Alleged Murder of Turkish Journalist in Saudi embassy

[Bentaycanada]

Do you have a source for this, or is this just speculation?
Not busting your balls, if you read anything that specifically made you think this I really want to read it too.

Oh total speculation bs on my part. I just think intelligence services tend to have co-operation on international operations, such as this one. So it wouldn't surprise me if it came out that foreign agencies knew all along.

 

[NateFalcon]

Foreign ambassadors roll around our country committing crimes ALL THE TIME (even homicide), in fact ambassadors and their extended family from particularly middle eastern countries are a nuisance for law enforcement and the US Embassy, and a lot of Senators are being pressed to end diplomatic immunity for often times straight up criminals. NY in particular is frequently slapped with immunity defenses from criminals for being related to a foreign ambassador. I’m getting off track but government sponsored crime has been a frequent problem...it would be cool if it was a solvable problem but unfortunately I don’t think any party or group has what it takes to completely turn around oppressive cultures steeped in thousands of years of routine, obedience and almost universal poverty -short of kicking out every foreign liaison. You can forget about tackling cultural problems in their country lol. It’s a lose-lose for the US to get involved- Iran and N. Korea have thumbed their noses at the US’s political posturing and “stop it” letters for decades so I wouldn’t expect anything less than a bad quality video of a Saudi family member with a funny outfit shaking his finger through a close captioned fire and brimstone taunt essentially telling us to F-off if we pressured to prosecute or threatened sanctions

 

[MFB]

Foreign ambassadors roll around our country committing crimes ALL THE TIME (even homicide)

Yeah, you're gonna need to post some statistics to back that claim up

 

[narad]

Foreign ambassadors roll around our country committing crimes ALL THE TIME (even homicide), in fact ambassadors and their extended family from particularly middle eastern countries are a nuisance for law enforcement and the US Embassy

Yea, like my dad used to run a fruit stand and some middle eastern woman once stole an apple from him to give to some starving child (there's always some story). Well, my dad was about to have her hand for it but then it turned out she was like the princess of agrabah or something and walked away unscathed. You know, like, we lose enough fruit to all these street rats and then even the diplomats get away with it!? Just rubs me the wrong way. Wish I had the power to do something.

 

[Flappydoodle]

Well, at least Saudi has admitted that he was killed in their consulate, though their cover story is not particularly credible.

I'm looking forward to see what Edogan has to say tomorrow.

It tells you what a shitshow this is when you can be looking forward to something Erdogan says. Saudis on one side, and Erdogan on the other. It's hardly a trustworthy collection of people

There's a universe where it's possible to be disgusted universally by barbaric behavior but too busy, you know, working and raising a family of your own to pour all of your energy trying to, you know, over throw a foreign country single handedly. Events like this just serve as the occasional reminder why none of us go vacationing there. Just because we don't pack up an arsenal and fly over there doesn't make us all hypocrites.

Tangent time. Fwiw, you CAN'T go as a tourist to much of Saudi, since many cities are off-limits to non-Muslims. To go at all as a tourist, you need to pre-apply for a visa up front. On the form they ask for your religion. Jew or atheist = low chance of entry. If you are a woman traveling alone, no chance. And don't try to be clever by claiming to be Muslim. If you lie about it, and they test you at the airport (ask you to quote from the Quran, in Arabic), you're up shit creek.

Even if you do get in, get ready for absolutely EVERYTHING to stop 5x per day for prayers. Stores literally close for 20-45 mins per time. And don't fuck up by breaking any sort of religious laws - which includes porn on your phone, any pork/pig products, alcohol obviously (though there are bars and prostitutes, lol). Don't talk to anybody incase you break rules about talking to unmarried people. Definitely don't talk to any woman, since you'll probably also get her into trouble for fraternising with you (though it's unlikely you'd encounter any women who aren't with their minder).

If you are a woman, don't bother - you won't be able to stay at a hotel, eat at a restaurant, go into most stores etc without a male minder (husband, brother or uncle).

