Why don't all Dual Rec's come with Mesa's signature 5-band EQ?

Christopher Har V

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I only just now started using Mesa's 5-Band EQ Pedal with my dual rec, and it's seriously brought the amp to life.
Particularly the middle 3 bands of the EQ have been the most helpful. The presence and bass on the amp itself are pretty damn close to the respective 80 & 6600Hz on the EQ... but it's those 240, 750, and 2200Hz channels on the EQ that really allow for superior tone shaping.

In my opinion, no other EQ comes close to Mesa's signature 5-band design when it comes to guitar tones. There's something truly magical about those exact frequencies that Mesa chose... and likely something equally magical about the specific widths they chose for each channel.

POINT IS... if you own a Dual Rec, I seriously recommend buying Mesa's 5-Band EQ pedal. It should come built into the amp like with the newer models of their Mark series, IMO. If any of you got a dual rec and are using another EQ that's suiting you just fine, I'd love to hear about it. If anybody has tried that Mesa 5-band EQ pedal with non-Mesa amps, I'd love to hear about it, if it works the same kinda magic as with a Mesa amp or not.
 

4Eyes

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the reason why Mark series have graphic EQ and Rectos don't is that their EQ sections (rotary pots) are placed in different locations in amp's preamp section.

Mark:
B/M/T controls are located before drive sections, so their affect the texture of distortion - depending on the amount of bass/mids/treble you can dial in super tight or super fuzzy sounds. you can achieve similar effect by placing EQ pedal in front of any hi-gain amp. To complement that in modern era, there was need to shape sound of the amp after distortion as well, that's why Mark series amps have graphic EQ and that's placed after distortion.

Recto:
they are modern amps with B/M/T controls placed after distortion, so there is no (logical) reason for an additional graphic EQ like Marks do have and stacking two EQs in series after distortion.

although, depending on the whole signal chain - guitar, material from which the guitar is made of, strings, pickups, effects, tubes, cabs and speakers - some people may find to have another EQ in the FX loop useful, but IMO I'd try to find a root cause in the first place. lots of people tend to say EQ in the loop brings Rectos to life - that sounds to me like lack of mids or high end and I haven't experienced such thing on any of the Rectos I've played through.
 

mnemonic

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Rectos already have tons of switches and modes and controls, enough to confuse most normie guitarists who are used to 6 knobs and nothing else.

I do agree rectos benefit from an eq in the loop though. It does kind of double functionality of the B/M/T eq on the amp, but does allow more fine-tuning.

But there is a benefit in not over-complicating things right from the start.
 

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gunch

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What 4eyes said

The knobs on a mark are more like an input filter and the geq is the tone stack eq

Which is cool and all but why hasn’t anyone ever done it the other way around? (Where the geq is the input filter)
 

KailM

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In my experience with 5150s of all types, an EQ in the loop, even if it's adjusting the same stage in the preamp as the amp's b/m/t knobs (post distortion), can have a dramatic effect on tone that is not achievable with the amp's EQ alone. It's that "fine" tuning of the midrange that is incredibly useful. I see no reason why it wouldn't be equally powerful in a Rectifier.

With my 5150s, I cut the mids in the 500hz range by 6db, but leave all the other mids; even boost 2khz a little. That one tweak alone makes it sound infinitely better to my ears.
 

LiveOVErdrive

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A GEQ gives you way more control than a standard BMT tone stack. Especially since the standard bassman BMT tone stack that nearly every amp has used since the 50s is not a very good tone control.

Also the fact that tone controls are usually post-distortion is the main reason boost pedals in front of an amp work so well. They basically act as your pre-distortion EQ to shovel out bass and tighten your signal up.
 

TheWarAgainstTime

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A little bit of eq goes a long way in the fx loop, but too much cutting and boosting can destroy what makes the amp unique in the first place.

