(Affordable) way to route multiple stereo tracks to different headphones?

[neurosis]

This might be an odd request and I am not even sure this is the right section to ask but you guys are always helpful so I thought I'd give it a go.

I have an art installation project that has three separate stereo mixes running simultaneously in a DAW and I want to route them to separate outs (preferably stereo).

I have gone with separate mp3 players, a motu (don't have one available now, neither do I have the cash) and three separate computers (total overkill) in earlier iterations of this piece.

I am now thinking of one computer and some sort of USB connected interface to assign separate tracks to separate outs for the 3 headsets. But I am completely lost with what I am looking for. I am not even sure there is something under 200 bucks capable of sending those three tracks over USB (read about this in a review where somebody was pissed about their Behringer mixer).

As you can tell I am pretty lost. I was thinking maybe an older used Presonus or something could work. The cheaper the better. I just need something to hook up, map and relay the tracks... nothing fancy with mixing capabilities (although I'd consider it if it exists).

Thanks!

 

[vansinn]

Well.. many audio interfaces have several outputs, and have the ability to send/route audio streams to pairs of outputs as wanted. This is controlled by the accompanying software utility.

So, you now already have most of what's wanted: Each audio stream to each it's own outputs. From there on, all you'll need is three headphone amplifiers.

If you find such amplifiers expensive - some of them indeed are, and take care not to use too cheap quality; you don't wanna damage ears - there are a good number of DIY projects for headphone amplifiers on the wibbly web.
Do note that such amps aren't a simple matter of a basic opamp. If you aren't used to DIY electronics, surely you know someone who are, else try to locate a local HAM club; these folks knows

 

[neurosis]

Well.. many audio interfaces have several outputs, and have the ability to send/route audio streams to pairs of outputs as wanted. This is controlled by the accompanying software utility.

So, you now already have most of what's wanted: Each audio stream to each it's own outputs. From there on, all you'll need is three headphone amplifiers.

If you find such amplifiers expensive - some of them indeed are, and take care not to use too cheap quality; you don't wanna damage ears - there are a good number of DIY projects for headphone amplifiers on the wibbly web.
Do note that such amps aren't a simple matter of a basic opamp. If you aren't used to DIY electronics, surely you know someone who are, else try to locate a local HAM club; these folks knows

Thanks a lot for your reply!

I was looking at some interfaces but so far even though they have multiple outputs, often the headphone defeats/shuts (not sure how to say this) the master. or you can only A/B between outputs and not use them at the same time.

I remember with the Motu I used at one point you could just go straight from separate tracks in Ableton to three separate headphones.

So, you are saying that i have to run separate amps for each headset between the interface_ I feared an answer like this... hahaha. maybe at this point it's worth doing the bare setup and using there separate mp3 players instead of dealing with all this. But then again i like to learn and hate doing simple stuff (even though this situation doesn't really require it... it would just be less of a headache once it's set up).

hmm... there is no interface/hardware that can take sound from the computer and split it into separate headphone level signals, is there? I ask this because all I see are mixers and recording interfaces and I wonder what people use when they don't need physical audio ins. There has to be some sort of matrix that can be bought, like a multiple speaker amp... just with headphone capacity I guess.

Also sorry to ask. What does HAM stand for?

 

[Nour Ayasso]

HAM (radio) is the term for amateur radio (Hyman Almy Murray). He meant a HAM radio club so they could give some advice with the output problem. I don't know if they'd know to be honest, audio differs a lot in different fields...but it could be worth it.
From what I read, you're trying to send out different tracks (from the same mix?) to different headphones? Definitely possible and should be easy, many bands do this when backtracking with in ear monitors. Should all rely in the mixer and the DAW (ableton probably the easiest imo)

 

[neurosis]

HAM (radio) is the term for amateur radio (Hyman Almy Murray). He meant a HAM radio club so they could give some advice with the output problem. I don't know if they'd know to be honest, audio differs a lot in different fields...but it could be worth it.
From what I read, you're trying to send out different tracks (from the same mix?) to different headphones? Definitely possible and should be easy, many bands do this when backtracking with in ear monitors. Should all rely in the mixer and the DAW (ableton probably the easiest imo)

Exactly!

I have an ableton session with three separate tracks. I want to assign each track to a specific headset. But I am having trouble figuring out what interface I would need. I just came back from looking at headphone splitter/mixers and for some reason they all just let you mix about two separate ins (analog) into the same common mix. You can separately adjust levels for each headphone but they all listen tot he same stuff.

I am damn sure there is a piece of gear like you mention. otherwise how can bands listen to separate mixes live? But I'll be damned if I know how that thing is called. I feel I am one step from knowing what I am looking for. I imagine something like a Midi controller capable of listening to multiple channels but actual audio, not control messages.

Thanks for clarifying the term HAM. Nice to know. I am going to read about that. Sounds interesting.

