Alleged Murder of Turkish Journalist in Saudi embassy

[NateFalcon]

I don't think that's how this works. You can't make an extremely bold claim, have someone tell you that they're not going to believe you without evidence, and then say they're the ones who have to prove you wrong.


No - you're very predictably trying to make this about American politics and saying that any outrage for the murder and dismemberment of a journalist employed by a US politician is purely a pretext for faulting Trump for something new.

Well that’s how it works with me -its an extremely true fact, not a claim...I couldn’t care less whether you ‘believe’ me or not. Not providing you statistics doesn’t make me a default “liar”, or wrong because you choose to not to look up the facts yourself. Believe me, don’t believe me...(sorry for off-track side points lol)...and you’re right, it’s NOT about American politics but in the FIRST POST you mention Trump helping to “cover it up”...(do I need to provide the screenshot as “proof”? Lol)...so yeah, I’m just going off of YOUR OWN WORDS. Or am I totally wrong?

 

[StevenC]

Well that’s how it works with me -its an extremely true fact, not a claim...I couldn’t care less whether you ‘believe’ me or not. Not providing you statistics doesn’t make me a default “liar”, or wrong because you choose to not to look up the facts yourself. Believe me, don’t believe me...(sorry for off-track side points lol)...and you’re right, it’s NOT about American politics but in the FIRST POST you mention Trump helping to “cover it up”...(do I need to provide the screenshot as “proof”? Lol)...so yeah, I’m just going off of YOUR OWN WORDS. Or am I totally wrong?

No good argument has ever included "I'm not providing evidence".

Side not: your alternative use of punctuation hurts my brain.

 

[NateFalcon]

No good argument has ever included "I'm not providing evidence".

Side not: your alternative use of punctuation hurts my brain.

The fact is still true...

 

[NateFalcon]

It wouldn’t matter if I provided proof or statistics -the same people would more than likely never admit I was correct on a point anyway...

 

[NateFalcon]

Lol...I’ll let you guys go back to agreeing with each other in circles and liking each other’s posts

 

[Xaios]

Fact: your reasoning is fallacious.

By the arguments you've presented, it is incumbent upon you, the party at whom my argument is directed, rather than me, the person making the argument, to provide proof that I'm wrong. Interestingly, as per the precedent established by this statement:

It wouldn’t matter if I provided proof or statistics -the same people would more than likely never admit I was correct on a point anyway...

...Even if I were to actually present solid evidence supporting my argument (not that the statements you've already made regarding this topic aren't evidence enough of that), you would probably elect to ignore it anyway.

I'll leave you to it.

 

[Randy]

Lol...I’ll let you guys go back to agreeing with each other in circles and liking each other’s posts

THANK you.

 

[Ordacleaphobia]

THANK you.

I agree with this post.

 

[Flappydoodle]

The Middle East is a veritable shitstorm of human rights violations, but it has been for decades. And it isn't changing any time soon, I can get pissed about it all I want, but I can only express my outrage so many times before I'm literally repeating myself. This is such a hot-button issue because this is something new. Oppressive regimes murder journalists. Oppressive regimes do sketchy things with their diplomats. Oppressive regimes lie on the national stage, and oppressive regimes are more likely to be a bit bolder with their antics.
But all of these things don't usually line up like this, this is something "new" in the way that the manner in which this played out was somewhat atypical.

Yup.

I liked Trump when he said we could all get out of the Middle East and leave them to their own devices. That would be fine with me. Not much reason to go there anyway. If we didn't need them for oil, we wouldn't even need to interact with them. I had hoped that by massively boosting US oil and energy production, it would lead to less dependence on the ME. But unfortunately, that is proving not to be the case. Every US president has promised to do something about it, and they all fail.

Conspiracy theory time: I wonder whether Saudi has some sort of other leverage. Obama wasn't a big fan, but he hardly took a stance against them. Potentially they have nukes, or other WMDs, which means we can't just let them collapse etc.

