5150 w/JC-120 vs Sig X

[mike0]

hi everybody! i have a 5150 now, and the sound isn't really sticking wit me. don't get me wrong, i love the distortion and tone i can get out of it, i think that the problem is that it just doesn't do enough (i.e. not enough versatility), and it doesn't seem tight enough (maybe i'm just being really picky). i was originally going to buy a JC-120 and AB them together so that i can actually get a nice clean tone, and pick up an od808 an possibly a BBE 422 to try and tighten up the tone a little while giving it a little more oomph.

i have recently run into a deal where i could sell the 5150 for 800, and in turn pick up a Sig X for 1200. i'm really liking all of the features of the Sig X, and although i haven't had the chance to actually play one (no place around me has it), i have played a deliverance, and i loved it. i figured the Sig X would be the best way to go since i heard it can reach a similar tone to that of a deliverance. i'd get a deliverance but it's only one channel and doesn't have an fx loop

the tone i am looking for is something between protest the hero and in flames. i am aware that Luke from protest has used Sig X's and Jesper from in flames used 5150/6505s when he was still with them. so pretty much i am looking for which rig could get me in the middle ground, and can also get me warm, thick, jazzy tones when clean. any amp suggestions that are under 1500 are welcome too.

 

[pathos45]

they are two compleatly diffrent beasts. The sig x will give you more versitily wheres the 5150 does one good thing adn thats the wall of distortion it does and does it well. I say just from having a 5150/6505+ and a vht pitbull cl100 i say the vht any of the vht/fryette are very tight dry amps but are fucking killer. If you can find one for 1200 scoop it up they can go from anywheres from 1200-1800 so if you do decide to sell it you can make some money back and a profit.

 

[mike0]

yeah i know what you mean. the only thing keeping me from selling it right away without inquiring is that i love that one good sound i can get out of it. well that, and that i wouldn't have the money to buy the Sig X until about 2 weeks, so i might as well hang on to it until then.

is it possible to get a 5150-esque type of distortion out of a Sig X? whether just from the amps settings or from outside variables (boost/eq pedals, rackmounts, etc.)

 

[7slinger]

I've had both of these in the past.

In all honesty, I think I liked the 5150 more than the Sig:X. I was never able to get a good balance volume wise between the 2 gain channels on the VHT. The tone is alot different from the 5150, and while I wasn't trying to emulate the 5150 tone I think it would have been a stretch to emulate it. The 5150 has way more bottom end IMO than the Sig:X. The clean channel on the VHT is superior, but I'm sure you know that already.

To be fair, I never got to try the Sig:X with p50s, and I've heard the amp is finicky with speakers and sounds best with the VHT ones. I used it with 2 Recto 4x12s, v30s in one and c90s in the other.

I sold mine for less than $1200, and while I haven't checked the used prices on them since I sold mine, I don't think $1200 is that screamin of a deal. 5150s on the other hand I see go for $500-$600, and sometimes even a little less than $500! If I were you and had somebody on the line willing to pay $800 for the 5150, I'd sell it whether I was certain on it's replacement or not.

my 2c

 

[Rook]

JC120 cleans, though a great thing, you have to really want, and you have to be a super clean player because they don't hide anything at all.

I love my 160 to pieces, but you gotta be right on the money. For casual and non-jazzy playing, the cleans on my Roadster are much better.

I also don't like 5150's much.

Therefore my vote is for the Sig X, I think they're great if you like that sound.

 

[mike0]

well i am heading up to guitar center tomorrow to try out this p50e loaded vht 4x12 (i'm pretty sure it's a FB), since i don't really have a nice cab i am really looking forward to playing it and possibly picking it up next weekend. i figure that it will go great with my 5150 (i've played it through a orange 2x12 with v30s and it sounded good, just not as good i thought it should be, so a vht cab could only be as good if not better... right?), and if i do eventually decide to sell the peavey for the Sig X then i will have the perfect cab to go with it.

i wish i had a way to gauge the used price for the Sig X though, i could only find one out of everywhere i've looked. maybe i'm not looking in the right places; i've tried ebay, craiglist, guitar center, and musiciansfriend. any others i should look at?

