10 more states concidering Immigration Laws!!!!

[orb451]

The Arizona law does not target individuals who broke the law at all, it targets those who suspected of being there illegally. How on earth do you determine if someone is there illegally if it weren't for some criteria based on what an illegal immigrant "looks like"? i.e, not white

So while I don't think it's the U.S' responsibility to solve the world's problems (though the U.S government seems very selective on where it decides to stick its nose), they are responsible for facilitating the use of illegal labor through poorly regulated immigration laws.

How do you determine if someone is here illegally? Simple. Driver's License please? Oh you don't have that, Green Card please? Oh you don't have that. State or federally issued ID card? Oh you don't have that... and on ad nauseum.

I think they (law enforcement) will be taking in the totality of the circumstances when asking/determining whether someone is here legally or illegally. And yes, in AZ anyway, I think they're perfectly justified in profiling, as most of the illegal immigrants there are Mexican. I doubt they've got a rush of Swedish illegals flying in from Stockholm and I doubt they've got swaths of Cambodians floating in from across the Pacific.

 

[Murmel]

I doubt they've got a rush of Swedish illegals flying in from Stockholm

Fly?
We cross the arctic, then go down Canada riding our great polar bears into the US.

 

[gunshow86de]

The Arizona law does not target individuals who broke the law at all, it targets those who suspected of being there illegally. How on earth do you determine if someone is there illegally if it weren't for some criteria based on what an illegal immigrant "looks like"? i.e, not white.

The police still need reasonable suspicion to question anyone. It's not too difficult to find the obvious illegals. I guarantee the police already know every common location where illegals loiter while waiting for work. Would you still object to a policeman questioning a Hispanic looking person who has been loitering outside a Home Depot with 20-30 other individuals? It's not difficult to realize that those people are here illegally.

Honestly though, if someone looks Hispanic, has a strong Mexican accent, and can barely speak English; don't you think that's enough grounds to suspect they are here illegally? I mean let's use common sense. Where do you think the illegal immigrants living along the US-Mexico border are coming from?

 

[orb451]

Fly?
We cross the arctic, then go down Canada riding our great polar bears into the US.

 

[Mexi]

Honestly though, if someone looks Hispanic, has a strong Mexican accent, and can barely speak English; don't you think that's enough grounds to suspect they are here illegally? I mean let's use common sense. Where do you think the illegal immigrants living along the US-Mexico border are coming from?

You just proved my point right there. Just because someone hasn't learned to speak English doesn't mean they are in the U.S illegally. Fortunately its not a requirement (though it could certainly make things easier) to have a comprehensive understanding of the language in order to reside in the U.S, legal or not. Here in Canada there are tons of communities, not just Hispanic ones, that have a fair population that cannot speak the language. It is irresponsible to assume that someones lack of knowledge about the language is equated with a perceived illegality of them being there in the first place.

My biggest gripe is that the authorities have constantly tried to spin this law to suggest it is NOT RACIAL, when in fact, ALL the criteria of suspicious behaviour invariably comes down to what someone looks like. If there were 20-30 white guys standing outside a Home Depot, you would not assume that they're illegal, in fact you'd think they were legitimate contractors or whatever. There are many illegal immigrants of European descent (and shit tons of Canadians), but for some reason people seem to forget that and portray 100% of illegal immigrants as ignorant Mexicans which only deepens the racial divide and creates even more resentment towards the status quo. It doesn't matter if most of the illegals in AZ are of Hispanic background or not, racial profiling should not be tolerated in any democratic society. Laws like these are extremely short-sighted and seriously damage the reputation of the U.S (even moreso) as a place of intolerance. Hopefully the unconstitutionality of unlawful search and seizure laws get brought to the courts and addressed properly.

 

[orb451]

hopefully the unconstitutionality of unlawful search and seizure laws get brought to the courts and addressed properly.

They won't. Because the laws specifically prohibit LEOs from demanding "papers" from anyone and everyone just for the fuck of it. They have to have probable cause and they have to have proper lawful contact with a suspect. But since some people believe whole heartedly that ALL of the cops, damned near everywhere, are evil, moustache twisting sadists hell bent on making peoples lives difficult - especially "darkies" - then of course all this law is going to do is make Mexican's lives hell.