 

[narad]

btw, I actually went through the top 20 articles related to diplomatic immunity crimes in the US. The takeaway? One diplomat accused of sexual assault for rubbing against a woman in the subway, and a few diplomats skipping out on expensive rent. No murder. Not many instances. So file this claim under B for Bullshit.

 

[USMarine75]

Yes.

No. A "Princess of Agrabah" would be a member of head of state, not a foreign diplomat.

Now if we could just stop all these murdering Ambassadors...

http://legal.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_2_1963.pdf
^Here I posted this so you can be slightly more informed and less of a moron.

btw, I actually went through the top 20 articles related to diplomatic immunity crimes in the US. The takeaway? One diplomat accused of sexual assault for rubbing against a woman in the subway, and a few diplomats skipping out on expensive rent. No murder. Not many instances. So file this claim under B for Bullshit.

Beyond bullshit... it's xenophobic, racist, nationalism... and thinly veiled at that. It's putting the conclusion out there and then just making up facts to support it.

 

[narad]

No. A "Princess of Agrabah" would be a member of head of state, not a foreign diplomat.

I see, I see. Now what about Ariel. Is she a fish, or is she human? Is it legal to marry her?

 

[USMarine75]

I see, I see. Now what about Ariel. Is she a fish, or is she human? Is it legal to marry her?

Only the block letter version...

 

[Drew]

Well that’s how it works with me -its an extremely true fact, not a claim...I couldn’t care less whether you ‘believe’ me or not. Not providing you statistics doesn’t make me a default “liar”, or wrong because you choose to not to look up the facts yourself. Believe me, don’t believe me...(sorry for off-track side points lol)...and you’re right, it’s NOT about American politics but in the FIRST POST you mention Trump helping to “cover it up”...(do I need to provide the screenshot as “proof”? Lol)...so yeah, I’m just going off of YOUR OWN WORDS. Or am I totally wrong?

With all due respect, you're wrong.

If you want to make a sensational claim ("foreign ambassadors roll around our country all the time committing crimes, including homicide!"), then it's on you to back that claim up, at least if you want to be taken seriously. It's also not really feasible to prove a negation (what exactly would 100% concrete proof that foreign ambassadors are NOT going on murder sprees in America look like?), which makes this argumentative style of "I believe this absurd thing is true, PROVE ME WRONG!!" even more transparently trolling, and makes me wonder why you're being allowed to participate in this forum in the first place.

And you're right, in passing, in my OP, I did mention that Trump was denying this was the work of Saudi Arabia. Trump has since backtracked, thankfully. If all you took from my original post was the half sentence that alluded to Trump, at that time, backing the Saudi cover story, then you need to dial back the fixation.

 

[David Palmer]

Yup.

I liked Trump when he said we could all get out of the Middle East and leave them to their own devices. That would be fine with me. Not much reason to go there anyway. If we didn't need them for oil, we wouldn't even need to interact with them. I had hoped that by massively boosting US oil and energy production, it would lead to less dependence on the ME. But unfortunately, that is proving not to be the case. Every US president has promised to do something about it, and they all fail.

Conspiracy theory time: I wonder whether Saudi has some sort of other leverage. Obama wasn't a big fan, but he hardly took a stance against them. Potentially they have nukes, or other WMDs, which means we can't just let them collapse etc.

The only leverage the Saudis have is their heavy hand on Oil production and its effect on the World Energy market.

The problem is it's a card that they can only play once. If they decided to act foolishly and push up the price of Oil, the backlash would be catastrophic for them. Sanctions would cripple their Oil dependent economy and with the loss of US/EU support via sanctions, their Military will weaken considerably.

This would set the stage for a potential conflict with a Russia backed Iran and judging by their ridiculous performance in Yemen, Iran would make short work of Saudi Arabia.

The Saudis need to remove the Prince, he is clearly a tyrant.

 

[Cabinet]

The only leverage the Saudis have is their heavy hand on Oil production and its effect on the World Energy market.

