6505+112 Combo vs MH

[Eden]

Hey guys, first time poster here.

I've been rocking a peavey 6505+112 combo for a while now, and I love it, but I feel like it's too much power that I need just for practicing, I jam often, but not crazy often because school. I've been looking into the 6505MH lately, and one popped up used at my local Guitar Center. Would I be well off switching to the head and getting a cab? I noticed the mini-head has a bright switch, which my combo does not, are there any other big differences?

 

[Sleazy_D]

No experience with the combo but I have the MH and play it through a 1x12 panama or a 2x12 recto cab, and it is glorious. I'd say go for it.

 

[Eden]

I'm very tempted, because there's also a 2x12 boogie cab available used. Also, how's the headphone output on this amp?

 

[CapnForsaggio]

I'm very tempted, because there's also a 2x12 boogie cab available used. Also, how's the headphone output on this amp?

As good as any... it's meh/. I just hate using head phones for guitar, can't hear the metronome.

Cab simulated output is also meh. Cuts off hard at about 6K (not enough top end, IMHO).

The amp sounds delicious through a nice cab though.

 

[takotakumi]

I had that same combo and to make more suitable for apt living I stuck a MXR 10 band Eq on the loop to which I reduced the Vol and Gain levels to minimum. That way you could cook up the tubes on the amp more but would still be able to play at low volumes without loosing that saturation you get from turning up the power section.

At first I swapped the stock speaker to a Celestion V30 and eventually bought a Mesa 4x12 to pair with the combo, making it a head haha. That rig ROARED.

I would only suggest swapping it if you dont like carrying a heavy combo around, cause it seems you want to swap for something smaller even though the combo you have already does the practice part pretty well. Tone could be improved by "upgrading" to what you suggested.

With that been said, your idea of using the mini head + Mesa 2x12 sounds glorious. I really dug the 6505+Mesa Tone I was getting. Its going to sound so much better than what you are getting now.

Sorry if I derailed from the topic hehe

 

[KailM]

6L6s > EL 84s; especially for metal.

IMO you'd be incurring a downgrade. If you want to upgrade what you have, convert it into a head (it's easy) and get yourself a 2X12 cab.

And as takotakumi said, get an MXR 10-band or Boss GE-7 EQ for the loop, and boost it with an OD of some sort.

I play through a 4 X 12 cab and have never had any issues whatsoever getting an epic bedroom tone. And when I need "oomph" -- that's where it will blow the MH out of the water.

 

[mnemonic]

Regarding the bright switch - it's my understanding that the regular 6505's have a bright cap permenently wired in, so I'm guessing for the MH, they just made it switchable so you could turn it off if you want.

 

[DarthV]

Are you sure the MH is going to have a more usable tone at lower volumes? Always nice to have more headroom for jamming, I'd stick with the combo. Maybe swap out the stock speaker...or snag that used mesa 2x12

 

[maggotspawn]

Another vote for keeping what you have and running an EQ in the loop.
I do this with my 6505+ for practicing.

 

[Eden]

I had that same combo and to make more suitable for apt living I stuck a MXR 10 band Eq on the loop to which I reduced the Vol and Gain levels to minimum. That way you could cook up the tubes on the amp more but would still be able to play at low volumes without loosing that saturation you get from turning up the power section.

At first I swapped the stock speaker to a Celestion V30 and eventually bought a Mesa 4x12 to pair with the combo, making it a head haha. That rig ROARED.

I would only suggest swapping it if you dont like carrying a heavy combo around, cause it seems you want to swap for something smaller even though the combo you have already does the practice part pretty well. Tone could be improved by "upgrading" to what you suggested.

With that been said, your idea of using the mini head + Mesa 2x12 sounds glorious. I really dug the 6505+Mesa Tone I was getting. Its going to sound so much better than what you are getting now.

