Small hands, wide fretboard

[animalwithin]

Unfortunately, I'm cursed with small hands.

Some of my guitars have fretboards that are a bit wider than others and combined with my small hands, makes playing on the lowers strings a bit difficult.

I'll be playing on the low e for example and the bottom of my fingers, where the fingers meet the palm, are hitting against the high e. The only way for me to get around this is to curve my wrist forward, almost like I'm cupping my hand, just to get that part of my hand off the higher strings which is cumbersome.

Anyone else deal with this? What's the best way to play in a situation like this?

 

[odibrom]

Are you using the classical grip approach (with the thumb by the neck's middle) or the rock approach, with the thumb over by the low string? Use the first, save yourself some injuries. Also, raise your guitar quite a bit, so the headstock is at level with your eyes, more or less...

 

[animalwithin]

Are you using the classical grip approach (with the thumb by the neck's middle) or the rock approach, with the thumb over by the low string? Use the first, save yourself some injuries. Also, raise your guitar quite a bit, so the headstock is at level with your eyes, more or less...

Classical grip approach is what I'm using. It definitely helps to raise the guitar, I might have to raise it even more.

I'll make a correction to my original post in that it's the area of my palm right underneath the fingers that is hitting the high strings, mostly the high e.

 

[budda]

Get a more comfortable guitar if raising it doesnt work? Ebmm does narrow spacing.

 

[odibrom]

Classical grip approach is what I'm using. It definitely helps to raise the guitar, I might have to raise it even more.

I'll make a correction to my original post in that it's the area of my palm right underneath the fingers that is hitting the high strings, mostly the high e.

Just for disambiguation, you’re not comparing 6 with 7 or more string guitars, are you?

Different fretboard radius and neck profile/thickness also affect how one plays and feels the neck. Check that out as well.

... and raise that guitar. Classical position with the guitar at one's knees is a sure way to get wrist injuries...

 

[animalwithin]

Just for disambiguation, you’re not comparing 6 with 7 or more string guitars, are you?

Different fretboard radius and neck profile/thickness also affect how one plays and feels the neck. Check that out as well.

... and raise that guitar. Classical position with the guitar at one's knees is a sure way to get wrist injuries...

No 7 strings, only 6 strings in my collection at the moment.

I'll look into the fretboard radius and neck profile. I always just assumed it was the fretboard width that is the issue here but perhaps it's a combination of all three.

I'll experiment more with raising the guitar assuming more of a classical position. It may be that I'm not doing those enough and it's the fix that I'm looking for.

 

[odibrom]

No 7 strings, only 6 strings in my collection at the moment.

I'll look into the fretboard radius and neck profile. I always just assumed it was the fretboard width that is the issue here but perhaps it's a combination of all three.

I'll experiment more with raising the guitar assuming more of a classical position. It may be that I'm not doing those enough and it's the fix that I'm looking for.

Please report back your findings. A guitar-player relation is never simple and some noticeable problems may have out of the box solutions... analise everything, but I'd first raise the guitars to a more comfortable level. Bending the wrist is not a good long term solution, so look for a position where i is almost in line with the arm... either standing up or sit down...

 

[animalwithin]

Please report back your findings. A guitar-player relation is never simple and some noticeable problems may have out of the box solutions... analise everything, but I'd first raise the guitars to a more comfortable level. Bending the wrist is not a good long term solution, so look for a position where i is almost in line with the arm... either standing up or sit down...

Reporting back. I found that my most advantageous position with respect to this problem is standing up, classical position, with the guitar very high up.

My only problem now is my pinky. The above position solved my palm-hitting-high-e problem, but my pinky still suffers from this problem on the low e higher up the fretboard. For example, low e, 15th fret. The bottom on my pinky is pressing down on the high e as I'm pressing down on the low e to fret that string.

It's the shortest finger so I'm thinking to make that stretch the whole finger is coming down on all the strings and since the finger is curved, it's actually pressing down on the high e whilst I fret the low e.

 

[odibrom]

Reporting back. I found that my most advantageous position with respect to this problem is standing up, classical position, with the guitar very high up.

My only problem now is my pinky. The above position solved my palm-hitting-high-e problem, but my pinky still suffers from this problem on the low e higher up the fretboard. For example, low e, 15th fret. The bottom on my pinky is pressing down on the high e as I'm pressing down on the low e to fret that string.