Jesus Christ.

Read the fucking bill yourselves people. I did. I didn't see anything in there that's out of line. Have you read it? It's only 17 pages. All the bitching about what the law will and won't do and I'll bet 99% of you haven't read the whole thing. Not only that, all the bitching about employers, all the whining about how it's not illegal immigrants' fault, it's the cold, ruthless employers that fuck them over with slave wages and how the bill doesn't address that issue. Well guess what? It's in there. It's in the bill. SB1070 outlines what happens to employers that knowingly and unknowingly employ illegal immigrants. Not only that, it also outlines penalties for the Home Depot crowds that wait for work AND the people that drive up and hire them.

EDIT: Here's the link for those who actually, you know, want to KNOW what the fuck you're talking about with respect to AZ's law:

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Warning, PDF in the link above. Information may not be safe for working minds.

 

[gunshow86de]

You just proved my point right there. Just because someone hasn't learned to speak English doesn't mean they are in the U.S illegally. Fortunately its not a requirement (though it could certainly make things easier) to have a comprehensive understanding of the language in order to reside in the U.S, legal or not. Here in Canada there are tons of communities, not just Hispanic ones, that have a fair population that cannot speak the language. It is irresponsible to assume that someones lack of knowledge about the language is equated with a perceived illegality of them being there in the first place.

My biggest gripe is that the authorities have constantly tried to spin this law to suggest it is NOT RACIAL, when in fact, ALL the criteria of suspicious behaviour invariably comes down to what someone looks like. If there were 20-30 white guys standing outside a Home Depot, you would not assume that they're illegal, in fact you'd think they were legitimate contractors or whatever. There are many illegal immigrants of European descent (and shit tons of Canadians), but for some reason people seem to forget that and portray 100% of illegal immigrants as ignorant Mexicans which only deepens the racial divide and creates even more resentment towards the status quo. It doesn't matter if most of the illegals in AZ are of Hispanic background or not, racial profiling should not be tolerated in any democratic society. Laws like these are extremely short-sighted and seriously damage the reputation of the U.S (even moreso) as a place of intolerance. Hopefully the unconstitutionality of unlawful search and seizure laws get brought to the courts and addressed properly.

So what is your suggestion? Should we just hope that all the illegal immigrants turn themselves in or go back to Mexico?

Look, I don't expect every Hispanic person living in a border state to be fluent in English. But I find that most legal immigrants can speak enough English to have basic communication, just like I can speak just enough Spanish for basic communication.

My point is; if you are trying to find illegal immigrants there is no better place to start than the ones who have a high probability of being illegal; that means Hispanic people who can't speak English. More importantly, there are certain places and behaviors which would make someone appear to be illegal; such as waiting outside a hardware store to be picked up for day labor.

Nothing about this law is racially motivated. I don't see anyone on here advocating that the US should harass and get rid of all Hispanic peoples.

If you want to work towards solving the problem of illegal immigration, then I think this bill is the most logical start. It doesn't require legal immigrants to carry any paper work they aren't already required to carry, and it allows all law enforcement officials (not just I.N.S./border patrol agents) to perform an investigation to a suspected alien's immigration status. If they conclusively find that person has taken residence illegally, then they are allowed to transport that person to a Federal facility to be processed for deportation.

Basically, it allows police to enforce the law. If I'm not mistaken, that is their job. I don't see anything "Unconstitutional" about this law, provided the police have a reasonable suspicion to warrant a search. But maybe that's just me.

 

[Nights_Blood]

Not to mention traffic accidents with uninsured illegal aliens,[/QUOTE]

This. I speak from personal experience. Well, almost. The guy (who was at fault) had no US license. I was scared shitless for a moment, then discovered he had insurance.

Not to disagree with you, but keep in mind there are more people than just immigrant that do this (dumb teenagers, stupid people in general, etc.)

