Animals As Leaders MEGATHREAD

[Doug N]

How would that ruin it for you? They don't even have an actual bassist in the band, bass was programmed on all their previous works for the most part as well. So why is it a surprise now? And it's not fake, it's just programmed.

Drums were programmed in the previous albums, but I'm pretty sure they're real on this entirely.

When I was listening to the album I was getting off on how dialed in the rhythm section was, given the somewhat difficult time signatures. I understand that even when humans are playing the music that it can be made easy in the studio but listening to programmed bass lines isn't the same. Bummer.

 

[Doug N]

But it was played on an instrument, all the samples of bass that exist in software like Trillian or Zombass were recorded with an actual bass, with real strings, by a real person. It's not 'computer-generated', it's just real sounds being triggered through MIDI.

But a real person and a real bass didn't record the songs on the album. That's not a value judgement that's the reality, right. I know Nolly knows how to play bass, but a person who's never played bass could have done what's been done on the majority of the songs. I'm not criticizing people who are cool with that, but I dislike that approach to making records.

 

[asher]

But a real person and a real bass didn't record the songs on the album. That's not a value judgement that's the reality, right. I know Nolly knows how to play bass, but a person who's never played bass could have done what's been done on the majority of the songs. I'm not criticizing people who are cool with that, but I dislike that approach to making records.

Well, not most of them. Some of them do have 100% played bass tracks - see a page or two back.

 

[Mayhew]

The bass playing is sick on this album. Filthy sick.

You may dislike the approach in theory but in reality you also thought it sounded sick, filthy sick. Sounds to me like their approach works for you and perhaps it's time to re-evaluate your thoughts on the subject. I'm all about the finished project and if it sounds good, ya done good to me. And yes this album is definitely filthy sick whether through the wizardry of computers or the wizardry of their fingers.

 

[liberascientia]

But a real person and a real bass didn't record the songs on the album. That's not a value judgement that's the reality, right. I know Nolly knows how to play bass, but a person who's never played bass could have done what's been done on the majority of the songs. I'm not criticizing people who are cool with that, but I dislike that approach to making records.

Aye, it's true that most of the bass tracks weren't recorded by a real person or bass, that's factual, but what's in question is whether that actually matters. Like the dude above me said, it's all about the end result, and the end result in this case is, in my opinion, one of the hugest sounding releases of the last few years.

 

[Captain Butterscotch]

Get ready for a 3 page SS.org style thread derailment on the values of musicianship and how modern music is pissing on it.

 

[JoeyBTL]

Likes band with no bass player...
Surprised when real bass isn't on all the songs.

 

[ROAR]

Some of you guys are real specific on how you like getting those vibrations in the air.
How silly.
"What is the source of this wave?! A human? A computer?"

It's like you forgot there was even a song to hum along with.

 

[Alberto7]

I find that "The end result is the only thing that matters" is quite an extremist approach, really. I do get off on knowing that some incredibly skilled individual did that stuff. It's half of the reason I watch YouTube videos of people playing guitar. HOWEVER, it's not a make-or-break deal for me. I'm forgiving with this stuff. In being forgiving with it, I find myself enjoying way more things than I would otherwise.

In this album's case, I know what to expect from AAL. So whether or not those bass lines were programmed does not really detract from my enjoyment of it. I also came to the realization that my favorite thing about this whole album is how the electronic parts accentuate the whole thing and the atmosphere they create, and those are all programmed.

 

[fungwabus117]

I find that "The end result is the only thing that matters" is quite an extremist approach, really. I do get off on knowing that some incredibly skilled individual did that stuff. It's half of the reason I watch YouTube videos of people playing guitar. HOWEVER, it's not a make-or-break deal for me. I'm forgiving with this stuff. In being forgiving with it, I find myself enjoying way more things than I would otherwise.

In this album's case, I know what to expect from AAL. So whether or not those bass lines were programmed does not really detract from my enjoyment of it. I also came to the realization that my favorite thing about this whole album is how the electronic parts accentuate the whole thing and the atmosphere they create, and those are all programmed.