If you have the misfortune to be sent for work, make sure you REALLY trust your employer., and make sure that they have sent people to Saudi before. That's because if you are on a working visa, you need an EXIT visa to leave the country, and that must be signed by your employer. So your employer could actually strand you in the country by refusing to sign the paperwork, leaving you completely fucked. (Obviously, this is common for the imported maids/servants where their owner will simply never let them leave).

I think it speaks volumes about how people seem anaware of actual atrocities that have been going on for years (it’s true, nobody mentions it) but ‘smart’ enough to have strong opinions on a polarizing political hot button story in the same place (not to downplay his actual murder). Is this reporters murder fucked up? Sure! But the collective timing of people outraged by Saudi Arabia’s lack of humanity and democracy coupled with the negligence of a war going on while concerned about Saudis’ elections paints a picture that people are only watching (or paying attention to) mainstream, ratings based news it seems. I’m also not pointing out hypocrisy but a lack of awareness and the subsequent reactionary behavior that often comes with it when the light switch is flipped on to a particular event. “Johnny come lately” is the saying I guess that comes to mind. I’m also not trolling or challenging anyone, I’m just passing thoughts on a bigger picture -we seem concerned RIGHT NOW about this event while a defensless country has been getting brutalized by the same people -and WE’RE funding them...when things like this get brought up I find that people quickly change the subject because it’s not the current scope of what they want to talk about yet equally important

Just to further this, I read an FT article recently which stated that these embassy antics are not that uncommon. Numerous Saudi citizens in the US, Europe and elsewhere have reported being asked to "pop into the consulate" to sign paperwork, pick up something etc. If they attend, they are detained, threatened etc. The article quoted numerous Saudi citizens who said they just ignore all the requests because they know what happens to people who go to the appointments.

I think Saudi just fucked up because this guy was a WaPo writer and they underestimated the amount of backlash.

 

[Randy]

Yeah, you're gonna need to post some statistics to back that claim up

Wasn't this the plot of a Beverly Hills Cop movie?

 

[MFB]

Yea, like my dad used to run a fruit stand and some middle eastern woman once stole an apple from him to give to some starving child (there's always some story). Well, my dad was about to have her hand for it but then it turned out she was like the princess of agrabah or something and walked away unscathed. You know, like, we lose enough fruit to all these street rats and then even the diplomats get away with it!? Just rubs me the wrong way. Wish I had the power to do something.

Street rats. They're all street rats!

 

[Drew]

Oh total speculation bs on my part. I just think intelligence services tend to have co-operation on international operations, such as this one. So it wouldn't surprise me if it came out that foreign agencies knew all along.

Considering there's been a divide between basically the whole US intelligence community saying "yeah, so the Saudis tortured and executed this guy," and Trump at least for the first few days being quick to attribute it to "rogue murderers" and "Hey, MBS denied it! He gave me a very strong denial!" annd furthermore that this guy was a columnist for the Washington Post at the time, I'm going to go out on a limb and say I'd be comfortable putting a good amount of money on the US NOT being involved in this.

I think it speaks volumes about how people seem anaware of actual atrocities that have been going on for years (it’s true, nobody mentions it) but ‘smart’ enough to have strong opinions on a polarizing political hot button story in the same place (not to downplay his actual murder). Is this reporters murder fucked up? Sure! But the collective timing of people outraged by Saudi Arabia’s lack of humanity and democracy coupled with the negligence of a war going on while concerned about Saudis’ elections paints a picture that people are only watching (or paying attention to) mainstream, ratings based news it seems. I’m also not pointing out hypocrisy but a lack of awareness and the subsequent reactionary behavior that often comes with it when the light switch is flipped on to a particular event. “Johnny come lately” is the saying I guess that comes to mind. I’m also not trolling or challenging anyone, I’m just passing thoughts on a bigger picture -we seem concerned RIGHT NOW about this event while a defensless country has been getting brutalized by the same people -and WE’RE funding them...when things like this get brought up I find that people quickly change the subject because it’s not the current scope of what they want to talk about yet equally important

Funny, I don't recall reading any of your posts condemning the Saudis' war in Yemen and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians there - maybe I just happened to miss that thread..?

