6505MH or PRS MT-15?

[Bandersnatch]

Id like to try these bedroom friendly 100 watt 6505 because i've never seen a 6505 or 6534 that actually sounds halfway decent with the volume not being cranked.

If your experience has been that they don't sound good at bedroom levels, that is completely subjective.

Any amp which shapes 99% of its tone in the preamp will sound good at bedroom levels, no matter the wattage rating. The argument is that at bedroom levels you don't need that kind of headroom so you may as well go with a smaller size amp to save yourself the space and weight, especially since a 15w, 25w or 50w amp will be more than enough to serve through bedroom, band practice and gig scenarios.

Speaking from experience, I run both a 15w and 50w amp and the 15w running through a 112 cab has been more than enough to play with a band. One thing to be aware of is that even if on paper, a 15w tube power amp and 15w solid state power amp will produce the same power output, there is a perceptible difference in volume from a tube power amp vs a solid state.

 

[MrWulf]

Well im getting a Revv 120 that also have a 10 watt mode so it is kinda moot for me haha

 

[DrakkarTyrannis]

Any amp which shapes 99% of its tone in the preamp will sound good at bedroom levels, no matter the wattage rating. The argument is that at bedroom levels you don't need that kind of headroom so you may as well go with a smaller size amp to save yourself the space and weight, especially since a 15w, 25w or 50w amp will be more than enough to serve through bedroom, band practice and gig scenarios.

Speaking from experience, I run both a 15w and 50w amp and the 15w running through a 112 cab has been more than enough to play with a band. One thing to be aware of is that even on paper, a 15w tube power amp and 15w solid state power amp (such as in the Joyo Zombie you ordered) will produce the same power output, there is a perceptible difference in volume from a tube power amp vs a solid state. So when you decide to either upgrade or just get a second amp, my suggestion is to make it all tube amp.

This.

Btw..I never even hear anyone try the "Well just pull 2 of the power tubes out" method of dropping wattage.

I say that to emphasize that in gear forums, getting a mini head is rarely about logic, it's just about getting something new and shiny and trying to justify it with silly reasons.

I've actually seen people claim they need an amp that is more low volume..so they get rid of their 6505 for the mini version or buy the mini along with their full sized.

 

[Bandersnatch]

This.

Btw..I never even hear anyone try the "Well just pull 2 of the power tubes out" method of dropping wattage.

I say that to emphasize that in gear forums, getting a mini head is rarely about logic, it's just about getting something new and shiny and trying to justify it with silly reasons.

I've actually seen people claim they need an amp that is more low volume..so they get rid of their 6505 for the mini version or buy the mini along with their full sized.

Slap those people with a purple dildo.

 

[DrakkarTyrannis]

Slap those people with a purple dildo.

That's been dipped in glitter first

 

[Millul]

This.

Btw..I never even hear anyone try the "Well just pull 2 of the power tubes out" method of dropping wattage.

I say that to emphasize that in gear forums, getting a mini head is rarely about logic, it's just about getting something new and shiny and trying to justify it with silly reasons.

I've actually seen people claim they need an amp that is more low volume..so they get rid of their 6505 for the mini version or buy the mini along with their full sized.

I had that done on my old Laney VHT100R - had a switch installed to exclude the 2 outer tubes, bringing it to 50W; no real changes in volume (maaayyyybe a quarter of a step on the master) but an overall darker sound, usually.

 

[Nightside]

Idk I actually owned a 6505+ half stack around 2006-7 and there is no way it was a bedroom amp. In my bedroom I had to have the hands of a surgeon to adjust the volume. It never went above 1. I tried to keep it between 1/4 and 1/2. I actually set it at 1 when I lugged it to my friend's basement studio and it was so ear bleeding loud that we had to sit in another room and use a long cable.

Seriously, I don't know what some people mean when they say "bedroom volume". For me it's not waking the person in the next room that shares a thin wall.

 

[nickgray]

hands of a surgeon

Afaik the solution to the pot taper issue is to simply run some kind of volume pot in the fx loop of the amp. It acts like a master volume control - it decides how much of the preamp output signal enters the power amp.

 

[DrakkarTyrannis]

Easier solution, buy a used xxx/jsx/Ultra120+

Bedroom,stage, whatever...it'll do it

 

[Nightside]

The best solution would be amp designers putting a master volume after the power amp controls. Preamp gain/volume, power amp volume, and an overall master volume for the whole thing.

 

[DrakkarTyrannis]

....or...just get a Peavey Ultra series and it'll do everything

 

[Nightside]

....or...just get a Peavey Ultra series and it'll do everything

Everything except not be huge af.