It's the shortest finger so I'm thinking to make that stretch the whole finger is coming down on all the strings and since the finger is curved, it's actually pressing down on the high e whilst I fret the low e.

I feel your pain. All I can say at this moment is: PRACTICE.

A few hints I've managed to address that problem (my hands are also small, not sure how much compared to yours, be here goes):
1 - The picking hand arm pushes the guitar towards the opposite side, in my case, my right arm pushes the guitar a bit to the left, when I'm in the higher register of the fretboard.
2 - Beyond the 15th or 17th fret, my fretting hand's thumb leaves the back of the neck and almost comes through the treble strings side up on the fretboard. That's the only way I can get my pinky up on the 6th and 7th strings' 17+ frets. The guitars' action must be low so the pressure on the strings does not need the grip from the thumb for the strings to ring out fine. Do note that the tone and sustain on these notes is significantly different from the same notes achieved on higher strings and lower frets.
3 - my fretting hand tilts differently (consider your forearm as the rotation axis) when I'm to reach the lower strings with the index versus the pinky fingers, so to adjust to the needs. It gives an added measure (millimeters or inches) to reach the desired fret/string target.

I regularly do some fingering and picking exercises to make these ideas become more natural and instinctive when free playing. When I'm bored from these same old exercises, I'll try to find something else.

I hope this helps a bit. I'm no master and am still learning...

 

[animalwithin]

I feel your pain. All I can say at this moment is: PRACTICE.

A few hints I've managed to address that problem (my hands are also small, not sure how much compared to yours, be here goes):
1 - The picking hand arm pushes the guitar towards the opposite side, in my case, my right arm pushes the guitar a bit to the left, when I'm in the higher register of the fretboard.
2 - Beyond the 15th or 17th fret, my fretting hand's thumb leaves the back of the neck and almost comes through the treble strings side up on the fretboard. That's the only way I can get my pinky up on the 6th and 7th strings' 17+ frets. The guitars' action must be low so the pressure on the strings does not need the grip from the thumb for the strings to ring out fine. Do note that the tone and sustain on these notes is significantly different from the same notes achieved on higher strings and lower frets.
3 - my fretting hand tilts differently (consider your forearm as the rotation axis) when I'm to reach the lower strings with the index versus the pinky fingers, so to adjust to the needs. It gives an added measure (millimeters or inches) to reach the desired fret/string target.

I regularly do some fingering and picking exercises to make these ideas become more natural and instinctive when free playing. When I'm bored from these same old exercises, I'll try to find something else.

I hope this helps a bit. I'm no master and am still learning...

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply man, really means a lot and I appreciate the advice. Great to be talking to someone facing a similar issue as well.

I'll give a try to the different techniques you've mentioned here but I'm assuming it'll take practice and finesse. I will say that my thumb will move upwards, rather than downwards, when I go higher up the fretboard on the lower strings. This keeps my wrist in relatively the same position. If I try to position my thumb in the usual center of the neck and then reach for the lower strings, my wrist bulges downwards which is really uncomfortable.

 

[odibrom]

(...) If I try to position my thumb in the usual center of the neck and then reach for the lower strings, my wrist bulges downwards which is really uncomfortable.

Push your elbow forward...?

 

[Gtan7]

This is all good advice here, it's really easy to contort wrist while strain/stretching for chords and get RSI, been there a few times, guitar combined with long hours at PC.

I think it would be good to have a teacher or very experienced player look at you playing and your whole practice setup, the chair, where you put your sheet music/tablet, lots of things could be factors. Also i never play low E above 12th fret,

 

[animalwithin]

Push your elbow forward...?

If I push my elbow forward, it only pushes my wrist downwards.

This is all good advice here, it's really easy to contort wrist while strain/stretching for chords and get RSI, been there a few times, guitar combined with long hours at PC.

I think it would be good to have a teacher or very experienced player look at you playing and your whole practice setup, the chair, where you put your sheet music/tablet, lots of things could be factors. Also i never play low E above 12th fret,

I'm currently taking Skype lessons but I'm not satisfied with them and one reason is what you eluded to: you don't have someone a few feet from you looking at every aspect of your playing position. I'm looking for an in-person teacher to replace Skype so hopefully I can find someone who's willing to analyze in detail what my whole body is doing and help me figure it out.

