Another mass shooting in America

[chickenxnuggetz91]

That's crap. A concerned citizen shooting/killing somebody after they've shot and killed other people is moot. If nobody had the guns in the first place, nobody would have been shot/killed. If the point is to save lives, arming everyone is the worst possible idea anyone could conceive.

You kind of missed the point. Criminals don't follow the law. The kid wasn't old enough to own a firearm, but had one anyway. I live in a dangerous part of Mississippi. I like to think that if someone busted up into my house with the intent of hurting my family I could protect them. I realize that other countries are happier with where they live, but here people take their anger out on their neighbors, but not just with firearms.

 

[Konfyouzd]

Home invasions and public shootings are slightly different. More lead thrown ups the possibility of injuring bystanders. I like guns and all but in practice, arming everyone would go poorly.

 

[chickenxnuggetz91]

Hi Ryan, thanks for your response. I have considered the other side of the coin, the argument is that nutters with guns open fire and kill people, and it's solved by more guns, but that involves a lot of people dying in the first place. How successful was the armed response here? Is this incident a success in terms of armed response, with those children dead? Should teachers have access to guns? What for safety in terms of children getting hold of them then? The problem seems to be all the guns.

If no-one had a gun the nutter wouldn't be firing in the first place. Check out British gun control and how many gun crimes there are. You've gotta think *What kind of country would we want to be* and start working towards that, somehow, no matter how small the first steps.

You have a point for the UK. However, in the USA, at least where I live, there are legitimate gangs who never follow the law. The only thing stopping them from busting up into everyones house is the fact that we are crazy rednecks with guns who know how to aim. It's scary knowing that there is a possibility that my right to bear arms, as a law abiding citizen, will be taken from me and that law breaking criminals will still have them, because they obtain them illegally in the first place.

Also, the kid in Connecticut was not of a legal age to own a firearm. Connecticut already has strict gun laws. This did not stop him. The victims were teachers and kids. KIDS DON'T HAVE GUNS! I'm not saying they should, but as far as your argument saying that an armed response wasn't successful doesn't mean much. Kids are defenseless. When do teachers think, "I need to carry a gun"? They expect the day to go just like any other.

Yes, this is a tragic incident, but it happened at the wrong place. The only people who are saying that we should have no guns are the ones who don't have to face the threat of a criminal everyday. Obama (no, I'm not Republican) can easily say that we need to get rid of guns, because he is protected by people with guns. They won't have their guns taken away. Neither will the gangsters in Jackson. One, because the police don't do shit around here. Two, because they are GANGSTERS!

Now, I will bombard you with a few cliché's.
If guns kill people, then why don't people die at gun shows.
If guns were illegal.... then criminals and tyrants would possess them all.
How is taking away everyone else's rights going to stop people who are not legally supposed to have a firearm?
Since we're thinking of making guns illegal, why don't we make meth and pot illegal.......oh, wait.

I'm not picking on you. I'm just making my points to everyone that thinks making guns illegal is going to solve safety issues. These anti-gun laws may work in the UK, but I live in the southeastern part of United States. I need my gun.

 

[chickenxnuggetz91]

Home invasions and public shootings are slightly different. More lead thrown ups the possibility of injuring bystanders. I like guns and all but in practice, arming everyone would go poorly.

I'm not saying we should arm everyone. No one ever did. I don't know where people get off saying that we think everyone should carry a gun. That is not the case, because not everyone should obviously. Home invasion and public shooting are not different. A criminal bust up into my house with a gun, he obtained illegally while it is legal to own firearms. He should have gone through the process like us law abiding citizens do to get one. He didn't because he doesn't obey the law. That's why he's trying to murder my family in the first place. I like to think that I can protect my loved ones and myself.

What happened in Connecticut was unexpected. Usually when things like this happen in the south they usually hire security to people who need the job. Automatically, violence in schools drops. Got a guy who just left the military and needs a job? Give him a security position in a school. This would also discourage drug deals in the bathrooms. But, you didn't hear that from me.

 

[flint757]

Obama hasn't really stood against gun rights.

While I agree some areas are loaded with crime (like where I go to school) and a gun could very well be the only thing stopping them in your area, you can't be absolutely certain and as such come off as more paranoid than anything.