 

[DrakkarTyrannis]

Everything except not be huge af.

Shh. Be a man

 

[Nightside]

Well, an update here: I just ordered a Joyo Zombie II and a Harley Benton V30 loaded 1x12 cab from Thomann.
Stuff should be here within Thursday - for 300Eu, it should be a reasonable apartment rig.

If I end up not liking the Zombie, I can either return it or use it as a clean amp/poweramp (thank you, FX loops) and get a preamp pedal to my liking.
We'll see!

I just ordered mine this morning! I am going to give it a shot with my Blackstar 1x10 cab and if that is still too much I will order the little Joyo 1x8 cab to go with it. I may just do it anyway to make the little set complete and I can easily haul it back and forth between the bedroom and living room.

 

[Nightside]

Shh. Be a man

What does it even mean to be a man?

 

[DrakkarTyrannis]

What does it even mean to be a man?

Fuck if I know. I've never been one

 

[laxu]

People often mistake poor volume control for "this amp is really loud because it's X wattage".

I currently own the following amps:

• Victory VC35. It's like a Vox AC30 meets Matchless DC30 in a lunchbox format, with more gain on tap, better master volume and an fx loop. Switchable between 11 and 35W, fully cathode biased at 11W and a mix of fixed+cathode biased at 35W.
• Bogner Goldfinger 45 Superlead. Fender cleans, Marshall overdrive spanning Superlead to JCM800. Switchable between 15/23W or 30/45W for 2x6V6 vs 4x6V6 with a separate switch for low/high voltage.
• BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition. 100W hybrid amp, does any Marshall-based tone you can think of. Powerscalable down to 2W.

Any of these can be turned down to a whisper no problem because they have gradual, well working master volumes. This is at their full power level, which is what I mostly use because it sounds bigger, bolder and punchier than the lower power settings. On the Victory 11 vs 35W is the equivalent of being able to turn the MV up 1 notch to reach the same volume level.

To me power scaling is mostly tone/feel switches as they have more effect on those than volume. The Victory gets a bit more vintagey at 11W when it's fully cathode biased. The Bogner gets saggier at the "low voltage" 15 and 30W modes, manual describes it as similar to engaging a tube rectifier. The 23W mode is with half the power tubes and is mostly a narrower dynamic range, slightly softer low end and earlier breakup mode.

The other mistake people make is not understanding how important actual volume is. Even though these amps have extremely good volume control, they sound their best when they are louder. Using an attenuator does absolutely nothing to change this because the issue is entirely about physical volume and how we perceive it. You can take any amp ever made and turning its volume up at some point it will sound like it comes to life. That's the minimum volume you can use without it sounding much worse. It's often louder than you can use in an apartment with thin walls.

That's why I go for modelers and headphones if I need to play at really low volume because I can turn the headphones louder instead. With a real amp and cab when the volume is too low, it does not matter if you use pedals into a clean amp, a digital modeler or a top tier tube amp. They are all going to sound similar except some of these setups are much more expensive.

 

[viifox]

Air guitar works great for low volumes!

 

[Millul]

Well, I got my rig earlier today, hooked everything up and...it's LOUD AF

By that, I mean it gets close to "neighbours banging on the wall" with the volume at 8 o'clock, and clearly it doesn't sound as good as it could at that level (still way better than my THX).
It also gets louder REAL QUICK from there - this thing can surely hang with a drummer/be used for rehearsal and gigs (if you don't need a clean sound, as it runs out of headroom fast there).

Plenty of gain, and a shit ton of bass as well.

Step 1 will be trying to see what I can do with the famed "eq in the loop" setup; I'll also look at that Joyo 8" cab, just because.

Yeah, might need to go the cab sim/monitor route let's see.

 

[Nightside]

Well, I got my rig earlier today, hooked everything up and...it's LOUD AF

By that, I mean it gets close to "neighbours banging on the wall" with the volume at 8 o'clock, and clearly it doesn't sound as good as it could at that level (still way better than my THX).
It also gets louder REAL QUICK from there - this thing can surely hang with a drummer/be used for rehearsal and gigs (if you don't need a clean sound, as it runs out of headroom fast there).

Plenty of gain, and a shit ton of bass as well.

Step 1 will be trying to see what I can do with the famed "eq in the loop" setup; I'll also look at that Joyo 8" cab, just because.

Yeah, might need to go the cab sim/monitor route let's see.

If this one doesn't work out, I'm also eyeing the Marshall DSL1HR. It's all tubes so has to have a speaker cab or dummy load. However, it can drop from 1 watt to .1 watt. Also has fx loop.