it should have been taken on the day).
I only did 2 things to this photo:
1- Up the exposure/brightness, so the pic is correctly exposed for the subject (the guitar body)
2- Change the white balance a little bit into a warmer, so it would match the showroom of that Kiesel photo. (EDIT: actually I should had pushed more to match Kiesel's pic)
Your photo has a more "real" white balance, their photo nope. This is because the lighting they have in that showroom seems to be a bit warmer (tungsten) pretty common lighting for indoors, plus a lack of a fix in-camera (or in post). Not their fault, I only did a very minor adjustment to the white balance. Hard to tell or normal people, but for me that I work in this everyday I see it on the black of the bridge and pickups, its not "black" but rather "yellow-ish"... but very very slight
Problem comes with colors like blue on this guitar. The slightest shift in white balance of the camera (even your computer monitor), can make a color like that go from deep blue, to aqua, to green..... Search for official photos of the Jackson Bulb blue burst guitar, and search pics of peoples rooms. Guitar goes from two tone blue, to a green to aqua blue fade
but yeah your guitar would end up being "darker" in person. Their photo was a bit over-exposed (and my photo edit too, to match theirs), but jsut a bit. But thats how ti shows on a photo, see how light the ebony board and pickups are. Its a full pro shot?, nope, its a more "real" photo, I dont blame them on it. Problem really comes with the whitebalance issue with that shade of blue. Only real solution is for them to take your guitar out in the sun and make a video of it
This is really good information about the photography aspect of things. Your postpaid the one from spudmonkey does clear up a lot of things on how the photos were taken and that's just a lighting land camera setting trick.
Their guitars are visually quite impressive and don't require light tricks to be appealing (unless Jeff goes full Kiesel). Truth be told regular photos don't get you the colors you see in real life but it would be a lot better if they achieved a more true representation of the color human eyes see.
bracky
Contributor
Most of us never get to see them until the unboxing. Only a small few actually get a picture posted. It really is crazy ordering something so expensive site unseen. That’s why I have two. 
FitRocker33
My tone is tighter than my hamstrings
The Vader i recently received luckily turned out a bit better than I expected. I paid for a standard grade flametop and got the equivalent of what PRS would call a 10-top nowadays. I got a standard birdseye fretboard, expecting only light figuring but it actually had more than I expected. Even with a 5 piece neck and everything, I still paid well under 2k out the door. Kiesel definitely has the cost to value ratio down.
One thing I must say is Kiesel DOES seem to get some pretty damn good stocks of wood from their suppliers.
One thing I must say is Kiesel DOES seem to get some pretty damn good stocks of wood from their suppliers.
Albake21
Ibanez Nerd
You're going to talk about a new guitar and talk about how awesome the top is, only to not show any photos?
FitRocker33
My tone is tighter than my hamstrings
The last time I posted a photo here I got accused of hijacking a thread and all kinds of other unpleasantries lol, but since you actually solicited for one Im happy to oblige:
The natural lighting kinda washed out the fretboard so you can’t quite see the full depth of the figuring but it’s the only pic I have at the moment. May take more at some point.
Ordacleaphobia
Shameless Contrarian
Looks pretty damn good for 'standard options'! Happy surprises are the best ones.
AkiraSpectrum
Well-Known Member
The last time I posted a photo here I got accused of hijacking a thread and all kinds of other unpleasantries lol, but since you actually solicited for one Im happy to oblige:
The natural lighting kinda washed out the fretboard so you can’t quite see the full depth of the figuring but it’s the only pic I have at the moment. May take more at some point.
wow that is gorgeous!
FitRocker33
My tone is tighter than my hamstrings
Hey thanks man she plays as good as she looks too. As is status quo however, I’m probably going to be swapping out the lithium’s. I’m going back and forth between a black winter/ sentient set or a Titan/liquifire set for it. Not sure which of those two will sound best and tightest with the swamp ash and maple construction.
Jacksonluvr636
Well-Known Member
Guess it had been sold. I could not find it.
To the recent OP Albake? This is a bummer. IMO the guy has every right to return the guitar even if the color was the only thing different. I do think it looked awesome but it is your guitar so do what you want.
I am about to experience this first hand as I have the Charvel 1888 on order. The sales pictures look amazing and kind of like a matte finish.
Since I made the order I have looked around and found some real life photos where in reality the finish is super glossy and TBH with the brown color of the guitar it looks like doo doo.
I will say the specs did say gloss so that is my mistake. I won't know until I get the guitar but I am thinking I will always be bummed out because the matte pics look WAY better than the true gloss. Is what it is but I do not think I will be returning it.
Albake21
Ibanez Nerd
It hasn't been added to the instock section yet. Maybe this Friday.
spudmunkey
Well-Known Member
Here's a "factory floor" type photo of the same color, which I assume is likely much more representative of how their guitars look IRL, IMO, compared to the showroom photos, and that is most likely due purely to the showroom's lighting mentioned in previous posts (again, IMO).
Albake21
Ibanez Nerd
Yup I saw this posted. Definitely a lot closer, still not 100% but I'd be completely fine with more photos like this. The tiny difference could also be because this is a matte finish while mine was a gloss. Super awesome top too! Like I said before, a lot of the problems I had with how it came out was completely user error in what I chose. For example, that chrome hardware looks so much better than the black I chose. The other problem was the darker variant ebony board I chose while I should have gone with either the regular ebony, royal ebony, or even a maple.
A-Branger
Well-Known Member
theres nothing wrong with their photos. Their photos DO look like gloss. I have no idea from where you looking the mate from
Theres only two things that makes you eyes think a finish is glossy
-object reflections...... which it has, if you watch the tremolo arm reflection and hardware
-Light reflections.... which it has on the back tummy cut, and around the edges of the guitar
this second one is the one you want to show, but you dont want to show too much. You want the reflection, but you dont want a big white square on the top of the guitar. And for me who I make photoshop mockups, it has always been the hardest thing to replicate in order to look "natural" not being too intrusive and still give people the illusion of gloss
Most traditional light settups for guitars have two big soft boxes on the sides(plus more), The guitar body (on a gloss guitar) works like a mirror, the only way to see the light reflection is if the light is positioned on the right angle to guitar/camera. Easy to see on a carved top, on a flat top guitar you either see a tinny stripe around the edge, or you see the whole light (a big long white square box) on the top. This is particularly even harder when you have chrome pickups, as the light needs to be almost on the same spot as the camera so you can see the reflection on the chrome, so chrome would look like chrome and not "grey". This is the hardest thing to shoot
Now you wanna show the guitar, not the light, so its hard to position both. Reason why they pics look like they are, as they angled the guitar to the camera so you can see the top instead of the light reflection. They didnt "cheat" or "lie", its a gloss body, you can see its gloss
example:
the bass is not "white-ish", the bass is black gloss. But as they angled the bass into the light then the camera only sees the big square white material of the softbox light/flash reflecting on it, which works great for the chrome hardware, but works terrible on the body as you cant really see the body top....... And before you say "but this is great", yeh on a black guitar, lets try a different finish same webstore
everything on the top gets washed out. You can tell its gloss, but at the cost of loosing the top. This kind of photo works becasue its a webstore, but for a guitar brand nope. Unless its put on a context, next to the front photo that shows the top
so yeeah they didnt lie to you, they just know how to take photos
iamaom
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what to call it, but they're half-lies. All companies do it though, not just kiesel. Ibanez's website shows rosewood fretboards so dark they look like ebony, but in real life they're actually lighter than milk chocolate. It's not lying but it's certainly not honest.
