Alternate Picking versus Economy Picking?

[Andless]

"Versus" implies competition... there is no versus. Drill vs. hammer, which do you prefer? or both? Which should I buy?

The hammer ofcourse!

Then everything will become nails

 

[redstone]

All in all, I guess it's a matter of character. I recommend focusing on alt picking if you're an adrenaline whore who strives for phrasing diversity at high speed. Here's why :

- When it comes to "shred", alt picking is way more exhilarating. Once you become an advanced alt picker, you realize that sweeping isn't physically and emotionally satisfying at high speed. Too many notes for too few moves. Depends how much you're physically invested...

- You can't be a great economy picker without mastering inside and outside picking. Yet, once you fully master them, you don't need to rely on sweep picking anymore (not many examples yet but that's true nonetheless). And guess what's the best way to master them.. Alt picking arpeggios. (However, learning to mix inside outside and sweep still requires a specific training)

- [down the rabbit hole] sweeping strings can't allow to skip strings many times in a row above half your potential alternate picking speed since you have to spend a full gestural cycle to skip something when sweeping, no matter how you mix your gestures, while alternate picking 1note/string oversteps easily such limits if you know how to practice it (half cycle per skip). That's hundred of times more detrimental for your phrasing diversity than not being able to arpeggiate above the alternate picking speed. [/down the rabbit hole]

That said, economy picking almost only requires patience and discipline to learn, while alternate picking (arpeggios and all) requires either lots and lots of luck or knowledge.

 

[AshtonXIII]

"Versus" implies competition... there is no versus. Drill vs. hammer, which do you prefer? or both? Which should I buy?

You're really dumb. Look up the definition and it will say "as opposed to".

 

[AxeHappy]

I economy pick far more often, but am fully capable of alt picking accurately and quickly.

Learn both. Having more tools in the box is always good.

 

[flint757]

I use economy picking personally. I can still get whatever dynamic I need while doing so as well. Hitting the string from the bottom or top doesn't solely determine that anyhow. It's how much force you put into it.

 

[Konfyouzd]

I use economy picking personally. I can still get whatever dynamic I need while doing so as well. Hitting the string from the bottom or top doesn't solely determine that anyhow. It's how much force you put into it.

power and timing...

 

[80H]

You're really dumb. Look up the definition and it will say "as opposed to".

perhaps it would suit you well to look up the definition of "implies" before you start getting disrespectful on a forum centered around communal learning

 

[Konfyouzd]

 

[viesczy]

When you have both hands synchronized to the point where they sound like a playing card in the spokes of a bike that is going 100 mph, then progress to other picking styles. Until then, always work on your alt picking.

I still warm up doing alt picking drills. A few of the 96 various 4 note per string/finger drills and then Scarified in one of 3 positions.

Not working/keeping up on alt picking is like not breathing.

Derek

 

[redstone]

Also, the reality is far from what the rumor says about alt picking being too rough to replace sweep picking. Even if I sweep as gently as possible in mid gain / bridge pickup mode,

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/humanseeming/alternate-vs-economy-not-much-differences[/SC]

I don't think anyone would notice I'm alt picking everything in a mix unless I palm mute everything.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

Do you prefer alternate or economy picking? Or both? Which should I learn?

Both. When I alt pick, I prefer to start on an upstroke versus the typical downstroke.

 

[karjim]

When you have both hands synchronized to the point where they sound like a playing card in the spokes of a bike that is going 100 mph, then progress to other picking styles. Until then, always work on your alt picking.

I still warm up doing alt picking drills. A few of the 96 various 4 note per string/finger drills and then Scarified in one of 3 positions.

Not working/keeping up on alt picking is like not breathing.