 

[mike0]

JC120 cleans, though a great thing, you have to really want, and you have to be a super clean player because they don't hide anything at all.

I love my 160 to pieces, but you gotta be right on the money. For casual and non-jazzy playing, the cleans on my Roadster are much better.

I also don't like 5150's much.

Therefore my vote is for the Sig X, I think they're great if you like that sound.

good point. i think i'm going to dedicate this weekend to scouring all of the shops in my area for these amps so that i can try them out first. i doubt i'll find any of them, but it doesn't hurt to try

 

[evilsaint]

I had a 5150 before. When I was testing both Sig:X and Deliverance in the same time,
I feel Deliverance can deliver a better metal sound than Sig:X.
Deliverance has higher gain and tighter in bottom end.
Sig:X is a great amp with all those functions, but I just can't get enough gain from Sig:X alone.

I don't think you can get a 5150-esque type of distortion out of a Sig X.

 

[mike0]

bummer. you think that it would be possible to get a nice beefy high gain tone out of a Sig X using a boost pedal or something? if it were possible to get that kind of tone out of it then i'd be set. pretty much the way i see it is that the 5150 and Sig X are like opposites for my needs, the Sig has all of the features i would want out of an amp (near endless amounts of eq tweakability, great clean tone, tight distortion; seemingly not as heavy as i'd like it to be though), and the 5150 has everything i'd want out of the gain on an amp (the gain is goddamn amazing when playing the right type of music, only problem is that it isn't as tight and clear as i'd like). are there any amps that have all of this rolled up into one that is reasonably priced? i've looked into a Titan Cerberus and Soldano SLO 100, but those are far out of my price range.

also, Fun111, what do you mean by "that" sound?

 

[Curt]

As much as I dig VHT's(my friends Pitbull 50 is a monster!) It's just not going to cut it if you're into that 5150 type sound.

I haven't tried one, but reviews, clips, and people I talk to who say that the ENGL Invader is a really good and versatile amp that can get Really heavy tight tones and the cleans are really good from some clips i've heard.

The ENGL Blackmore is a very good amp and can get that kind of grinding tone like the 5150 on channel 3 if you EQ it right and the cleans are pretty damn good as well.

Invader 150 is like 2900
Invader 100 is like 2850
Blackmore is 1700

 

[mike0]

What's the used price on those, approximately? New is definitely out of the question for me, and i think id have the same problem with them as i do with most other good amps: i can't seem to find them for sale anywhere :/

 

[7slinger]

if I were you I'd check out a 5150III. still has an awesome gain channel that I prefered over my VHT (I didn't own the 5150III but tried one out several times) along with 2 other very good channels

those sell new for $2000, I bet used they could be found for about what you're willing to spend on the VHT

 

[Curt]

What's the used price on those, approximately? New is definitely out of the question for me, and i think id have the same problem with them as i do with most other good amps: i can't seem to find them for sale anywhere :/

I've seen used blackmores go for 1200-1500. I did see one guy on craigslist selling one for 1600(literally 100 dollars off the price of one new) most go for 1300-1400 if you can find one for 1200, i'd suggest it.

as for Invaders, even used I believe those are still in the 2300-2500 price mark used...

the Savage's i've seen on the used market are anywhere from 1500(if you're lucky) -2000. I've seen tons of them go for around 1600-1700 though.

speaking of used amps on the market, I was just looking up some DAR stuff and found the 50 Watt Tuzzia head used on craigslist for 1500 dunno how the tuzzia's sound, but I dig the Forza Quattro..

Linky

 

[mike0]

Ill try and check them out if i can find any. The only engl ive seen anywhere near me was a broken powerball at a local guitar center, so sadly i didnt get to try it. I think for the time being im gonna stick with the 5150, maybe in a month or two i will look into other heads if i can find any to try and are reasonably priced. I appreciate all of the help and suggestions guys, thanks!