Exactly. At the end of the day, this is all purely creation. It would be slightly different if the players couldn't play the programmed parts, but that is very obviously not the case, so what's to complain about? If creative expression is the bottom line in a situation like this, it shouldn't matter what the approach was, programmed or not.

 

[InfinityCollision]

When I was listening to the album I was getting off on how dialed in the rhythm section was, given the somewhat difficult time signatures. I understand that even when humans are playing the music that it can be made easy in the studio but listening to programmed bass lines isn't the same. Bummer.

None of this was recorded as a full band. They had the opportunity to manipulate and/or re-record every single portion of every part of every song as much as they wanted. The distinction you're drawing is entirely meaningless. If you want to appreciate a band's cohesion, I'd recommend viewing a live performance of that band in the manner of your choosing or putting on something very different from modern metal.

 

[Jonathan20022]

I mean, if this turns you off from the band and it's release, then you really shouldn't look into how some of your other favorite bands record their music.

And fake implies that something is just that, a hoax or a trick. The members and the people involved have been up front and honest about the entire approach to the album. And the band can go above and beyond and play what is on the album, so what's the problem here?

 

[wankerness]

It doesn't turn me off from the music at all in any way, I just am curious to know how things were produced and it seems like making weird statements like how it's actually real bass cause it's real samples played via midi makes no sense to me. Sounds to me like three tracks are real and the rest is fake, cool, let's just call a spade a spade. Now I'm curious why the other tracks are fake instead of played, was it just that it would have taken too long or taken too much tweaking to get the sound right vs programming it? Since they don't have a bass player in this band this is a totally legit excuse. I'm just interested in the recording of it and why they chose to do it.

Catch 33 is one of my favorite albums, the fact the drums are all fake makes no difference to me.

 

[Doug N]

If you want to appreciate a band's cohesion, I'd recommend viewing a live performance of that band in the manner of your choosing or putting on something very different from modern metal.

Thanks for the recommendation, i just saw Scale the Summit and Ocean live a couple weeks ago, they tore it up. They made a couple mistakes, like humans sometimes do.

 

[jimwratt]

It's not the physical object being used but the intelligence behind it. As long as the music being made is informed, cultivated, and developed it lends itself to its own technique.

 

[toothbrush]

And the band can go above and beyond and play what is on the album, so what's the problem here?

This.

Catch 33 is one of my favorite albums, the fact the drums are all fake makes no difference to me.

And this.



This music-recording ethics debate has always intrigued me. I could type a hefty response with all of my thoughts on the matter, but there's already been plenty of good discussion on this topic. I will at least chime in and say that one should keep in mind that bands from 40, 50, and even 60 years ago more often than not recorded all at once as a band. Lots of very old rock LP's were essentially live recordings. Then things become a little more streamlined: one instrument records at once, but was a full one-take recording of the entire song. So, much older bands of this time might look at bands now and think that recording small take after small take, instrument by instrument, is unethical and represents a lack of musicianship. And hey, now we're here in 2014 with quantized/triggered drums, pitch-shifted vocals, even recording at half-speed, and so on... Is it bad? I don't know. I personally don't think so. I will quote Bulb here and agree with his stance: anything goes in the studio. But if you're also gonna play live, then I'd sure as hell hope you can accurately play your own music in a live setting.

 

[tomsargent]

The bass might have been programmed at parts, but the drums were all human and all sick! I was perusing Youtube today for some new inspiration for drum lessons, and I came across a baby-faced Matt Garstka doing some groovy Gospel style drumming.

 

[jimwratt]

I heard they aren't using "real" amps or pedals either. Oh noes!!!

 

[Slunk Dragon]

Next they won't even be using real musicians, it'll all be holograms. Then we'll have stuff like a holographic Elvis and Tupac an- *shot*

 

[Floppystrings]

Next they won't even be using real musicians, it'll all be holograms. Then we'll have stuff like a holographic Elvis and Tupac an- *shot*

"Tupac walks out on stage with 8 string"

*Crowd goes potato*