10 more states concidering Immigration Laws!!!!

[Prime]

Firstly, I'm not negging you Jym, just for the record.

It has nothing to do with qualifications, it's all about the fact that the illegal immigrants will work for significantly less, and follow directions unquestionably, because they A) don't have other options, and B) they need quick, off the books money, and C) they won't make waves for fear of detention and deportation. They did not win the job because they are more qualified, or because they are harder workers. It's all about money. By willing to work for pennies, they drive down the pay scale of similar jobs to the point that even if a legal citizen (notice how I don't say white) were to get the job, it simply would not pay enough to earn a living.

As for camping, I was not implying they were sleeping outside these establishments, but they are simply sitting around waiting to do odd jobs, which for the record, I don't really have a problem with. Until of course a general contractor pulls up and offers a few guys $50 to do a quick job, just so he doesn't have to pay others, legitimate workers a decent wage.

Then of course there's the side of things that you aren't even considering such as welfare, food stamps, and education. Why should you and I, as tax payers, pay for illegal immigrants' food, shelter, schooling, and medical care? Especially if that illegal is little more than a lazy baby factory.

Exactly. I get tired of people saying that illegals are willing to take jobs that U.S. citizens do not want. "Illegal immigrants will work for significantly less" says it all.

 

[renzoip]

You're right, it's not a law and they do have a right not to speak the language. However, as gunshow86de said, it's a safety issue. I'd add that it's also common courtesy, is common sense and for the most part can only HELP these people in almost every aspect of their lives over here. If we went to Mexico to live permanently we could continue to speak English. I believe down there we'd share that same right, but, if we wanted to prosper, do well and blend into society, it would be in our best *interests* to learn Spanish, for safety, security and a host of other reasons mentioned above.

Going there to live permanently with the expectation that government officials, stores and residents should have to learn OUR language (English) would be, to me at least, beyond arrogant and self-centered.

I really don't get what is so hard to understand about that, not you Custom, but Latino's in general. It's not like your "Latino-ness" suddenly evaporates the moment you learn English.

I don't think learning another language mass you less of your ethnicity. Most of my friends are fluent in both English and Spanish and use it whenever it's more appropriate. On the other hand, I also have Anglo-American friends who learned Spanish and they don't feel any less American.

But on the other hand, the are plenty of non English speakers who have been able to prosper in the U.S. just as much if no more than native English speakers. And I'm not only talking about Latinos, but also many Arabs, Iranians and Asians. It mainly has to do with your mode of production. Many of these people manage their businesses and employ bilingual people that can interpret and act on their behalf in the mainstream society. Are they less integrated? Sure, but it's not just about integrating, but how one integrates. I also know people who speak fluent English and integrate into lower layers of society doing low paying jobs and having to put up with people bashing their culture.

If I had to choose, I'd rather be less integrated but occupy a better economic position.

 

[Dusty201087]

Read that, and tell me it makes sense.

I could also say "Basically, it makes it so police can check your status and then deport you on the spot".

Doesn't mean it's true. You can't sum up an entire piece of legislation into one sentence and then run around using it as your banner.

People are interpreting it that way because that's how you wrote it. You have to understand that by comparing this to Nazi Germany, you are going to (whether intentionally or not) imply that this is a human rights violation on the same level.

Also, I'm not quite sure you understand what the word zealot means. I don't think I saw anybody acting like one. Calling it a tragedy that millions of Jews were killed hardly fits.

Comparing one aspect of something does not mean I'm comparing the entire thing to the holocaust (whether you like it or not).

And I'm quite sure I know what a zealot is. When anyone has come in this thread with a different opinion they have been attacked and in some cases received negative rep.

Listen; I think that people SHOULD have to legally immigrate here. What I foresee happening though, is that this bill will pass and the suspicion of someone being an illegal immigrant will become probable cause - leading police to simply stop people who "look different", which I don't think is right.

