A thought about tunings...

[distressed_romeo]

I've just been mulling over this, and thought I'd put it to the forumites...

Is it better to have a couple of tunings (or even a single one) that you never deviate from and understand inside out, or to tune the guitar according to what you're playing?

Example: Robert Fripp's New Standard Tuning is meant to be something that Guitar-Craft students learn inside out and use for everything they do. Conversely, people like Michael Hedges and Nick Drake don't really have a 'standard' tuning, and tune the guitar differently from song to song to make whatever they want to play easiest.

Discuss.

 

[guitarjitsumaster]

I always like to have a couple tunings to play around and experiment with. There are certain chord arrangements and possibilities that will never happen the same way in standard tuning.

Howevery what really sucks is when you write really cool songs in various tunings. you really dont want to have to haul around several differently tuned guitars to shows and there backups. It becomes a real hassle.

As far as concentrating on one single tuning, standard is the only one I have time to master. Being that most everything is written in standard. Though I would like to give the rober frip tuning a try for sure.

 

[Durero]

I'd think that my overall agility for improvising would decrease if I kept switching tunings. I'm completely focused on strict 4ths tuning which I use on all my guitars - the symmetry of it makes switching between my 6, 7, 9, & 10-string guitars very easy.

But for playing any pieces which are entirely through-composed altered tunings give you more tools to compose & perform with.


Edit: Another thought - I suspect that someone like Michael Hedges used to think of musical ideas or specific sounds first, then create a tuning to play them with second - thus he wouldn't be relying on his previous familiarity with that tuning in order to 'jam something out'. Obviously, whatever his creative process, it worked brilliantly for him.

 

[distressed_romeo]

You're right; I've read interviews with people who'd seen him in the studio who've said that Hedges would apparently tune to guitar completely on the fly, without worrying about the terminology, until he found the tuning that would make a particular melodic idea sing...

 

[Xplora]

Those who enjoy using a lot of different tunings tend to be acoustic players who have a lot of time in between songs to tell stories, build rapport with the audience etc while they retune their guitars. I would say they have an excellent ear for it and the audience won't necessarily know if they are a few cents out or not.

I personally feel that a couple different tunings is a good idea, but they need to be dramatically different, and not just open chords. I know that my playing style relies HEAVILY on standard tuning, and I use a lot of dissonant ideas (too much Slayer in my late teens) that focus on bringing nice melodic sounds together with spooky swampland vibes. The major thirds tuning implies a LOT of a augmented ideas, not diminished ideas, plus the chords are very different... I hope to combine standard tuning and this new tuning together for a notably different sound.... one guitar does something crazy while the other sits back, and the reverse. Combine this with possibly a fifth tuned bass (just for kicks) and the ideas just start flowing evermore!

 

[Skeletor]

I've found that playing in different tunings is really beneficial. Even something as simple as downtuning all the strings a semitone is good. I don't really know why, but it makes me feel like a way better player when I go between tunings.

 

[Desecrated]

I usually stick to standard tuning, but I have a list of chord tunings that I use sometimes, often to sprout creativity. If I feel stuck with standard tuning and I have a deadline coming up, I always start tuning the guitar differently, or even pick up a completely different instrument. I will do anything to get some new and fresh ideas.

I also tune in chords and other alternative tunings cause it makes it easier to play. Very often I’m under pressure and have only 1 day to record guitars. And I am not petrucci, so I need all the aid I can get. Alternative tunings, extended range, capos and anything that can make the song easier to play are always embraced.

 

[Ze Kink]

I'd think that my overall agility for improvising would decrease if I kept switching tunings. I'm completely focused on strict 4ths tuning which I use on all my guitars - the symmetry of it makes switching between my 6, 7, 9, & 10-string guitars very easy.

I disagree with this. I think it's the opposite, and improvisation would actually get better, as you really have to play "with your ears" rather than fingers. I know a guy who "sees" the notes that he's going to solo with (like Allan Holdsworth), and when he changes tunings, he just has to noodle around a bit and he'll see the right fingerings for that tuning.

Mattias IA Eklundh also switches tunings a lot, and he can still shred really well. Even though he apparently records many of his solos with a standard E-tuned guitar, he plays live with the weird tunings.

Raoul Björkenheim (a Finnish jazz guitarist) told us at his guitar workshop, that he also often switches tunings to get different possibilities not only for composing, but also for improvisation.

 

[distressed_romeo]

He's right...even if you go back to your normal tuning afterwards, playing lead in an altered tuning is a great exercise for developing your ears, and really forces you to think about what you're playing. I've had this experience with my experiments based on fifths tuning, and had a similar one when I was jamming with my brother (Monkeybassguru on these boards) over the holidays. We were fooling around on our guitars, and he started playing a pretty acoustic riff, and the guitar in my hand was my fretless, that was tuned to Open C. I didn't even know what key we were in, and that coupled with the new tuning really forced me to listen to what we were both playing. I wish we'd taped that jam actually; it was fucking cool!

 

[Ciprian]

I think it would be better to have a few tunings you're really familiar with, because no matter how good you are at improvisation/composition, if your fingers can't keep up with your mind (because they aren't used to certain patterns) then it's all for nothing, but it would be good to try something new once in a while.