 

[noob_pwn]

5150III should be perfect for you dude. To my ears it's a little more pure sounding than the old 5150/6505 with smaller low end and it has fender cleans

 

[mike0]

From the clips ive heard it sounds great, i'd love to try one. If i can find a good deal on one then ill definitely try and snatch it up

 

[MTech]

I never was one to care for the 5150 unless you want that Swedish Metal sound... I loved the Sig-X but the guy at VHT even said at NAMM "it's like all the amps into one but it also has the ability to sound like shit because today's players like a looser responding amp." It was great to hear somebody brutally honest..and you're all thinking "Wait..we all wanna sound tight." But that was exactly his point....a lot of guys get on a VHT and since they're so tight and dry people that have poor technique instantly sound like total shit and then blame the amp.
If you're going to take suggestions since people are throwing Engl into the mix etc... the only amp that really stood out for me at NAMM this year is the new Blackstar 140-6L6 it's got 4 channels, 6 modes an amazing clean and it's got a more gain then anyone should need but while retaining clarity and crunch. They've held up putting out the model till May because they're tweaking the 4th channel on the head from what I was told.The Prototype at NAMM was killer, and Devil Driver are touring with the other 2 Prototypes, those guys were raving about them at the show as well.

 

[Curt]

I never was one to care for the 5150 unless you want that Swedish Metal sound... I loved the Sig-X but the guy at VHT even said at NAMM "it's like all the amps into one but it also has the ability to sound like shit because today's players like a looser responding amp." It was great to hear somebody brutally honest..and you're all thinking "Wait..we all wanna sound tight." But that was exactly his point....a lot of guys get on a VHT and since they're so tight and dry people that have poor technique instantly sound like total shit and then blame the amp.
If you're going to take suggestions since people are throwing Engl into the mix etc... the only amp that really stood out for me at NAMM this year is the new Blackstar 140-6L6 it's got 4 channels, 6 modes an amazing clean and it's got a more gain then anyone should need but while retaining clarity and crunch. They've held up putting out the model till May because they're tweaking the 4th channel on the head from what I was told.The Prototype at NAMM was killer, and Devil Driver are touring with the other 2 Prototypes, those guys were raving about them at the show as well.

The thing about VHT's is spot on.

If you have poor technique, on a dryer sounding amp such as a VHT/Freyette, you WILL sound bad. I personally thought I sounded good through my friends Pittbull 50.

Well, let me rephrase that...

For what I typically play, being anything from A Day To Remember like "Pop-Mosh" to more Melodeath stylings. I sounded good, I thought.

But my sweeping technique that through my Axe Fx I THOUGHT I was doing fairly well at cleaning up. STILL sounded like ass through the Pittbull.

It's a very humbling amp, more so than most other amps on the market, and ESPECIALLY the Axe Fx which tends to flatter your technique a little, in my experience.

I joke with him that I ought to borrow it as to work on my technique more. But he wouldn't part with that amp even for a day it wouldn't matter if you payed him 3 times what he bought it for!


Edit: hence why i'm going with an ENGL invader I like a tight sound, but the slight bit more saturation of the ENGL seems like it would mask my crappy lead playing techniques, which I will continue working on..

 

[mike0]

I completely understand that, if anything it makes me want a VHT/Fryette that much more

when i played through a deliverance i honestly dont remember sounding that bad, but i probably just have a really bad memory. I feel like an amp that will help improve my guitar playing is a huge bonus on top of it being a great amp. Hopefully in the near future ill make the decision to pick one up, if i feel like i need something different than the 5150

 

[MTech]

I wasn't fond of the Deliverance..I see it kind've having that niche guys who worship the 5150 will love...but then even at that rate you see those dudes go back to the 5150..the Deliverance has this bark/bite to it unlike any other amp and it's just too harsh to me. Engl's I still never liked, I play one and I think it sounds pretty good but extremely saturated and certain models very SS...but I have yet to hear a band play one that really cuts..they just get buried in the mix and cost a fortune. I think that's why a lot of their guys are jumping ship and to no surprise they're all seeming to go to what I'd suggested earlier, the Blackstar's...what sold me more was after returning home from NAMM hearing the video where they tracked an 8 string direct through the emulated out of the back of one of their heads so it's not even mic'd...most amps sound not so great with an 8 but this sounds pretty damn good.