Actually out here in SoCal a lot of the illegal immigrants game the system to get benefits. My wife is a social worker and handles Spanish speaking (READ: Latino) families involved in child abuse and domestic violence. What ends up happening is that the father beats the mom, someone calls the cops, my wife gets called in to investigate, dad goes to jail, mom's got 2 kids, is here illegally and has no way to support herself. So since she can't get benefits directly, but her kids can, she collects on their behalf and pockets the $$$. The kids suffer, mom doesn't have to work and in most cases pumps out a few more kids to increase her monthly income by whomever is willing.

I agree that *some* are here to work, and work their asses off. Though in AZ and Cali, that's more the exception than the rule and it's them (the illegals), the employers that exploit them and the system that panders to them that keeps all this in motion. If we could start by screening the convicted felons out of the lot, then offer conditional amnesty to the rest, I'd be all for it, but as in the other thread, the amnesty is conditional and not just a free pass to come in and sit on your ass.

Even though she's not illegal, Nadya Suleman (octomom) comes to mind. Not the best example, but probably the most visible.

 

[Xaios]

Fly?
We cross the arctic, then go down Canada riding our great polar bears into the US.

Lies! Time and again, we successfully keep you at bay with our hockey playe... er, arctic kinetic energy high-impact rubber puck turrets!

 

[Murmel]

Lies! Time and again, we successfully keep you at bay with our hockey playe... er, arctic kinetic energy high-impact rubber puck turrets!

Fortunately we have one of the worlds best national hockey teams so I think we can manage

 

[Xaios]

Fortunately we have one of the worlds best national hockey teams so I think we can manage

YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!!

 

[gunshow86de]

YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!!

If that's Luongo, then we all better be worried. Might be time to bring Roy out of retirement.

 

[Xaios]

Eh, so he wasn't so hot during the playoffs. It's the Canucks, what else is new.

He DID, however, backstop Canada to GOOOOOOOOLD, after Brodeur choked.

 

[tacotiklah]

Off topic posts are going off topic.

Im so disappointed in Ca not only not considering these laws, but actively protesting against other states that do it. *shakes head*
Thats like letting thieves in your house and then bitching at any good samaritan that tries to stop them. Its just crazy.

Flame me all you want, but I hold a lot of blame on illegal immigration for damn near bankrupting Ca's economy. It has always been a problem, but now its gotten far worse. Most of my work experience is in the food industry. In my last job (walmart) 14 out of 16 assistant managers were hispanic. Dont you find that a bit fucking much? Out of the other 2, 1 was black and the other white. NO Asians, No middle easterners. What drives me fucking nuts about it the most is the clique mentality that a lot of latinos have. Ive been discriminated at more than one job because they dont want to work with "gringos". They have the mentality that all white people are lazy gluttonous fat fucks that just like bitch about things. Never mind the fact that I fucking worked circles around them, they still gave their 'familia' the raises and the promotions and left me covering the shifts for their lazy asses. (including doing the jobs of a much higher pay grade while only getting paid my normal shit wage)

So yeah Ive got a real beef. Why the hell should I have to learn spanish to get a job in a primarily English speaking country? How about THEY learn some fucking English and blend in with the country they seem to want to be in so damn badly. Open up the local phone booth and you'll see no less than 50 (yes you read that right, FIFTY) mexican restaurants just in my area alone. I call them and they flat out tell you that you have to be hispanic to work there. Hell a couple of them couldnt even speak English and put me on hold so they could find someone to tell me "Sorry, but we prefer to hire latinos as it re-enforces the hispanic theme of the restaurant". And to think this gringo was racist for wanting a fair shot at the things too....

 

[Homebrew1709]

Yea I don't really see an issue with the law. And to compare it to Nazi Germany is grossly inaccurate and pretty damn offensive. No one is saying it's illegal to not be American or to immigrate to America...it's just illegal to do it illegally . It's really not a difficult concept. There are plenty of things that can be done in this country legally or illegally such as: own a firearm, get prescription drugs, drive a car, drink alcohol, etc... Most people are fully aware when they are breaking a law and they ought to accept that there are consequences for doing so. Sorry, I just had to