8 String Fanned Fret

[Cool711]

I believe they are going to be longer, but I will verify with them.
The 4 are longer to accommodate the fan, but I don't know if they will be adjustible for the entire length. (1" for the longest one).

 

[Cool711]

Hey guys, another question here.
I was thinking about the scale length being 25 on the B side and 23 on the short side, but I was wondering if to push the 25 up to 25.5.
Would it make much of a difference?

And what is the longest scale length possible for a high A with a 0.09 or 0.08 string?

Thanks.

 

[dpm]

you don't want to take it much past 23" for a high A with a standard string.
I'd suggest making a full size drawing of 23"-25" and 23"-25.5" to see how it's going to feel.

 

[Cool711]

Would 23.5 be ok?

 

[dpm]

yeah, should be fine. Even when you reduce the tension of the A string the .008's are still naturally weaker so break more easily. Just keep that in mind.

 

[Cool711]

Ok cool, thanks.
I was just wondering because I don't want the low B to be too short.

 

[dpm]

25" can work fine for a low B providing the construction and woods are chosen for a tight sound. I had a 25" Carvin 6 string that I used to tune to B. It had a maple neck and body with an ebony fretboard and had a fantastic sounding low B. Much better than any 25.5" basswood bodied guitar I've ever heard.

 

[Cool711]

Well, this guitar is going to be a 7 piece maple + mahogany neck through with mahogany wings.

Ebony fretboard, stainless steel saddles and EMG pickups.

Thoughts on the sound of the low B?

 

[dpm]

could get a little muddy with that much mahogany. Which EMG models are you using?

 

[Cool711]

The 808s.
Ideally I would like an 81, but they don't have the 8 string models (yet???)

I also tune half step down, so that B will actually be half step lower than standard.

Thoughts?

I've decided that it's not worth risking and I'm gonna push the low B up to 25.5"

I'll either keeping the high A side at 23" or even reduce it to 22.75" depending on Mike's advice.

 

[Cool711]

Update:
Kahler started the drawings on the bridge Monday.

Finally went with a 25.5 - 22.75 scale length.

Woods changed to Maple + Purple Heart in the neck; Mahogany wings stay the same.

Pics to follow.

 

[Cool711]

This is so freakin' cool.

 

[Chellee Guitars]

I'll build it. Take a look at my site. I met a few of the guys at Jemfest last weekend. The guys that were there on Friday played a couple of my guitars and seemed to like them. I'm sure you could ask them about the quality and playability. I'm an EMG dealer and a one man shop. I build everything by hand to spec and, though the guitars pictured on the site all have the same body style (except the bass) I'll build whatever you'd like. Just let me know if you're interested.

 

[Cool711]

Oh, thanks a lot dude, but I already got Mike to build this one.
I was also speaking to another guy from the site about another fixed bridge version, but I'll check out your site now.

Again, thanks a lot for the consideration.

 

[Cool711]

Hey guys, another question here.

The neck blank is already finished etc., and we went with purple heart and maple.

However, I read something here about wenge and it put some doubts in my mind.

Basically I kind of like Slash's lead sound and Hetfield's rhythm sound, both with a nice dose of low mids.

The guitar is neck through maple + purple heart with mahogany wings right now (at least that is the current plan).

Of course, Mike being Mike says that if I want to change it, he's happy to make me happy.

My question is (cold feet I guess), do you think this is ideal, or should I redo the neck with maple + wenge in order to get more lower mids.

My understanding is that purple heart will give more high mids.
I'm worried that it sounds too high, which I hate, like a typical Strat or PRS CE with maple neck and maple top.

Ideally, I'd like to get a nice tight rhythm sound off of the low strings, but a smooth Slash-like sound off of the high strings (Forgetting amp settings; I want the base tone to be there. I already have the gear for tweaking it, but I'd really like to get as close to it as possible from the start).

