7 string action - help please...

[Tikitony]

Hi All!

So, recently I acquired a (pristine) second hand Ibanez RG Iron Cross 7 string. However, the fret buzz on the first fret was terrible for all the strings, so naively I just heightened the saddles until it was gone. Now I have a ridiculously high action of around 3.2mm at the 12th fret and 5 mm at the 24th fret!!

I have done some research and realise that the truss rod will most likely have to come into play here so I was just wondering; once I have lowered the saddles again and started to find a compromise between the height of the saddles and the truss rod adjustments, what kind of average height should I be looking for at the 12th and 24th frets?

Thank you very much!

 

[AkiraSpectrum]

Solving your problem:
#1 Could be a backbow in the neck, so yes, giving the neck more relief by loosening the truss rod may be the fix.
#2 If the neck has sufficient relief, there could be another issue like a high fret or something. Does the buzz happen on open strings? If so, it could be the nut slots are too low.

String Height:
Wow that is ridiculously high.
String height is generally speaking personal preference (assuming its not extremely high or extremely low).

Every manufacturer provides different measurements and at different locations (12, 17, 19, last fret). These specs are always for 6-strings and usually the 7th string is set higher. I think most will suggest the 7th be roughly 2-2.5mm at 12th--which I personally find a little too high, against its mostly preference.

Commonly, a lot of manufacturers will suggest 2mm on bass side and 1.5 mm on treble side--measured at 12th for 6-strings. I find this to be too high personally.

I tend to go with 1.6-1.7 mm at the last fret on bass side and 1.3-1.5 mm on treble side at last fret. For the 7th string I think I have it between 2-2.5mm at last fret (haven't checked recently).


6-strings:

Fender I think suggest 1.6mm (bass) and 1.2-1.6mm (treble ---- dependent on neck radius) measured at 17th.
G & L (and Tom Anderson) suggest 1.6mm for bass and treble at last fret.
Music Man 1.6-2mm on bass side, 1.2-1.6mm on treble (at 12th).
ESP Japan suggests 1.5-1.8mm bass and 1.2-1.5mm treble (at 12th).

I forget Ibanez factory spec, but a well-respected Ibanez dealer has a setup guide you can use (http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/action.htm)

 

[AkiraSpectrum]

More 6-string factory spec (for fun):

Suhr: 1.6 mm on bass and treble (sometimes 1.2mm on treble) at last fret.
Jackson: 1.6mm bass and 1.2 mm treble at 17th.
Charvel: 1.5 mm bass and treble at 12th.
Ibanez: 2-2.2mm bass and 1.5-1.7mm treble (at 14th)
ESP/LTD (America): 2mm bass and 1.5mm treble (12th)

Found some 7-string spec:

7-string:
Ibanez: 2.2-2.4mm (at 14th) for the 7th string.
ESP/LTD (America): 2.5mm (at 12th) for the 7th string.

 

[Webmaestro]

On my three Ibanez 7’s (which are RG’s or RGD’s that have either an Edge Pro 7 or a Edge Lo Pro 7), my personal preference is 1.8mm bass and 1.5mm treble. I can go as low as 1.5mm bass and 1.3mm treble before I get buzz, but I tend to play a little harder, do lots of bends, etc. so I naturally buzz with really low action. Plus, I just prefer the feel of the slightly higher action.

I should point out: I measure at the 12th fret, strings completely open, without using a capo or anything else.

Akira pretty much said what I would’ve said regarding the tech stuff, so I won’t re-hash that.

 

[LiveOVErdrive]

Start by adjusting the truss rod until the neck is flat (site down the side from the headstock end). Do quarter turns at a time and let it settle for a few minutes.

Once you get there, loosen it slightly to give a little bit of forward bow. Not much. Just a little.

Now adjust the saddle height to taste.

 

[NoodleFace]

A better way to adjust the truss rod is to fret the first fret and the fret that meets the body and check the gap between the 7th string and the 12th fret. You should be able to fit a business card in the gap and that's it. If there's no gap loosen the truss, if the gaps too big tighten it. Adjust afterwards if you still have fret buzz on the 1-5 fret range.

 

[LiveOVErdrive]

A better way to adjust the truss rod is to fret the first fret and the fret that meets the body and check the gap between the 7th string and the 12th fret. You should be able to fit a business card in the gap and that's it. If there's no gap loosen the truss, if the gaps too big tighten it. Adjust afterwards if you still have fret buzz on the 1-5 fret range.

That's cool. That depends on a proper nut depth, correct?

 

[PBC]

Fret buzz on those lower strings can mean either the truss rod has too much relief or it has too much. I tend to think of the saddles adjusting the action of 1-7 but the truss rod for 7-onwards.

I tend to follow this pattern:
1) Lower the action until it's pretty buzzy on the lower frets but not so that the tuner can't find the fundamental.
2) If action is too high on 8fret and above, tighten truss rod, else if action is lower on those strings, loosen truss rod.
3) Check action by feel & eye-balling on those upper frets.
4) Play with normal rhythm picking power, evaluate fret buzz. Strings tend to buzz on the 12-15 if they are loose and you're playing hard on the lower frets.
5). Repeat 1-4 until desired set up is reached.

I tend to start from a lower relief, then work my way up till it starts buzzing on the 1-5 frets then back off just a bit. When laying the guitar flat I, I try to make the action on the 12th fret equal the 22nd or 24th.

Lastly: don't forget to intonate after you've done all the steps. The relief changes the intonation across the strings.

 

[Tikitony]

Thank you all, that is great!! I've just realised that I have been measuring the action from the fretboard and not the top of the fret, so this may account for the ridiculously high measurements I got too!

Thanks!!!

 

[Tikitony]

I have put all the above information into practice and now all my guitars play like a dream. A collection of shreddy, wailing, pummelling, low action, no fret buzz dreams. To my housemates, probably more like nightmares. Thanks all

 

[HungryGuitarStudent]

I've just received a new guitar (Strandberg Singularity) and the action is a bit low. I noticed my sweeps are less clean on this guitar and I'm thinking of raising the action to address that. Have you ever noticed something similar. Disclaimer: I'm a total noob when it comes to playing with guitar action. I basically play my Boden Prog7 with the action it was set in initially (i.e. I've never fiddled with it).

 

[diagrammatiks]

I've just received a new guitar (Strandberg Singularity) and the action is a bit low. I noticed my sweeps are less clean on this guitar and I'm thinking of raising the action to address that. Have you ever noticed something similar. Disclaimer: I'm a total noob when it comes to playing with guitar action. I basically play my Boden Prog7 with the action it was set in initially (i.e. I've never fiddled with it).

Oof the stock action is a bit high for my liking. But if you like it no worries. First check neck relief and if it’s adequate then raise the action.

 

[HungryGuitarStudent]

Oof the stock action is a bit high for my liking. But if you like it no worries. First check neck relief and if it’s adequate then raise the action.

Yeah, it's a bit high I agree. I'm actually thinking of changing the action on both guitarts to get an intermediate between the stock Prog7 (a bit high) and Singularity (a bit low) actions. That being said, getting clean sweeps with the Prog7 stock action is waaay easier than with the Singularity stock action.

Concerning neck relief, I've never adjusted it myself and I don't know much about that. My luthier adjusted it.