Sorry if I derailed from the topic hehe

Throwing an EQ in the FX loop? I've never even heard of that before, but it seems that that is a popular idea here so I might actually give that a shot. What I'm also really taking out of this is that I should at the very least get that mesa 2x12 . So I might do that, and score an EQ pedal. Dumb question, but would that put any stress on the EQ or amp?

 

[KailM]

No, an EQ or a different cab will not put any stress on the amp whatsoever. However, if you're running a different cab, unplug the existing speaker. If you get the Mesa cab, just make sure you set the amp to match the Ohms listed on the cab. Don't try to run both the combo speaker and a 2X12 cab unless you're sure the amp is seeing the proper load (which, if I'm not mistaken, is difficult to achieve by running three speakers).

As for the EQ in the loop -- I could go on all day about that. A lot of people overlook it and/or are against it for some reason -- but it is an amazing tool for turning an already great tone into something outrageous. The 6505/5150 series of amp greatly benefits from an EQ in the loop, and I think it would be hard to find an amp that couldn't also benefit in some way. Mesa's Mark series features an EQ built-in to the amp that affects the tone in the same way as an EQ pedal in the loop of other amps does. The reason to put it there in the circuit is that it makes its changes post-distortion -- so it takes your existing distortion tone and can add to what you like and take away what you don't like. The built-in EQ on most amps doesn't affect the tone as drastically. And an EQ in front of the amp most certainly doesn't.

For starters, 5150s in general have a lot of fizz in the upper treble area that can't be dialed out with the amp's EQ. But an EQ in the loop gives you control over that area (16khz on my MXR 10-band). By cutting that slider, I get searing highs and treble, with NONE of the fizz. I also cut the "middle" mids (500hz) and have found that to increase the focus of the amp, as well as get rid of too much in that frequency band. Finally, I boost the 125hz slider (high bass) and cut everything below that, which enhances the "thump" the amp has on palm mutes without making it muddy or "loose." You cannot achieve the same thing by turning the bass and resonance up on the amp -- it just gets muddy and loose.

 

[Eden]

No, an EQ or a different cab will not put any stress on the amp whatsoever. However, if you're running a different cab, unplug the existing speaker. If you get the Mesa cab, just make sure you set the amp to match the Ohms listed on the cab. Don't try to run both the combo speaker and a 2X12 cab unless you're sure the amp is seeing the proper load (which, if I'm not mistaken, is difficult to achieve by running three speakers).

As for the EQ in the loop -- I could go on all day about that. A lot of people overlook it and/or are against it for some reason -- but it is an amazing tool for turning an already great tone into something outrageous. The 6505/5150 series of amp greatly benefits from an EQ in the loop, and I think it would be hard to find an amp that couldn't also benefit in some way. Mesa's Mark series features an EQ built-in to the amp that affects the tone in the same way as an EQ pedal in the loop of other amps does. The reason to put it there in the circuit is that it makes its changes post-distortion -- so it takes your existing distortion tone and can add to what you like and take away what you don't like. The built-in EQ on most amps doesn't affect the tone as drastically. And an EQ in front of the amp most certainly doesn't.

For starters, 5150s in general have a lot of fizz in the upper treble area that can't be dialed out with the amp's EQ. But an EQ in the loop gives you control over that area (16khz on my MXR 10-band). By cutting that slider, I get searing highs and treble, with NONE of the fizz. I also cut the "middle" mids (500hz) and have found that to increase the focus of the amp, as well as get rid of too much in that frequency band. Finally, I boost the 125hz slider (high bass) and cut everything below that, which enhances the "thump" the amp has on palm mutes without making it muddy or "loose." You cannot achieve the same thing by turning the bass and resonance up on the amp -- it just gets muddy and loose.