 

[tedtan]

It tells you what a shitshow this is when you can be looking forward to something Erdogan says. Saudis on one side, and Erdogan on the other. It's hardly a trustworthy collection of people

No shit, man! That's not something I ever thought I would express, but sometimes the context and circumstances are just odd.

 

[USMarine75]

Yea, like my dad used to run a fruit stand and some middle eastern woman once stole an apple from him to give to some starving child (there's always some story). Well, my dad was about to have her hand for it but then it turned out she was like the princess of agrabah or something and walked away unscathed. You know, like, we lose enough fruit to all these street rats and then even the diplomats get away with it!? Just rubs me the wrong way. Wish I had the power to do something.

Cool story. Not a diplomat.

Foreign ambassadors roll around our country committing crimes ALL THE TIME (even homicide), in fact ambassadors and their extended family from particularly middle eastern countries are a nuisance for law enforcement and the US Embassy, and a lot of Senators are being pressed to end diplomatic immunity for often times straight up criminals. NY in particular is frequently slapped with immunity defenses from criminals for being related to a foreign ambassador. I’m getting off track but government sponsored crime has been a frequent problem...it would be cool if it was a solvable problem but unfortunately I don’t think any party or group has what it takes to completely turn around oppressive cultures steeped in thousands of years of routine, obedience and almost universal poverty -short of kicking out every foreign liaison. You can forget about tackling cultural problems in their country lol. It’s a lose-lose for the US to get involved- Iran and N. Korea have thumbed their noses at the US’s political posturing and “stop it” letters for decades so I wouldn’t expect anything less than a bad quality video of a Saudi family member with a funny outfit shaking his finger through a close captioned fire and brimstone taunt essentially telling us to F-off if we pressured to prosecute or threatened sanctions

No.

 

[NateFalcon]

Cool story. Not a diplomat.



No.

Yes.

 

[NateFalcon]

Yeah, you're gonna need to post some statistics to back that claim up

You’re free to post your own statistics if you’d like to attempt to prove that it’s not true...

 

[NateFalcon]

Considering there's been a divide between basically the whole US intelligence community saying "yeah, so the Saudis tortured and executed this guy," and Trump at least for the first few days being quick to attribute it to "rogue murderers" and "Hey, MBS denied it! He gave me a very strong denial!" annd furthermore that this guy was a columnist for the Washington Post at the time, I'm going to go out on a limb and say I'd be comfortable putting a good amount of money on the US NOT being involved in this.


Funny, I don't recall reading any of your posts condemning the Saudis' war in Yemen and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians there - maybe I just happened to miss that thread..?

I’m also not suddenly outraged or surprised about Saudi Arabia’s behavior...or acting as if there’s any recourse.

 

[Xaios]

Wasn't this the plot of a Beverly Hills Cop movie?

Also Lethal Weapon 2.

 

[NateFalcon]

A lot of outrage...but no fruition or finality (that makes anyone happy lol) is going to come out of this story

 

[Randy]

Also Lethal Weapon 2.

Ah yes, that's what I was thinking of. Based on a true story (from the future).

 

[Drew]

You’re free to post your own statistics if you’d like to attempt to prove that it’s not true...

I don't think that's how this works. You can't make an extremely bold claim, have someone tell you that they're not going to believe you without evidence, and then say they're the ones who have to prove you wrong.

I’m also not suddenly outraged or surprised about Saudi Arabia’s behavior...or acting as if there’s any recourse.

No - you're very predictably trying to make this about American politics and saying that any outrage for the murder and dismemberment of a journalist employed by a US politician is purely a pretext for faulting Trump for something new.

 

[ArtDecade]

Yea, like my dad used to run a fruit stand and some middle eastern woman once stole an apple from him to give to some starving child (there's always some story). Well, my dad was about to have her hand for it but then it turned out she was like the princess of agrabah or something and walked away unscathed. You know, like, we lose enough fruit to all these street rats and then even the diplomats get away with it!? Just rubs me the wrong way. Wish I had the power to do something.