If there were no guns (not advocating that position, but setting the scenario) it isn't like there aren't other ways to defend your home. Like people have said over and over in this thread everything in your house is a weapon. Plus, if your area is that bad you should probably get an alarm system. Yes, the cops won't get there in time, but it is a deterrent and also means they can't make off with everything in your home. If your at home the alarm system will go off if someone busts in too which again will deter some of the supposed crime.

If crime is really that bad in your area what stops them from breaking into your house mid day? Me thinks you're exaggerating a bit.

 

[Konfyouzd]

My bad. Your point is more that we shouldn't take them from everyone just because folks can't handle thr responsibility (obviously a nicer way of putting it). With that I can agree. At the same time I own many guns and have more or less never needed them for anything but target practice.

 

[Watty]

Home invasion and public shooting are not different. A criminal bust up into my house with a gun, he obtained illegally while it is legal to own firearms. He should have gone through the process like us law abiding citizens do to get one. I like to think that I can protect my loved ones and myself.

1) I'll assume you're a responsible gun owner.
2) You keep your gun locked in a safe, with the key "hidden."
3) You keep your ammunition in a separate location whether locked or no.
4) Thief breaks in and threatens you in the space of 15 seconds.

Remind me how having a gun locked away in a safe, which is the only real way to store it without a freak accident, will provide you ANY recourse at all in a home invasion? Take for example the craigslist killing over a diamond ring (happened within walking distance of my house). Man shows up with a gun to rob him after agreeing to pay. He may have owned a gun, but didn't expect trouble and so didn't think to "have it ready." He's now dead.

A thief is never going to allow you the time to "level" the playing field, so this argument is completely moot in all of its forms.

What happened in Connecticut was unexpected. Usually when things like this happen in the south they usually hire security to people who need the job. Automatically, violence in schools drops.

There have been something like 8 mass shootings in the last 8 years. This is now an occurrence that is far from "unexpected." The who, what, where, and why might be up for grabs in any case, but people are people and thus these things will continue to happen. There's no need for us as a society to make it easier for the perpetrator to do so.

 

[chickenxnuggetz91]

Obama hasn't really stood against gun rights.

While I agree some areas are loaded with crime (like where I go to school) and a gun could very well be the only thing stopping them in your area, you can't be absolutely certain and as such come off as more paranoid than anything.

If there were no guns (not advocating that position, but setting the scenario) it isn't like there aren't other ways to defend your home. Like people have said over and over in this thread everything in your house is a weapon. Plus, if your area is that bad you should probably get an alarm system. Yes, the cops won't get there in time, but it is a deterrent and also means they can't make off with everything in your home. If your at home the alarm system will go off if someone busts in too which again will deter some of the supposed crime.

If crime is really that bad in your area what stops them from breaking into your house mid day? Me thinks you're exaggerating a bit.

You are right. Obama has not, as of yet, straight up said we need to get rid of guns. I was just saying it would be easy for him to say. I am paranoid. I'm weak and defenseless. True, I could use anything else in my house as a weapon. But what good is a kitchen knife against a handgun? I'm not Crocodile Dundee. Alarm system? My dogs are do a pretty good job. Also, like you said, the cops would not get there in time. People do break into houses midday here. When did I ever say they only broke in at night? I exaggerate? You should see the news from Jackson. You're from Houston, right? I would have expected the problems to be much worse.

Bottom line. I want to keep my gun for my family's protection and my own. However, it's not like I jump for the gun safe every time there is a knock on the door or when the dogs bark.

 

[Konfyouzd]

Gun safety courses warn against underestimating an attacker w a knife. Some ppl can't aim from 3 yds away. If you think you might die anyway you might as well try.

 

[chickenxnuggetz91]

Gun safety courses warn against underestimating an attacker w a knife. Some ppl can't aim from 3 yds away. If you think you might die anyway you might as well try.

I have better chances with a gun. You own guns. Do you want those to be illegal? Or are you arguing for the sake of arguing? Not trying to talk down on you.

 

[Konfyouzd]

I have a machete too and know my house better than a potential attacker. I also live alone and think ab these things rather regularly. I have no reason to be paranoid. My guns are for sport first and foremost and defense in the absolute worst case scenario. I also own dogs AND a home security system.

You can have my guns. They won't make or break me.

 

[chickenxnuggetz91]

I have a machete too and know my house better than a potential attacker. I also live alone and think ab these things rather regularly. I have no reason to be paranoid. My guns are for sport first and foremost and defense in the absolute worst case scenario. I also own dogs AND a home security system.