That's all my opinion is. Not that this is the holocaust.

 

[MorbidTravis]

Honestly, i think they should make traffic signs in multiple languages. I always have people yelling at me in spanish, creole(at least i think it was) even an old german guy. All because i like to follow the traffic signs. My guess is that they dont know english that well, or cant read it. if they dont know how to read STOP.

 

[groph]

Honestly, i think they should make traffic signs in multiple languages. I always have people yelling at me in spanish, creole(at least i think it was) even an old german guy. All because i like to follow the traffic signs. My guess is that they dont know english that well, or cant read it. if they dont know how to read STOP.

I think people should learn a few English and Spanish words, or English and French if you're Canadian. It's not like all culture would be robbed from our immigrants if they had to learn the odd English/French/Spanish/other dominant language word. Having all the major traffic signs in 400,000 languages would get a little confusing and probably dangerous.

All I can say regarding the immigration issue are these points. Note I am not Glenn Beck or some kind of expert on anything like this. I'm 19.

"Job stealing" - It's an expression. Mexicans aren't literally stealing jobs from people. I guess since they are willing to work for less, they get hired. If there are torrents of them willing to work for less, .. Screw this, you know the "Goobacks" episode of South Park, and the Maddox article on his site? That's basically my stance. Yeah I'd hate for someone else to come into my workplace and assume my job because they are equally qualified but will do it for next to free, but could I really blame my employer? If it's all about profit, and that's capitalism, tough shit. It's the best system we have so far. Not perfect, but it has yet to fail like socialism and communism.

If a group of people are causing a problem in a country, this group should be dealt with. I think this is pretty straightforward. The issue is how, and that's when you get called a racist even though you're not implying any superiority of a certain race based on racial characteristics. (which is the key element of racism. If that implication isn't there, it's not racist. The word is thrown around so much it's almost meaningless and only cheapens what racism actually is)

 

[renzoip]

I think people should learn a few English and Spanish words, or English and French if you're Canadian. It's not like all culture would be robbed from our immigrants if they had to learn the odd English/French/Spanish/other dominant language word. Having all the major traffic signs in 400,000 languages would get a little confusing and probably dangerous.

All I can say regarding the immigration issue are these points. Note I am not Glenn Beck or some kind of expert on anything like this. I'm 19.

"Job stealing" - It's an expression. Mexicans aren't literally stealing jobs from people. I guess since they are willing to work for less, they get hired. If there are torrents of them willing to work for less, .. Screw this, you know the "Goobacks" episode of South Park, and the Maddox article on his site? That's basically my stance. Yeah I'd hate for someone else to come into my workplace and assume my job because they are equally qualified but will do it for next to free, but could I really blame my employer? If it's all about profit, and that's capitalism, tough shit. It's the best system we have so far. Not perfect, but it has yet to fail like socialism and communism.

If a group of people are causing a problem in a country, this group should be dealt with. I think this is pretty straightforward. The issue is how, and that's when you get called a racist even though you're not implying any superiority of a certain race based on racial characteristics. (which is the key element of racism. If that implication isn't there, it's not racist. The word is thrown around so much it's almost meaningless and only cheapens what racism actually is)

Honestly, traffic signs are not that hard to understad. Most of them are pretty self explanatory. When I moved t the US, I barely spoke any English and I had no problem passing the exam to get my permit. I think it is up to the immigrant to make a effort to learn them if they want to drive.

As far as racism, I think it is not necessary for the law to imply racial superiority be considered racist so long as the collateral damage resulting from it is. I understand the law is targeted toward suspected undocumented immigrants; and theoretically, the only way of knowing someone's status would be to ask. However, most people already put a face on what they consider a suspect. Therefore, would be unlikely that African-Americans or Asians who get stopped will be asked to show proof of legal stay in the country as much as Hispanics.

Lastly, many have not mention that fact that the law does not only target undocumented immigrants but also citizens who shelter of transport them.