When you put it like that, I'm really interested with throwing an eq in the loop, so I'll definitely consider getting one soon. While I'm moving away from getting the MH, I did go ahead and spring for the Mesa cab and I am pretty happy with it! The only thing is now I definitely am well endowed with power, so getting that eq will probably become a necessity if I want to use the combo with it at all, or get a smaller amp

 

[KailM]

When you put it like that, I'm really interested with throwing an eq in the loop, so I'll definitely consider getting one soon. While I'm moving away from getting the MH, I did go ahead and spring for the Mesa cab and I am pretty happy with it! The only thing is now I definitely am well endowed with power, so getting that eq will probably become a necessity if I want to use the combo with it at all, or get a smaller amp

Can't you just turn the volume down? I can run my 6505 120 WATT HEAD through my 4X12 without waking my toddler. And it sounds great. I do boost it with an OD and compensate by turning the gain on the amp down -- do you do that? Unboosted, they do tend to need to be considerably louder before the muddiness goes away.

And FWIW -- don't buy the EQ to make it sound better at lower volumes, buy it because it can make it sound better period. The whole "dial the EQ slider down so you can push the master volume of the amp up and cook the tubes" thing is a gimmick and I don't agree that it does diddly-squat for your tone. That method does make your volume knob less sensitive though, so you can turn it a bit more before it goes from quiet to Holy Balls!

However, I've owned two MXR 10-bands and several 6505s for close to ten years and have tried that method a million times. I always end up going back to turning the volume slider back to "0" and just controlling my volume with the post gain knob. At the end of the day, it actually sounds very slightly more "muffled" by doing that, at least to my ears. In any case, the amp gets its tone primarily from the preamp, and you aren't going to get power tube distortion (or even like it if you get it) until the amp is nearly maxed out on volume [read: painful]. The post gain knob does have fine adjustment; you just have to be very careful with the knob. I also turn my bass and resonance down at lower volumes -- but that's not critical.

Anyhow, if you're concerned about low-volume tone, make sure you also pick up an OD pedal to boost it (and actually the boost isn't entirely what creates the desired effect necessarily, it's the bass cut inherent in most OD pedals that tightens everything up and makes it sound more focused and saturated.)

 

[Eden]

Can't you just turn the volume down? I can run my 6505 120 WATT HEAD through my 4X12 without waking my toddler. And it sounds great. I do boost it with an OD and compensate by turning the gain on the amp down -- do you do that? Unboosted, they do tend to need to be considerably louder before the muddiness goes away.

And FWIW -- don't buy the EQ to make it sound better at lower volumes, buy it because it can make it sound better period. The whole "dial the EQ slider down so you can push the master volume of the amp up and cook the tubes" thing is a gimmick and I don't agree that it does diddly-squat for your tone. That method does make your volume knob less sensitive though, so you can turn it a bit more before it goes from quiet to Holy Balls!

Anyhow, if you're concerned about low-volume tone, make sure you also pick up an OD pedal to boost it (and actually the boost isn't entirely what creates the desired effect necessarily, it's the bass cut inherent in most OD pedals that tightens everything up and makes it sound more focused and saturated.)

As of yet, I haven't had the chance to really put the cab through it's paces but I do have a ts9 I use as a boost, so with some tinkering I'm sure I can make it sound good

 

[KailM]

^^^The TS-9 works great -- I had one for a long time. Set level to max and gain at zero, then set your preamp gain to around 3-3.5 on the lead channel, and somewhere between 6-7 on the rhythm channel if you're using that channel for distortion.

With your EQ pedal, you can actually dial back in some of the bass you lose when using the TS-9, but it's a much "cleaner" low-end that stays tight thanks to the EQ sliders boosting only what has already been distorted, rather than giving the preamp a bunch of bass to distort later in the circuit (that's where muddiness comes from, primarily). I've found that a boost in the 125hz region really accentuates the "thump" on palm mutes but is not so low in frequency that it sounds loose or undefined. Give her a boost in either the 1khz or 2khz regions too -- that will amplify your mids and help it sound clearer and punchier too.

 

[Eden]

Got to mess around with the amp earlier, and I'm honestly pretty happy with the setup! The TS9 is basically gonna be my best friend now, but I also have Horizon's Precision Overdrive on the way so I'm kinda excited for how that will change things.