8 String Fanned Fret

[Cool711]

That sounds excellent.
I spoke to them again, and they were saying the best thing for them to do is to modify the existing one to accommodate the fanned frets.
They asked me for the difference in intonation points between the high and low strings.

 

[Durero]

Wow that sounds great. Did they give you any sense of the cost for the fanned-fret mod?

 

[Cool711]

Nothing definite yet.

 

[Diatenshi]

I am really interested to hear the outcome. I would be interested in a similar build in the coming months as I save some monies. Let us know totals of price and such as you find them out : ) !

 

[Cool711]

Definately.
In the mean time, I have to work out some details.
What fret do you guys think the straight fret should go on?

Suggestions, reasons, advice?

 

[OzzyC]

Definately.
In the mean time, I have to work out some details.
What fret do you guys think the straight fret should go on?

Suggestions, reasons, advice?

7
For much the same reason as Blackmachine uses the 5th fret

 

[Cool711]

Why is that?

 

[OzzyC]

Why is that?

To make chording easier in the lower frets.

 

[Durero]

Try FretFind 2-D if you haven't already.

http://www.fretfind.ekips.org/2d/nonparallel.php

For ergonomics and aesthetics, I choose to match the angle of the nut and the highest fret (33rd on my current 9-string design.) This usually ends up making the 9th fret the straight one (depending on total number of frets), and the bridge being a little more angled than the nut which feels natural for both hands.

However, if you tend to spend more time playing in the 1st position than elsewhere on the neck, then I agree with Oz and I'd recommend having the 7th or 5th fret straight to reduce the angle of the nut & first fret.

 

[Cool711]

Thanks for the link.

I'm leaning right now towards the 12th fret position because I need to keep the bridge angle as close to 90 degrees as possible for the trem. (Am I right to assume that at 12 it will be closer than at 7 or 9?)

Also, I play in basically all the positions.
I use open chords a lot, but I also do all the solos.
Additionally, the main focus of my playing is riffing, and if in the lower registers, it's usually comprised of the first 4 strings (very very general overview).

So from that, you guys think I'm better off with the 12? or lower?

 

[ElRay]

Try FretFind 2-D if you haven't already.

http://www.fretfind.ekips.org/2d/nonparallel.php

I'll second this. I did a mock-up by printing out a full-sized pattern, gluing it to a piece of cardboard and then "playing" with it. Depending on your OS, printer, PDF viewer, etc. it might be easiest to print the multi-page version, because it can be tricky to get correctly scaled pages from the single-page PDF.

For ergonomics and aesthetics, I choose to match the angle of the nut and the highest fret (33rd on my current 9-string design.) This usually ends up making the 9th fret the straight one (depending on total number of frets), and the bridge being a little more angled than the nut which feels natural for both hands.

I'm leaning right now towards the 12th fret position because I need to keep the bridge angle as close to 90 degrees as possible for the trem.

There has been a bit of a change to FretFind 2-D. You now specify the "perpendicular distance". From the docs:

A value of 0 results in a perpendicular nut. A value of 1 results in a perpendicular bridge. The default 0.5 results in a perpendicular octave fret.

There's more details and a table online if you want a particular fret to be perpendicular. If you wanted to go with a straight bridge, you could do that, but then all your offset will be at the nut. I tested that, but with a 28-5/8 to 25-1/2 fan, I couldn't comfortably fret the first string at the fourth fret and the seventh string at the first fret.

Ray

 

[Durero]

I'm leaning right now towards the 12th fret position because I need to keep the bridge angle as close to 90 degrees as possible for the trem. (Am I right to assume that at 12 it will be closer than at 7 or 9?)

Yes that's right. The 12th will give you approximately matching angles at the bridge and nut. (If, like most designs, you have a slightly wider string spacing at the bridge than at the nut, then the nut will have a slightly sharper angle than the bridge.)

Again I'd suggest throwing your specs into FretFind - one of the results it'll give you is the angle for the nut, bridge and each fret. Like Ray says, you can experiment with which fret you would like to be the straight one (12th is the default I believe) and see how that affects the bridge angle.

 

[Cool711]

Well I calculated it using a perpendicular bridge and it looks playable (23"-25" + 28 frets).

This is just keeping the bridge perpendicular though.
I need to find out about the fulcrum points and how it will be affected (if at all) by having it perpendicular.

Because as far as I was concerned, once the saddles moved to accommodate the scale lengths, I thought it would be fine.
However, I was told that the fulcrum points would have to change.

Can anyone explain this to me?
This is the last point I need to clarify before commissioning the build.

 

[ElRay]

Well I calculated it using a perpendicular bridge and it looks playable (23"-25" + 28 frets).

That's not much of a fan. Nice that it seems to work with a perpendicular bridge. That way, you should be able to go with a stock vibrato.

I need to find out about the fulcrum points and how it will be affected (if at all) by having it perpendicular. ... However, I was told that the fulcrum points would have to change.

Khaler's are cam-based, after the saddles, right? If so, then it shouldn't matter, because the saddles aren't moving when you're adding vibrato, it's the cams that are stretching/releasing tension on the strings. It's the FR-Style vibratos that move the saddles up and down, so the angled bridge would impart a very different moment arm to each string.

This is the last point I need to clarify before commissioning the build.

It's a non-trival purchase. I'd still make a cardboard neck and play air guitar for a while.

Ray

 

[Cool711]

^Agreed.

And yeah, as far as I knew Khaler would make it so that it wouldn't matter because the saddles didn't move. But Mike said something about the fulcrum points in their bridge, so I wasn't sure.

Hopefully the stock vibrato will work.
We'll soon find out, lol.

 

[Durero]

That's not much of a fan. Nice that it seems to work with a perpendicular bridge. That way, you should be able to go with a stock vibrato.Khaler's are cam-based, after the saddles, right? If so, then it shouldn't matter, because the saddles aren't moving when you're adding vibrato, it's the cams that are stretching/releasing tension on the strings. It's the FR-Style vibratos that move the saddles up and down, so the angled bridge would impart a very different moment arm to each string.It's a non-trival purchase. I'd still make a cardboard neck and play air guitar for a while.

+1 to everything Ray said
Especially the cardboard neck thing - I did that to try out the feel of my fanned-7 prototype before building and it worked wonderfully. The finished product perfectly matched the feel I was expecting.

 

[XEN]

Knowing that Kahlers could be made to accommodate a fan has my wheels seriously turning. Not good, 'cause I have work to do here....

 

[Cool711]

Can anyone see any complications with the Kahler bridge provided that it is mounted straight (no angle because of all the compensation at the nut?)

 

[Durero]

The Kahler should be fine. The only drawback I can imagine is having all your compensation at the nut could make open position playing less comfortable. Splitting the compensation between nut & bridge would eliminate this possibility. I'm sure if you 'air guitar' your neck design first you'll be able to see how much this design affects your comfort.

To split the compensation between nut & bridge would only require 1" of compensation at each end. The standard Kahler design can already handle about 1/2" and I think it would be an easy mod for them to make one to your requirements. I'd encourage you to keep discussing it with them.

 

[Cool711]

Yeah, I'm waiting for some more info to contact them.

But if I do compensate at the bridge, do you know if there would be any stability issues?