Other considerations: Bridge (Khaler) has stainless steel rollers; Neck pickup is moved back to between neck and middle position to facilitate 27 frets and a deep cutaway; Fretboard is ebony;
All these would contribute to a brighter sound.

Neck pup is an 808.
Scale lengths: 25.5 - 22.75

Thoughts?

 

[vansinn]

Hey guys, another question here.

The neck blank is already finished etc., and we went with purple heart and maple.

However, I read something here about wenge and it put some doubts in my mind.

Basically I kind of like Slash's lead sound and Hetfield's rhythm sound, both with a nice dose of low mids.

The guitar is neck through maple + purple heart with mahogany wings right now (at least that is the current plan).

Of course, Mike being Mike says that if I want to change it, he's happy to make me happy.

My question is (cold feet I guess), do you think this is ideal, or should I redo the neck with maple + wenge in order to get more lower mids.

My understanding is that purple heart will give more high mids.
I'm worried that it sounds too high, which I hate, like a typical Strat or PRS CE with maple neck and maple top.

Ideally, I'd like to get a nice tight rhythm sound off of the low strings, but a smooth Slash-like sound off of the high strings (Forgetting amp settings; I want the base tone to be there. I already have the gear for tweaking it, but I'd really like to get as close to it as possible from the start).

Other considerations: Bridge (Khaler) has stainless steel rollers; Neck pickup is moved back to between neck and middle position to facilitate 27 frets and a deep cutaway; Fretboard is ebony;
All these would contribute to a brighter sound.

Neck pup is an 808.
Scale lengths: 25.5 - 22.75

Thoughts?

Well, while mostly a guitar player, I also shopped an unfinished bass project after much discussion with a bass player I know, having build four basses (incl an 8 string).
He told me a sycamore mable neck through would produce quite a nice bright sound, with the wenge fretboard holding a little bit back on clarity.

My '87 Duesenberg 6-stringer has a basswodd body with a fairly decent cavity and a mable neck with ebony board. Coupled with OBL 450's it's quite bright.
Not being an expert, I still think your latest suggested woods might give you that wanted tone.

I'd guess your choise of alloys in that Kahler may affect tone as well.
Did you check Kahler's page on tonal qualities with different alloys?
I have no idea which alloy combinations can be had for their new fanned designs, though.
Elaborated in detail on my main styles and sought after tone, they were were very nice replying to me on choise of materials for a 6-stringer a few month ago.

While I haven't asked them as yet, I'm thinking about graphite rollers.
One problem I've read report on is that rollers gets stuck over time, and strings create a flatspot. Graphite rollers would be self-lubricating, and wear less on strings.

I have a link somewhere to Rick Korner's Gibson-Kahler install job on Mark Edwards' (Overlorde) Gibson V Gothic Black, with custom graphite rollers installed. Searching...
EDIT: it's here: A Custom Gibson Flying V With A Modified Kahler Bridge used by Mark Edwards of Overlorde
Picks of saddles with graphite rollers near buttom of page.

Damn, I should never have signed up in here. Getting all to hot about this myself

 

[Durero]

Those graphite rollers look very interesting. Thanks for that link vansinn.

 

[vansinn]

Those graphite rollers look very interesting. Thanks for that link vansinn.

Well, kindof.. I asked Rick where he got them, but the problem is Mark Edwards brought them to Rick himself, when he handed the axe in for mods.
Rick fine trimmed them for the Gibson Kahler saddles, but don't know where Mark got them. I mailed Mark twice, but no replies, so...
I've poked the net for them, written to graphtec et al, but so far.. nada.

I want graphite rollers in the Rockinger whammy on my Duesenberg, which has pretty crappy rollers not made to specs, i.e. they're sitting loose, sucking tone and sustain.
If only I could locate a place selling a graphite rod of suitable dimentions, I'd shop time in a tool shop and make them myself. Maybe not too easy, but oh well.

Finally went with a 25.5 - 22.75 scale length.