I agree with you though, not much on the low E past the 12th fret but I was running some scales that just so happen to have me in that area. I might be worrying about something that I might not encounter that often but it was just an observation. I will say it definitely helps just to keep it in mind. I guess this is all part of playing cleanly.

 

[odibrom]

If I push my elbow forward, it only pushes my wrist downwards.

(...)

When you're playing, is your fretting hand wrist higher or lower than its elbow's level?

 

[Shask]

I have smaller hands and have always fought with this. I have learned I cannot do wide, thin fretboards like Ibanez. They have given me all kinds of wrist issues in the past. I do much better with narrow, round necks, like Schecter. I also keep my guitar Tom Morello high. My fretting hand is usually level with my eyes when playing at the 1st fret.

 

[odibrom]

(...) My fretting hand is usually level with my eyes when playing at the 1st fret.

It's interesting to see how many of us end up with the same conclusion, but with different phrasing... rock on!

 

[animalwithin]

When you're playing, is your fretting hand wrist higher or lower than its elbow's level?

I'll go with my palm since that gives you a better idea of what I'm seeing.

When I'm playing prior to the 12th fret, my palm more/less stays in line with my elbow. It's fairly flat and my fingers can reach around the fretboard to fret the strings. When I go past the 12th fret and want to reach the low E making sure I don't hit the high e, my palm wants to curl upwards (think flexing your forearm). It's no longer parallel with the elbow and I can see how this would cause wrist issue.

I have smaller hands and have always fought with this. I have learned I cannot do wide, thin fretboards like Ibanez. They have given me all kinds of wrist issues in the past. I do much better with narrow, round necks, like Schecter. I also keep my guitar Tom Morello high. My fretting hand is usually level with my eyes when playing at the 1st fret.

I just got a 1989 Burny and I'm noticing this problem with it. I have other Japanese LPs and other guitars and this was most likely an issue with the others but this is the first time it's really standing out so maybe this guitar has a wider fretboard than the rest. As @odibrom eluded to and you here, classical position with the guitar high up is what helps the most mechanically.

 

[odibrom]

(...)

When I'm playing prior to the 12th fret, my palm more/less stays in line with my elbow. It's fairly flat and my fingers can reach around the fretboard to fret the strings. When I go past the 12th fret and want to reach the low E making sure I don't hit the high e, my palm wants to curl upwards (think flexing your forearm). It's no longer parallel with the elbow and I can see how this would cause wrist issue.

(...)

Maybe try to raise the guitar a bit more? Yes, as we move up the neck (higher frets) the hand tends to lower its level. When compared to the elbow, I try my best to have the hand higher than the elbow so when I push my elbow forward, it's still bellow the hand's height and therefore not curling the wrist that much. Sometimes, the thumb holds the guitar's neck and the fretting is not accomplished the thumb+fingers pinch. To me this is not a true to all solution, and I surf some of these as I feel at the moment.

Nevertheless, I also feel that another thing must be said. Think of a piano, not all piano pieces can be played by everyone. Some chords are super difficult for smaller hands. My sister plays the piano quite well (she's schooled), but can't do it all because of her small hands. Not being able to play some music or exercises or whatever due to one's sizes is not a sign of failure or that one is bad at it. It's just what it is. Paul Gilbert and Steve Vai have both long fingers, so they'll play shit I won't ever be able to with the same guitars. This to say that one has to adapt to what one can reach and work with it.

Last thing to say is PRACTICE and ANALYZE your practice with the question "How can I improve this without hurting myself?". Never force/rush things in practice, for that leads to injuries.

 

[Wucan]

As another small hander, I find the biggest impact on hand posture is the ergonomics of the guitar itself. If you can get it relatively close to your body in a classic stance it's much easier to manage your left hand without unnatural stretches.

I prefer having a narrower neck width on my guitars but I don't find it particularly important when playing up the neck. Nowadays I play my 8 a lot and I really don't have any issues aside from weird chord shapes or playing the lowest E past the 12th.

 

[animalwithin]

@odibrom Thank you again for the advice. I'm definitely learning to relax and lighten up as a player since I'm usually very heavy handed to a fault. The particular issue of this thread is certainly not solved by my usual style of playing so much adaptation must be made on my part.

@Wucan Crazy that you're playing an 8 with small hands and no problems! Props to you, I suddenly feel like I can't complain about my issue haha.