 

[Murmel]

or cant read it. if they dont know how to read STOP.

Isn't STOP like the global stop sign? Atleast here in Europe I've never seen anything else.. I also believe that they use it in Asia. Not sure though.

Edit: Nvm, just checked, not all countries but alot of them have it. Or STOP in the countrys language then STOP beneath it.

 

[gunshow86de]

Comparing one aspect of something does not mean I'm comparing the entire thing to the holocaust (whether you like it or not).

I get what you meant after you explained it. I'm just trying to tell you that very few people will interpret it that way.

And I'm quite sure I know what a zealot is. When anyone has come in this thread with a different opinion they have been attacked and in some cases received negative rep.

The word zealot generally is associated with religious fanaticism. It originally was something like "Jewish warrior," but the meaning has changed over time. I still don't see anyone taking issue with you based on any religious feelings.

I did notice you have some neg rep for that comment. I think it's pretty low to give someone neg rep for expressing an opinion in a discussion; that should only happen if somebody is outright being a dickhead (bigotry, personal insults to members, etc.).

To everyone; if you disagree with someone's opinion, say so in the actual thread. Don't hide behind anonymous negative rep. Give them a chance to explain themselves.

 

[Justin Bailey]

The saddest part about that is the fact that they even feel the need to run away. How about we spend the money on helping these people get here legally and become productive citizens rather than unleashing the gestapo (OMGZ WWII GERMANY COMPARISON!!!! As if conservatives have never made the same comparison ) on them and kicking them out?

 

[xiphoscesar]

Why, are you here illegally?

yes

 

[Customisbetter]

The saddest part about that is the fact that they even feel the need to run away. How about we spend the money on helping these people get here legally and become productive citizens rather than unleashing the gestapo (OMGZ WWII GERMANY COMPARISON!!!! As if conservatives have never made the same comparison ) on them and kicking them out?

Because the police are not the gestapo.

How about I just drive a van full of people into your driveway and walk into your house. We will use your toilet (A LOT) and occasionally replace the toilet paper roll.

You would probably feel violated. You would probably scream at us to get out. You would probably use force after we fucking ignore you and evade your grasp.

If you cannot see the connection between these two situations, then unfortunately you are not very intelligent.

 

[jymellis]

yes

you can stay with me then

 

[gunshow86de]

yes

Why not apply for legal status? Based on you being here (the forums), I assume you had the resources to buy a computer, learn English, pay for internet, and pay for guitar gear, which would lead me to believe that you have the resources to apply for citizenship.

I'm not trying to pass judgment; but I'm curious what your reason is for staying illegal?

 

[orb451]

I understand the law is targeted toward suspected undocumented immigrants; and theoretically, the only way of knowing someone's status would be to ask. However, most people already put a face on what they consider a suspect. Therefore, would be unlikely that African-Americans or Asians who get stopped will be asked to show proof of legal stay in the country as much as Hispanics.

Lastly, many have not mention that fact that the law does not only target undocumented immigrants but also citizens who shelter of transport them.

Targeted "toward suspected undocumented immigrants"? That's a really nice way of saying "targeting people that are breaking the law". Is there a law on the books regarding immigration? Yes. Are these people breaking the law? Yes. They're not undocumented, they're breaking the law.

And you're damned right people put a "face on what they consider a suspect". I know it's really unpopular to think the way I do, but you know what, oh fucking well. The reason they have that "face" is due to them (the illegal immigrants) and not us. I'm sure there's probably thousands of illegal immigrants from Canada, Europe, Africa and Asia, but there's MILLIONS from Mexico alone, let alone other Latin countries.

That's where the face comes from, that's why they're targeting them and that's why if an illegal immigrant (from Mexico) is in AZ, they should be worried. They *should* have been worried a long time ago, but because ICE didn't get the job done, cops turned a blind eye because they could and because employers and the state government were more than happy to pay for their healthcare, education, food and shelter they weren't worried.