 

[Ordacleaphobia]

I think it speaks volumes about how people seem anaware of actual atrocities that have been going on for years (it’s true, nobody mentions it) but ‘smart’ enough to have strong opinions on a polarizing political hot button story in the same place (not to downplay his actual murder). Is this reporters murder fucked up? Sure! But the collective timing of people outraged by Saudi Arabia’s lack of humanity and democracy coupled with the negligence of a war going on while concerned about Saudis’ elections paints a picture that people are only watching (or paying attention to) mainstream, ratings based news it seems. I’m also not pointing out hypocrisy but a lack of awareness and the subsequent reactionary behavior that often comes with it when the light switch is flipped on to a particular event. “Johnny come lately” is the saying I guess that comes to mind. I’m also not trolling or challenging anyone, I’m just passing thoughts on a bigger picture -we seem concerned RIGHT NOW about this event while a defensless country has been getting brutalized by the same people -and WE’RE funding them...when things like this get brought up I find that people quickly change the subject because it’s not the current scope of what they want to talk about yet equally important

Nate I appreciate the sentiment of this post, but the reason I think is pretty clear- and I'm somewhat surprised that you didn't come to the same conclusion yourself, since I believe you've mentioned previously that your wife works in the legal system.

The answer is that after a while, it all starts to be so tiresome. Apathy is a hell of a drug, and after a while, you get worn down enough that things don't fire you up the way they used to.

I don't get worked up about ISIS anymore. That doesn't mean I'm chill with drowning people in cages now, it's just become a fact of life. This happens. There are people out there, right now, being held and executed by all sorts of crazy groups. There is nothing I can realistically do about this short of getting my Bad Motherfucker certification, joining some special forces unit, and hoping for a raid.

The Middle East is a veritable shitstorm of human rights violations, but it has been for decades. And it isn't changing any time soon, I can get pissed about it all I want, but I can only express my outrage so many times before I'm literally repeating myself. This is such a hot-button issue because this is something new. Oppressive regimes murder journalists. Oppressive regimes do sketchy things with their diplomats. Oppressive regimes lie on the national stage, and oppressive regimes are more likely to be a bit bolder with their antics.
But all of these things don't usually line up like this, this is something "new" in the way that the manner in which this played out was somewhat atypical.

 

[NateFalcon]

Nate I appreciate the sentiment of this post, but the reason I think is pretty clear- and I'm somewhat surprised that you didn't come to the same conclusion yourself, since I believe you've mentioned previously that your wife works in the legal system.

The answer is that after a while, it all starts to be so tiresome. Apathy is a hell of a drug, and after a while, you get worn down enough that things don't fire you up the way they used to.

I don't get worked up about ISIS anymore. That doesn't mean I'm chill with drowning people in cages now, it's just become a fact of life. This happens. There are people out there, right now, being held and executed by all sorts of crazy groups. There is nothing I can realistically do about this short of getting my Bad Motherfucker certification, joining some special forces unit, and hoping for a raid.

The Middle East is a veritable shitstorm of human rights violations, but it has been for decades. And it isn't changing any time soon, I can get pissed about it all I want, but I can only express my outrage so many times before I'm literally repeating myself. This is such a hot-button issue because this is something new. Oppressive regimes murder journalists. Oppressive regimes do sketchy things with their diplomats. Oppressive regimes lie on the national stage, and oppressive regimes are more likely to be a bit bolder with their antics.
But all of these things don't usually line up like this, this is something "new" in the way that the manner in which this played out was somewhat atypical.

I actually have come to the same conclusion as you stated...I’m not personally worn down from desensitization, it’s more the fact that I’m not surprised. It is atypical but the media is strictly monitored in Saudi Arabia right now so it makes sense (in a bad way) that journalists are extremely vulnerable there and certainly not protected. I don’t think the Saudi Arabian government wanted to make a political statement by killing this guy -they just don’t care that it came to light