 

[Descent]

I think most interfaces come in with 2 headphone outputs at the most, the ones that I know of have usually only one feed for both headphones, so you most likely need a headphone amplifier that can convert two more line stereo output sources to headphone levels.
Some of the older interfaces would probably work doing this or even a multitrack hardware recorder (older Fostex, Roland, etc.) with the aux send routed to these preamps.

So I think you'll need at least 2 of one of these (I am going ultra cheap):
Amazon.com: Pyle-Pro PHA40 4-Channel Stereo Headphone Amplifier: Electronics

Amazon.com: Behringer HA400 4-Channel Stereo Headphone Amplifier: Musical Instruments

Then the interface or multitracker will have at least one more headphone preamp, so maybe look at some older 8 channel multitrackers with different output options or 6 an more output interfaces. If you have firewire, this would be a bargain:
Roland Edirol FA 101 Firewire Audio Interface | eBay
So will a lot of PreSonus interfaces, Firepod (or FP10), Firestudio, etc.
Then there are the Tascam 8 input usb interfaces that should also be routable, something like this but used:
Tascam US 16x08 USB Audio Recording Interface Mic Preamp 16 in 8 Out | eBay

 

[thraxil]

I would see if you could get away with picking up a few very inexpensive USB sound cards (something like this: Amazon.com: Sabrent USB External Stereo Sound Adapter for Windows and Mac. Plug and play No drivers Needed. (AU-MMSA): Computers & Accessories but maybe a higher quality one)

You'd need a couple USB ports or a decent USB hub, but then they should each show up as a separate output device in Ableton that you can route to. If that works, that's probably about the cheapest option available. Not exactly audiophile grade stuff, but...

 

[neurosis]

I think most interfaces come in with 2 headphone outputs at the most, the ones that I know of have usually only one feed for both headphones, so you most likely need a headphone amplifier that can convert two more line stereo output sources to headphone levels.
Some of the older interfaces would probably work doing this or even a multitrack hardware recorder (older Fostex, Roland, etc.) with the aux send routed to these preamps.

So I think you'll need at least 2 of one of these (I am going ultra cheap):
Amazon.com: Pyle-Pro PHA40 4-Channel Stereo Headphone Amplifier: Electronics

Amazon.com: Behringer HA400 4-Channel Stereo Headphone Amplifier: Musical Instruments

Then the interface or multitracker will have at least one more headphone preamp, so maybe look at some older 8 channel multitrackers with different output options or 6 an more output interfaces. If you have firewire, this would be a bargain:
Roland Edirol FA 101 Firewire Audio Interface | eBay
So will a lot of PreSonus interfaces, Firepod (or FP10), Firestudio, etc.
Then there are the Tascam 8 input usb interfaces that should also be routable, something like this but used:
Tascam US 16x08 USB Audio Recording Interface Mic Preamp 16 in 8 Out | eBay

Yeah. I was thinking of getting an interface second hand, one with multiple outs. And then a headphone amp with multiple inputs.

The plan would be to have the DAW send 3 tracks to 3/4 5/6 7/8 outs for example and from there into the headphone amp. But I can't find a unit that actually has multiple/separate ins.

It blows my mind that there isn't a simple product to achieve this. You either buy a cheap amp with a single in and four headphone outs or you have to go way up in the price to have more than one IN.

 

[neurosis]

I would see if you could get away with picking up a few very inexpensive USB sound cards (something like this: Amazon.com: Sabrent USB External Stereo Sound Adapter for Windows and Mac. Plug and play No drivers Needed. (AU-MMSA): Computers & Accessories but maybe a higher quality one)

You'd need a couple USB ports or a decent USB hub, but then they should each show up as a separate output device in Ableton that you can route to. If that works, that's probably about the cheapest option available. Not exactly audiophile grade stuff, but...

This looks really interesting. If I can plug in two of these and just use the regular headphone out on the mac that I am using for the visuals then I can save plenty of money. Because I only need three headphones.

I wonder if these can be routed/mapped... will they show in the DAW?

 

[col]

I would think most live mixing desks should be able to do this? Input 1 to monitor 1, input 2 to monitor 2 etc...

 

[neurosis]

I would think most live mixing desks should be able to do this? Input 1 to monitor 1, input 2 to monitor 2 etc...

Oh I was mentioning the little USB amps he recommended. I can't find much info on them and wonder if they'll show up as separate devices in Ableton for example. Specifically if I'll be able to aggregate them on the iMac I am using (2007) model.

I am just trying to go the cheap route so that option is cool but I guess I'll have to try.

Otherwise it's what you are saying, either get a USB mixer or an interface with enough outs and then hook up amps between each headphone. because quiet frankly at the price they go for I doubt I'll get a rack mount headphone amplifier unit.

The annoyance in all this is I see there is no affordable 8 mono cables > headphone amp > 4 stereo headphone outs. But since I need only three maybe a cheap interface plus the behringers or just the usb keys mentioned above with a splitter would be enough.

Try and see I guess.