The problem is it's a card that they can only play once. If they decided to act foolishly and push up the price of Oil, the backlash would be catastrophic for them. Sanctions would cripple their Oil dependent economy and with the loss of US/EU support via sanctions, their Military will weaken considerably.

This would set the stage for a potential conflict with a Russia backed Iran and judging by their ridiculous performance in Yemen, Iran would make short work of Saudi Arabia.

The Saudis need to remove the Prince, he is clearly a tyrant.

Additionally, Iran seeks a capitalist system like China - open to global trade. If Iran's political future becomes sustainable, it can begin to effectively make use of its resource rich terrain.

 

[David Palmer]

btw, I actually went through the top 20 articles related to diplomatic immunity crimes in the US. The takeaway? One diplomat accused of sexual assault for rubbing against a woman in the subway, and a few diplomats skipping out on expensive rent. No murder. Not many instances. So file this claim under B for Bullshit.

You missed one. Do you recall when Turkeys Recep Tayyiip Erdogan came to the US by invitation of President Trump? If not, I'll recap.. His motorcade stopped next to some anti-Erdogan protesters. About fifteen or twenty goons get out of the cars, and attack the protesters..in front of news cameras. Some of his security guys were arrested but then released via d.i card.

Diplomatic immunity is absolute b.s,imo.

 

[David Palmer]

Additionally, Iran seeks a capitalist system like China - open to global trade. If Iran's political future becomes sustainable, it can begin to effectively make use of its resource rich terrain.

The whole thing with Iran is quite amazing to me. After 9/11, Iran was literally one of the first Countries to pledge support to the US, which was swiftly rejected by the Bush Administration. Nevermind the fundamentalist zombies who attacked the US came from Saudi Arabia. Adding to that, Saudi Arabia's ultra-conservative Sunni message of world domination gifted the world with Isis and continues to spew hate and fear all around the world.

We live in a strange time.

 

[narad]

You missed one. Do you recall when Turkeys Recep Tayyiip Erdogan came to the US by invitation of President Trump? If not, I'll recap.. His motorcade stopped next to some anti-Erdogan protesters. About fifteen or twenty goons get out of the cars, and attack the protesters..in front of news cameras. Some of his security guys were arrested but then released via d.i card.

Diplomatic immunity is absolute b.s,imo.

Regarding this incident:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clashes_at_the_Turkish_Ambassador's_Residence_in_Washington,_D.C.

On June 6, 2017, the U.S. House of Representatives called for the members of the security detail who were involved in the melee to be brought to justice.[21] The resolution, which passed in a unanimous 397-0 vote, called for "any Turkish security official who directed or participated in efforts by Turkish security forces to suppress peaceful protests outside of the Turkish ambassador's residence" to be charged and prosecuted under U.S. law.[6] The measure was similar to a Senate demand to waive diplomatic immunity for security forces involved in the assault.[21]

Charges were dropped, but not because of immunity.

You are fined 7 narad-minutes for not providing a link, making me Google this, and ultimately not being accurate.

 

[David Palmer]

Regarding this incident:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clashes_at_the_Turkish_Ambassador's_Residence_in_Washington,_D.C.

On June 6, 2017, the U.S. House of Representatives called for the members of the security detail who were involved in the melee to be brought to justice.[21] The resolution, which passed in a unanimous 397-0 vote, called for "any Turkish security official who directed or participated in efforts by Turkish security forces to suppress peaceful protests outside of the Turkish ambassador's residence" to be charged and prosecuted under U.S. law.[6] The measure was similar to a Senate demand to waive diplomatic immunity for security forces involved in the assault.[21]

Charges were dropped, but not because of immunity.

You are fined 7 narad-minutes for not providing a link, making me Google this, and ultimately not being accurate.

So diplomatic immunity wasn't the reason why agents working on behalf of a foreign regime were not charged with assaulting US citizens, live on television during peaceful protests. I stand corrected.

I guess it was a blind assumption on my part. It's not every day a mob attacks innocent people, said mob arrested, then released to flee back to their Country of origin.

*throws narad-minutes in trash bin*