Derek

I do exactly the same thing, except it's Technical Difficulties and Vivaldi 4 seasons....not the Mustaine one
I really like 2 notes per string to warm up too...It relax my right hand and synchronize the other...3 notes per string is still the hardest trick for me, I bust my ass as soon as I have 15 minutes free at home...So Vivaldi

 

[OmegaSlayer]

Also, the reality is far from what the rumor says about alt picking being too rough to replace sweep picking. Even if I sweep as gently as possible in mid gain / bridge pickup mode,

[SC]https://soundcloud.com/humanseeming/alternate-vs-economy-not-much-differences[/SC]

I don't think anyone would notice I'm alt picking everything in a mix unless I palm mute everything.

That goes very much in how you want to sound like.
It's a matter of preference and...it's really good to be able to do both, then choose your way.
Guthrie prefers tapping to sweep BUT he's able to sweep.
Christian Muenzner was a very good sweeper but due to his problem with the mid finger he had to resort to tapping.
When you're a monster with both you can say that you prefer how a techniqie sounds instead of another, otherwise you're simply unable to due one technique as good as the other.

Since we're at it, what do you consider "fast"?
1/16 at what bpm?

 

[redstone]

Since we're at it, what do you consider "fast"?
1/16 at what bpm?

I don't consider speed in terms of notes per second but gestural frequency ; I'd say (being, not sounding) fast ≈ 6-8 gfps , 9+ is very fast.

Which means fast alt picked arpeggios ≈180-240 bpm
Fast sweep picked arpeggios ≈ not going to happen, sweep picking is a slow motion.

A fast alt picker IMO should be able to play anything above 180 bpm, so I'm still a bit slow, especially with those stupid violin-like arpeggios

[YOUTUBEVID]ckNsJYTNUcg[/YOUTUBEVID]

 

[Maniacal]

I would say fast would be 180 16ths for 3 minutes straight.

 

[Andless]

Which means fast alt picked arpeggios ≈180-240 bpm
Fast sweep picked arpeggios ≈ not going to happen, sweep picking is a slow motion.

I'm the first to admit, alt picking arpeggios @ 1/16 @ 180? Not quite there yet, I've got some work to do still...

Edit: Although, inside-outside picking when alt picking arpeggios never bothered me much. Never thought that would be something difficult until I heard someone say it is.

 

[All_¥our_Bass]

I use a combination of economy and directional picking for almost everything that is a string of single notes, deliberate downstrokes for accents and chords, and of course the occasional upstroked chord(s).

I never really thought about it at all when I was learning, I merely aimed to make my picking movements efficient.

I can't really recommend anything in particular, since I am far, FAR from a deity when it comes to picking.

 

[OmegaSlayer]

I don't consider speed in terms of notes per second but gestural frequency ; I'd say (being, not sounding) fast ≈ 6-8 gfps , 9+ is very fast.

Which means fast alt picked arpeggios ≈180-240 bpm
Fast sweep picked arpeggios ≈ not going to happen, sweep picking is a slow motion.

A fast alt picker IMO should be able to play anything above 180 bpm, so I'm still a bit slow, especially with those stupid violin-like arpeggios

Damn you for putting in my mind this silly alternate picking arpeggios stuff
I found myself doing it.
Wasn't very clean but immediately at decent speed.
It has its "reasons" but I prefer using a 2 notes per string shape skipping a string than using a classic standard sweep shape.
By the way, what do you mean with "gfps"?

I would say fast would be 180 16ths for 3 minutes straight.

Love how you put it in the 3 minutes windows frame

 

[redstone]

gf means gestural (or gesture ?) frequency, gfps is how many times you can repeat the same action per second..

Edit: Although, inside-outside picking when alt picking arpeggios never bothered me much. Never thought that would be something difficult until I heard someone say it is.

Yeah it isn't difficult per se, but in order to play it fast and learn quickly there are many traps which are difficult to detect and avoid.

 

[Spaced Out Ace]

I asked in the chat earlier if I was the only one to prefer starting alt picking patterns with an upstroke, and I was glad to find out that I am not alone in that regard, though a few of them had different circumstances where they did this, whereas I generally find that I do it for most if not all alt picked ideas as far as leads go.