I have a hard time determining which scale will fit for which string gauges. I realize I'd have to experiment with various gauges on a finished instrument.
I partly have a hand problem keeping me from too heavy strings, partly am somewhat savvy WRT tension feeling on the upper strings.
I'd prefer about the same feeling as in my 25.5" 6-stringer with 9.5, 12, 17, 24, 34, 46. The reason for the seemingly slinky E:9.5 vs the b:12 is that I most always find the high E too hard compared to the rest.

For an 8 string, I don't want too much fanning. I've played with the fretfinder with a 24"-26.5" scale keeping 9th fret perpendicular. I don't want the a-string less than a .009.
It seems either 9, 11.5, 14, 18, 26, 36, 42, 52 or 9, 12, 16, 20, 26, 36, 42, 52 might give me about the same feeling, or am I totally off?

Further, is anyone using intonated nuts? On most guitars, I find the b and G strings tend to go ever so slightly sharp, and the low E slightly flat.

Also, is the fretfinder based on any corrective theory, like Buzz-Feiten or other methods? Or is that what the Just Scala is there for?

 

[Cool711]

Well, the compensated nut is supposed to correct for what the fanning of the frets actually does, i.e. have different scale lengths for each string.
(Just in case you were wondering)

I went with 22.75 because this was the best possible alternative for a high A with a tremolo, without using Garry's string.

Then 25.5 was the highest I could go to without making the fan too extreme while retaining a decent enough length for the low B. (straight fret at 12 to facilitate easier higher register soloing).
Since the fan isn't extreme, first position still seems to remain comfortable enough for chording.

So that's how I decided.

Edit:

Incidentally, I have just decided to stick with the original plan.

A key consideration is that I'm going to bug Mike to make me another neck later made of maple and wenge!

Plus, I think with all things considered, I'd like the guitar to sound like a cross between an RR1 and Les Paul.

Since the RR1 is straight maple with alder wings, I figure the mahogany body and purple heart will add some of the characteristics I'm looking for and I'll compensate for the rest with eq and amp.

Thanks guys.

 

[Durero]

Well, kindof.. I asked Rick where he got them, but the problem is Mark Edwards brought them to Rick himself, when he handed the axe in for mods.
Rick fine trimmed them for the Gibson Kahler saddles, but don't know where Mark got them. I mailed Mark twice, but no replies, so...
I've poked the net for them, written to graphtec et al, but so far.. nada.

I want graphite rollers in the Rockinger whammy on my Duesenberg, which has pretty crappy rollers not made to specs, i.e. they're sitting loose, sucking tone and sustain.
If only I could locate a place selling a graphite rod of suitable dimentions, I'd shop time in a tool shop and make them myself. Maybe not too easy, but oh well.

Ah interesting - let us know if you find any further info on them

I have a hard time determining which scale will fit for which string gauges. I realize I'd have to experiment with various gauges on a finished instrument.
I partly have a hand problem keeping me from too heavy strings, partly am somewhat savvy WRT tension feeling on the upper strings.
I'd prefer about the same feeling as in my 25.5" 6-stringer with 9.5, 12, 17, 24, 34, 46. The reason for the seemingly slinky E:9.5 vs the b:12 is that I most always find the high E too hard compared to the rest.

For an 8 string, I don't want too much fanning. I've played with the fretfinder with a 24"-26.5" scale keeping 9th fret perpendicular. I don't want the a-string less than a .009.
It seems either 9, 11.5, 14, 18, 26, 36, 42, 52 or 9, 12, 16, 20, 26, 36, 42, 52 might give me about the same feeling, or am I totally off?

Further, is anyone using intonated nuts? On most guitars, I find the b and G strings tend to go ever so slightly sharp, and the low E slightly flat.

Have you tried the String Tension Calculator? http://www.pacificsites.net/~dog/StringTensionApplet.html



I've recently had the Buzz Feiten mods done to a strat-style 6 and a classical, and I'm really really impressed with the results. Chords which have sounded problematic to me for many years now sound beautiful & consistent all over the neck