A long overdue update on my experiments with fifths tuning...

[distressed_romeo]

OK...I've been meaning to post an update on this for a while.

Just for the sake of comparison between my original fifths-based tuning (CGDAEF#), I tuned the top string up to G to try Robert Fripp's New Standard tuning. Both had similar potential for chordal playing, but NST was slightly better for scalar playing, as the minor third made the top string easier to incorporate into lines. I'll probably end up going back and forth between the two (I also want to try CGDADG).
This tuning style is suprisingly versatile. I'm probably going to string up my acoustic in the same way when I next the change strings, as it covers pretty much everything from Preston Reed-style tapping (actually, it's tailor made for this) to soloing (the layout of the fretboard is actually pretty easy to get your head round) and straightforward strumming (even straight major and minor chords sound amazing due to the overtones of the fifths-based tuning, and the nice wide-interval voicings it invites).

I'm really glad I tried this...everyone should at least give it a go, as it's a great rutt-buster and really brings acoustic guitars to life.

 

[eleven59]

Interesting. I might give it a try sometime.

 

[xwmucradiox]

Thats C above the B on a 7 right? What string guages did you use?

 

[ohio_eric]

Thanks for the update.

Can you play more standard tunes when you're tuned to fifths or is it awkward?

 

[distressed_romeo]

Thats C above the B on a 7 right? What string guages did you use?

52, 42, 30, 18, 11, 10. Feels really good, so that's what I'm going to stick with.

Thanks for the update.

Can you play more standard tunes when you're tuned to fifths or is it awkward?

There's no reason why you couldn't. Melodies are no problem provided you take the trouble to map out the fingerboard (you can play 3+ octave scales in one position using four-note-per-string fingerings), and like I said, chords sound great, although 'normal' close-voiced triads are a stretch on any other than the top three strings, so strumming, comping and chord melody stuff should be easy to adjust to. I haven't tried it on an electric yet, although it'll obviously have the same advantages as things like Drop C and Devin Townsend's Open C for heavy stuff.

With that in mind, most stuff should adapt fairly well to the new tuning.

 

[ElRay]

52, 42, 30, 18, 11, 10. Feels really good, so that's what I'm going to stick with.

That low C isn't too lose? I tried an equal tension calculator and it suggested 52 and 80 for those bottom two strings.

Ray

 

[xwmucradiox]

I dont think its a C above 5 string bass B. I think its C above 7 string guitar B. At that tuning, a 52 would be a nice even tension. If you tried to use an 80 it would be extremely tight at C and might even break.

 

[distressed_romeo]

The 52's working just fine for me at the moment. I don't want to go too heavy as I don't want it to get too boomy in the low end. I can't imagine going as heavy as 80 for a low A, let alone a low C...

 

[ElRay]

I did think the numbers I got were too-atypical to accept without question.

I dont think its a C above 5 string bass B. I think its C above 7 string guitar B.

Aka, the C below the low E on a standard 6-string, aka 65 Hz, aka C2, right?

At that tuning, a 52 would be a nice even tension. If you tried to use an 80 it would be extremely tight at C and might even break.

The string tension calculator I was using selected string gauges to get a uniform tension to bend one step. Not a uniform tension for each string. My bad. Here's numbers from StringTensionApplet:

The ideal guages for 23lbs tension per string:

len 25.5"
F4# 23# PL == 0.0106"
E4 23# PL == 0.0119"
A3 23# PB == 0.0188"
D3 23# PB == 0.0278"
G2 23# PB == 0.0414"
C2 23# PB == 0.0631"​

The tensions for the gauges DR is using:

F4# 0.010" PL == 20.43#
E4 0.011" PL == 19.62#
A3 0.018" PB == 20.66#
D3 0.030" PB == 27.1#
G2 0.042" PB == 23.76#
C2 0.052" PB == 15.92#
total == 127.49#​

Here's as close to equal and keeping tension more or less increasing up the strings:

F4# 0.010" PL == 20.43#
E4 0.012" PL == 23.35#
A3 0.019" PB == 23.55#
D3 0.028" PB == 23.4#
G2 0.042" PB == 23.76#
C2 0.064" PB == 23.59#
total == 138.08#​

And here's the tensions corresponding to the gauges the first calculator gave me for the two lowest strings:

G2 0.052" PB == 35.73#
C2 0.080" PB == 34.02#​

I should add, that's for my preferred wound 3rd string. We could lighten things up a bit if a plain 3rd string is preferred. I also just realized that you can get plain 9.5's, 10.5's, 11.5's and 13.5's, so we could tweak those even more.

Ray

 

[distressed_romeo]

Hmmm...interesting stuff.

 

[xwmucradiox]

wierd. I recieved a 7 in the mail today that must have had a 68 or so for the 7th string and it was ridiculously thick. I have a 7 in drop Ab with 10-56 and its absolutely fine. I guess if you played strictly rhythm or all meshuggah stuff you can use super thick strings but I need something thinner to play in my band.

 

[distressed_romeo]

It's all a question of your personal picking attack. Tom Kopyto uses a 50 for his low B for instance, and gets a great rhythm tone.

 

[ElRay]

It's all a question of your personal picking attack. Tom Kopyto uses a 50 for his low B for instance, and gets a great rhythm tone.

Whereas I finger pick and I found the lights to be too thin feeling and vastly varying tensions between the strings annoying. As an aside, I'm considering brass plated steel for the two high strings the next time I have to buy strings.

 

[distressed_romeo]

Whereas I finger pick and I found the lights to be too thin feeling and vastly varying tensions between the strings annoying. As an aside, I'm considering brass plated steel for the two high strings the next time I have to buy strings.

Let us know how you get on with those...I'd be interested to hear how they sound.

 

[ElRay]

Let us know how you get on with those...I'd be interested to hear how they sound.

I'm almost certainly going to get the brass plated "plain strings", so I'll post about those.

As curious as I am about your HTHIAGTPANIT and Fripp's NST, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get strings for an all Major 3rds tuning and work with that for a while.

I do need to re-do my gauge calculations before I buy. I'll do some trial and error and see if I can get a set, or a set + an extra string or two to work-out fairly evenly for both tunings.

Ray

 

[distressed_romeo]

Be sure to post back about the 3rds tuning as well, as I'll be interested to hear whether you agree with my initial impression of it.

 

[All_¥our_Bass]

Tried fifths with a minor third on top with my friend's mother's accoustic. The thing was originally in standard and the strings were REALLY FUCKING tight. It was painful to play, so we decided to downtune to make it easier. We eventually got down to drop A and I convinced my bud to play some accoustic Nile!! But the strings were still in pretty good tension, so we went all the way into HTHAIGTPANIT* territory. So we went down to F#C#G#D#A#C# and I got to try fifths tunning on a sixer for the first time, and LOVED it. Now I just need to get a job so I can have an axe properly set up for this.



* How The Heck Am I Going To Play A Non Inverted Triad