For example, I used to run a Triple Rectifier with a DBX 31 band eq in the loop, but I was trying to cut a lot of low end and boost a ton of mids to try to "match" my other guitarist's 5150 and it sort of neutered the amp overall. I had to learn to just make some minor EQ moves to get the most from the amp and always A/B with the eq on and off. After that, we had a much better band mix, but I realized the Rectifier just wasn't my thing overall. I eventually traded it for a Mark V and also picked up a 5153, both of which are already tighter and more mid-focused than the Rectifier anyway.

But yeah, best to get as close to the "goal" tone with the amp by itself, then use a bit of eq as needed to get the rest of the way there. The Mark series GEQ is super powerful because of its placement in the circuit, but it's essentially the same effect as the normal bass/mid/treble controls on most other amps. Also, that DBX eq I had was a solid piece of gear and was dirt cheap, like $40 from Guitar Center used, so it's worth looking into if you want to experiment with another EQ besides the Mesa pedal.
 
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G_3_3_k_

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To me, the way the tone stack in the Recto series works, it would make more sense to put the EQ before the amp. You'd get more of that Mark series effect in sculpting the tone before the gain stages.
 

Seabeast2000

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In my experience with 5150s of all types, an EQ in the loop, even if it's adjusting the same stage in the preamp as the amp's b/m/t knobs (post distortion), can have a dramatic effect on tone that is not achievable with the amp's EQ alone. It's that "fine" tuning of the midrange that is incredibly useful. I see no reason why it wouldn't be equally powerful in a Rectifier.

With my 5150s, I cut the mids in the 500hz range by 6db, but leave all the other mids; even boost 2khz a little. That one tweak alone makes it sound infinitely better to my ears.

I have a para eq in my 5153 loop. Friend who is a Mesa guy through and through came over and plugged in last weekend and has no 5150 exposure says at first chord, "wow, very scooped Mesa sound there". Point? None but I figured I'd share.
 

LiveOVErdrive

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A Recto/Mark hybrid would be fucking amazing
Mesa dual caliber?

waaweh0eqdhcaqxobww0.jpg
 

G_3_3_k_

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Exactly. However, the F Series and the DC Series didn't have quite as much gain on tap as a Recto/Mark. They ARE in fact unreal amplifiers and will accomplish nearly anything you want with a good OD in front.
 

KnightBrolaire

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Exactly. However, the F Series and the DC Series didn't have quite as much gain on tap as a Recto/Mark. They ARE in fact unreal amplifiers and will accomplish nearly anything you want with a good OD in front.
Wat. The f30 is a bit lower gain for sure, but the f100 I have has more gain than you'd really ever need, even compared to my mk3. It was a bitch to dial in the f100 compared to the f30 but man does it kick ass once you dial it in. contour channel sucks dick on the f100 compared to the f30 though.
 

G_3_3_k_

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I should have been more clear. I meant the current production stuff. The Mark V and the JP2C have more gain. The F100 is a unique beast. I've heard a few, but never played one.
 

KnightBrolaire

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Would you say that they are rightfully unpopular or unjustly?
unjustly so. the f series are great for basically whatever kind of music you want. like any mesa they have a bit of a learning curve and require time to dial in . I haven't tried a dual cal or nomad yet but from what i've read they are also pretty versatile
 

Christopher Har V

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Do you run it up front or in the FX loop?
Up front, but I haven't been experimenting with it for very long. I will try it in the FX loop as well, but i suspect that I will like it up front more, because of how the Recto's built-in B/M/T comes post-distortion... so I can kind of shape the tone from both sides, 5-band first.

This does beg the question, which approach is more logical: granted all EQ neutral (12:00/0dB), should I first dial in my tone with the 5-band pedal, and then do some finer shaping with the amp's B/M/T, or vice versa?
I typically go for vice versa, dialing it in on the amp as best I can and then using a 5-band for fine tweaking... but now that I know the Recto's B/M/T is post-distortion, and since I like the 5-band pedal pre-distortion, it might make more sense to just dial them in in the order of the signal chain.
 


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