 

[thraxil]

Oh I was mentioning the little USB amps he recommended. I can't find much info on them and wonder if they'll show up as separate devices in Ableton for example. Specifically if I'll be able to aggregate them on the iMac I am using (2007) model.

Supposedly, though I haven't tried: https://www.ableton.com/en/help/article/create-aggregate-devices/

It sounds like the idea is that you make an aggregate interface out of multiple sound cards and then point Ableton at that. Each of the individual ins and outs should show up there.

Again, I haven't tried it myself and it assumes that the cheap little USB buggers don't interfere with each other at a low level or anything. But it would be a relatively inexpensive experiment to pick up a couple and see if you can make it work.

 

[neurosis]

Supposedly, though I haven't tried: https://www.ableton.com/en/help/article/create-aggregate-devices/
it assumes that the cheap little USB buggers don't interfere with each other at a low level or anything. But it would be a relatively inexpensive experiment to pick up a couple and see if you can make it work.

That's my concern, that you can plug them in but then they don't show up properly or start doing some other weird stuff. The iMac should work just aggregating devices. If not I am going to use Soundflower and try that too.

I was thinking an expensive for what this is meant to do but straight solution would be to get a Focusrite Scarlett with two headphone outs for two tracks and the headphone out from the computer for the other. But that's in the 200 dollar ballpark while this other hack is considerably less.

I was also looking at schematic to build small headphone amps. But I don't want to go hunting for components now. Otherwise a little breadboard with three of those little amps in a row would be perfect. But I'd still need an interface with enough outs going in there. This USB alternative takes everything out of the equation. And the only thing to worry about for setup and maintenance for the piece is loading the program, that's it.

 

[Descent]

I wouldn't go the aggregate route, that's a nightmare waiting to happen.

 

[neurosis]

I wouldn't go the aggregate route, that's a nightmare waiting to happen.

So what would you do?

Keep in mind this is just going to play three different stereo tracks in a loop over and over again. To three different headsets. if the aggregate devices work then it's just all going to be powered by the computer. And it will be cheap, cheap to prepare and cheap if some lunatic decides to take some free gear from the installation.

What route would you go?

Thanks!

 

[Given To Fly]

I wish I could help but based off what I've found everything that does what you want is pretty expensive; expensive and complicated. Companies that make products that would work are Sound Devices and Grace Design, but again, expensive. Perhaps some grant funding will become available...

For what its worth, using my MacBook Pro and Apogee Duet 2 I can get two separate stereo mixes: the main outputs and the headphone output. I've done this before. What I've never tried, but think would work, is make an aggregate device with my computer and get a 3rd stereo output from the computers headphone output.....
........Yeah, it works, or at least I can get 6 outputs which I assume can be 3 separate stereo mixes. You would still need a headphone amp to turn the main outs of the Duet 2 into headphone outputs though. I'm not sure any of this helped but its about all I can offer. Good luck!

 

[ihunda]

What about multiple usb interfaces? Mine has 2 headphone amps, double it to get 4 headphone amps, that should be pretty cheap used. On OSX you can create compound interfaces that display as a single large interface in your DAW.

 

[neurosis]

What about multiple usb interfaces? Mine has 2 headphone amps, double it to get 4 headphone amps, that should be pretty cheap used. On OSX you can create compound interfaces that display as a single large interface in your DAW.

Hi iHunda! Can you share the usb interface you are using? That could work and routing two Usb ports instead of three might actually keep things tidy. Have you tried getting separate channels through the two headphone outs on those terminals?

Thank you!

 

[neurosis]

I wish I could help but based off what I've found everything that does what you want is pretty expensive; expensive and complicated. Companies that make products that would work are Sound Devices and Grace Design, but again, expensive. Perhaps some grant funding will become available...

For what its worth, using my MacBook Pro and Apogee Duet 2 I can get two separate stereo mixes: the main outputs and the headphone output. I've done this before. What I've never tried, but think would work, is make an aggregate device with my computer and get a 3rd stereo output from the computers headphone output.....
........Yeah, it works, or at least I can get 6 outputs which I assume can be 3 separate stereo mixes. You would still need a headphone amp to turn the main outs of the Duet 2 into headphone outputs though. I'm not sure any of this helped but its about all I can offer. Good luck!

Yes! I looked and found those too but totally out of my league. To be honest if I wasn't short on time I'd go and breadboard a three part headphone amp for the six outs on an interface. But I am running late so it's ok if I can get something I'll use later or can just resell fast on craigslit.

What you say is what I am thinking of doing if I get a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6. Just use the two headphone outs and route an extra to a headphone amp on the back using two of the outs.

Is that what you mean? I think that could work.

 

[ihunda]

Hi iHunda! Can you share the usb interface you are using? That could work and routing two Usb ports instead of three might actually keep things tidy. Have you tried getting separate channels through the two headphone outs on those terminals?

Thank you!

I am using a scarlet 18i8 - see https://global.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-18i8

The headphone feeds come from analog output 3,5 and 5,6 and can be independently routed.