Oh but don't make any fucking effort to blame the illegal immigrants breaking the laws. Let's lay all the blame on the broken system and the warm fuzzy rhetorical bullshit about them and their dreams of streets paved with gold.

And for the record, while I vehemently disagree with a few of the posters in this and other threads, I have not and will not neg rep anyone for a difference of opinion, or for that matter a personal attack.

 

[xiphoscesar]

you can stay with me then

haha thanks that means alot eve though your just playing around
shows how nice people are

Why not apply for legal status? Based on you being here (the forums), I assume you had the resources to buy a computer, learn English, pay for internet, and pay for guitar gear, which would lead me to believe that you have the resources to apply for citizenship.

I'm not trying to pass judgment; but I'm curious what your reason is for staying illegal?

well actually im living with my uncle here,
i would but im scared to death when it comes to applying
im afriad their going to find out where i live and deport me
my english has gotten lots better, i still have to use google to find out definition of some words on here

as for the computer and internet my uncle pays for it since he has a stable job
i get hired in places to clean up, wait tables at mexican restaurants, and to restock items in local stores
so thats how i make money for my gear(which isnt much)
im working toward legalization, and my uncle and i are currently talking about that right now

also i dont work in peter pipers, i used that as a cover up for when people ask where i work

 

[Mexi]

lol @ everyone complaining about illegals taking their jobs.

people should be pointing the finger elsewhere, like the employers that actively seek and employ illegal workers with NO OBLIGATION whatsoever to even pay them. So as long as companies profit from the use and abuse of illegal labour, the mexicans who risk everything to work in the U.S are not to blame.

 

[gunshow86de]

lol @ everyone complaining about illegals taking their jobs.

people should be pointing the finger elsewhere, like the employers that actively seek and employ illegal workers with NO OBLIGATION whatsoever to even pay them. So as long as companies profit from the use and abuse of illegal labour, the mexicans who risk everything to work in the U.S are not to blame.

I don't think anyone has the "they took 'er jobbssss!" mentality (at least I hope not). I definitely agree, more needs to be done to punish businesses for hiring illegals. But, at the end of the day, the illegals did make the conscious decision to break the law and take residence in this country illegally. Just like with breaking any law, if they are caught, they should be prepared to face the consequences.

 

[gunshow86de]

well actually im living with my uncle here,
i would but im scared to death when it comes to applying
im afriad their going to find out where i live and deport me
my english has gotten lots better, i still have to use google to find out definition of some words on here

as for the computer and internet my uncle pays for it since he has a stable job
i get hired in places to clean up, wait tables at mexican restaurants, and to restock items in local stores
so thats how i make money for my gear(which isnt much)
im working toward legalization, and my uncle and i are currently talking about that right now

also i dont work in peter pipers, i used that as a cover up for when people ask where i work

Can you be deported if you apply for citizenship after you've been here? I'd think there would be (or should be) some amnesty for trying to do the right thing. I wonder if that could be classified as entrapment?

To be clear, I'm not against having new immigrants. Quite the contrary, I'd welcome anyone who is here legitimately.

Best of luck to you in getting that sorted and hope you can stay in the clear until you do.

 

[xiphoscesar]

Can you be deported if you apply for citizenship after you've been here? I'd think there would be (or should be) some amnesty for trying to do the right thing. I wonder if that could be classified as entrapment?

To be clear, I'm not against having new immigrants. Quite the contrary, I'd welcome anyone who is here legitimately.

Best of luck to you in getting that sorted and hope you can stay in the clear until you do.

i couldnt understand(googled words too) some of what you said due to my still learning of my english but thank you

 

[gunshow86de]

i couldnt understand(googled words too) some of what you said due to my still learning of my english but thank you

I was basically saying that someone who is applying for citizenship shouldn't be deported for trying to do the right thing.