As strange as it sounds, I've never tried an alternate tuning, not even a half-step down, or Drop-D; I've never felt the need to experiment with other tunings until recently. But lately I've been thinking of doing the following:

1)Strap some 11's on a guitar
2)Tune it all in 4ths
3)Drop it a full step

Would the 11's be suited for this kind of tuning? (could I drop it even further?)

 

[distressed_romeo]

I think it would be better to have a few tunings you're really familiar with, because no matter how good you are at improvisation/composition, if your fingers can't keep up with your mind (because they aren't used to certain patterns) then it's all for nothing, but it would be good to try something new once in a while.

As strange as it sounds, I've never tried an alternate tuning, not even a half-step down, or Drop-D; I've never felt the need to experiment with other tunings until recently. But lately I've been thinking of doing the following:

1)Strap some 11's on a guitar
2)Tune it all in 4ths
3)Drop it a full step

Would the 11's be suited for this kind of tuning? (could I drop it even further?)

Go for it! I don't know what gauges you're used to, but it's really a question of experimentation. I'm guessing 11s would be just fine for that tuning.

 

[Desecrated]

I think it would be better to have a few tunings you're really familiar with, because no matter how good you are at improvisation/composition, if your fingers can't keep up with your mind (because they aren't used to certain patterns) then it's all for nothing, but it would be good to try something new once in a while.

I think this is a good way of thinking if your only going to play superfast shred, but if you have any intrest in something below 160 bpm, your mind should be able to follow, at least mine is (and mine ain't that great).

 

[Ciprian]

I think this is a good way of thinking if your only going to play superfast shred, but if you have any intrest in something below 160 bpm, your mind should be able to follow, at least mine is (and mine ain't that great).

I was talking about the fingers. The mind has no problems, it's the fingers that can't keep up with it when they're not used to the different tunings.

 

[Desecrated]

last time I checked the mind moves the fingers, and if you still dont get it let me rephrase it for you then.

But if you have any intrest in something below 160 bpm, your fingers should be able to follow, at least mine are (and my fingers ain't that great).

 

[Ciprian]

last time I checked the mind moves the fingers, and if you still dont get it let me rephrase it for you then.

But if you have any intrest in something below 160 bpm, your fingers should be able to follow, at least mine are (and my fingers ain't that great).

You seriously don't get what I'm trying to say; the mind moves the fingers BUT there is such a thing called muscle memory, what this means is that without practicing patterns over and over, even if your mind sends signals towards your fingers, they won't be able to move as you want them to all the time because they aren't used to that type of movement.

 

[distressed_romeo]

You seriously don't get what I'm trying to say; the mind moves the fingers BUT there is such a thing called muscle memory, what this means is that without practicing patterns over and over, even if your mind sends signals towards your fingers, they won't be able to move as you want them to all the time because they aren't used to that type of movement.

There is a point where muscle memory takes precedence over the head though, and your hands start guiding you rather than your ears. The point of soloing in altered tunings is to force you to think more about the notes (which you should be able to do if you understand the layout of the tuning) you're playing, and only play what your ear wants to hear rather than letting your hands fall into familiar patterns. That way, when you get back into a familiar tuning, your brain'll probably have a much closer connection to your hands, and you improvising will have improved a lot.

 

[Durero]

I disagree with this. I think it's the opposite, and improvisation would actually get better, as you really have to play "with your ears" rather than fingers. I know a guy who "sees" the notes that he's going to solo with (like Allan Holdsworth), and when he changes tunings, he just has to noodle around a bit and he'll see the right fingerings for that tuning.

Mattias IA Eklundh also switches tunings a lot, and he can still shred really well. Even though he apparently records many of his solos with a standard E-tuned guitar, he plays live with the weird tunings.

Raoul Björkenheim (a Finnish jazz guitarist) told us at his guitar workshop, that he also often switches tunings to get different possibilities not only for composing, but also for improvisation.

You must have misunderstood my post because I completely agree with your point here. Re-reading my post now I can see how anyone could think that I was implying something negative about improvisation in other tunings, however my only point was that agility would be reduced by using an unfamiliar tuning. I certainly don't judge the qualtiy of an improvisation by it's agility or speed and I didn't say anything about quality in that post.

You and others have pointed out that unfamiliar tunings force a player to play more carefully and thus likely more melodically and I agree. That could certainly be a good thing for anyone who lets their fingers run away from their mind whenever they are playing in their most familiar tuning.

 

[ElRay]

... the mind moves the fingers BUT there is such a thing called muscle memory ...

Well, following along in my vibrato bar, infinite fretboard radius, natural harmonics, resident PITA, calling them what they really are theme, you're dealing with reflexes that have become localized in the spinal column and cerebellum. There are finger movements that happen way too fast for the "music" centers in the cerebrum too coordinate/manage.

Ray

 

[Garry Goodman]

I have been using the 4ths tuning for years and it is second nature. I developed my "ears to fingers" ability so I can pretty much hear or read something,and play it right away. Then I started thinking about voicing chords and how a string tuned that would make playing notes a half step away,easier. So I realized it is what ever you are comfortable with that will allow you to play without thinking about fingering, and that can be developed.
There is no "correct" way.