You can have my guns. They won't make or break me.

I know I'm about to sound like a crazy redneck/ right wing nut job. Here's all I can think. They take the guns. Ok. Now let's entertain the notion that we live in a world where criminals can't get guns even if they want them. So they use knives and machetes to chop little kids up. People cry out, "KNIFE BAN". Am I being far-fetched?

 

[Konfyouzd]

That's a similar point to one myself and others have attempted to.make earlier in the thread.

 

[chickenxnuggetz91]

That's a similar point to one myself and others have attempted to.make earlier in the thread.

You have your own point of view. So far I can't quite tell where you stand. I usually don't speak out on political issues, because well...fuck I really couldn't give a shit what or who someone marries. If a woman wants to abort her unborn child, that's her right to make that decision. But, I feel the need to make a stand on this. I'm grateful however, I can at least discuss this with people who won't tear me to shreds just for having a different opinion. Glad there is a forum of patient, open-minded people here.

 

[Konfyouzd]

My position is that ppl think there's a definite solution to ending violence and no matter what people do or don't have they'll do what they have to to achieve the desired results. Been saying that for several pages now. I don't gun control as *the* issue. People need better SELF control. No number of bans on objects will stop ppl from doing bad things. They're bad people.

I also don't feel I'm necessarily safer w a gun. I can still be killed. I just have the peace of mind of knowing I *could* defend myself which I can do with or without a gun. If someone breaks into your house to take things and has a gun and you don't, material possessions aren't worth your life. Let em fuckin have it.

 

[lurgar]

I also don't feel I'm necessarily safer w a gun. I can still be killed. I just have the peace of mind of knowing I *could* defend myself which I can do with or without a gun.

At least you understand that a gun is not holy protection against "bad guys." Too many people just on my Facebook friends list think that more and more guns is the answer. I'm sure they're envisioning a scenario from a comedy movie where a bad guy walks in dressed like a bad guy and acts in a very bad guy manner. As he announces his presence, he slowly draws a gun out all dramatically and then before he can even finish, the camera zooms out and he has 15 guns pointed back at him. Haha, what a silly guy. The reality of a situation is that the people doing the shooting aren't that obvious and I cannot imagine that in a life or death situation that more people with itchy trigger fingers looking for a shooter while themselves holding out guns would come out as a very good scenario.

Also, weren't a lot of people recently talking about how teachers are overpaid and had too many benefits? It's tangential, but I find it appalling that we can demonize teachers and their unions and then turn around and lift them up as heroes after a tragedy. Perhaps we should give teachers hazard pay now that school shootings are a little more common? Just a thought.

Back on topic, I really wish the US could get over it's gun worship so at least we can have a discussion about this topic that may address some shortcomings we have as a nation. I really think that if we could work on addressing how we perceive mental illness and how it's treated (especially through insurance) we might be able to prevent some people from going off the deep end.

 

[benduncan]

i didnt read any of this but heres a point that id like to add, which may have been said

think of all the guns being bought, sold, produced over the decades. if we would have enacted gun laws in the 50s there would be FAR fewer guns in existence here and it would just plain be much harder to get one, less guns in the hands of bad people

MY TWO MOTHER EFFIN CENTS!!!!

 

[Scar Symmetry]

Memo to 'murica: this shit has to stop. Everyone but gun enthusiasts think they are fucking stupid. They are not cool, they do not make you safer and because some guy with a beard way back when thought they were a good idea, does not mean that prevention of the death of thousands of people per year will somehow alter America's identity for the worse.

 

[Konfyouzd]

I'm not an enthusiast and I don't necessarily think they're stupid per se. Now some of the, "I have the right to own a deadly weapon bc others might," fear mongering is a little silly though. America never outgrew "cowboys and indians" in some places it seems.

 

[craigny]

As a parent, words cannot express how terrible i feel for those who lost loved ones or children. As a parent there is no greater horror. My heart goes out to the victims and anyone affected in this SENSLESS act including the poor children and adults who survived and that had to witness such a horrible thing.

IMO the big problem is how violent society has become...espically here in the US, im not going to even get into the whole gun debate, i know where i stand on that and i really dont need anyone else to know and nor would they care.....to me it has to start with changing peoples programing, violence is accepted and glorified in some instances...we need to start at the root of the problem. We are losing our way people. This is becoming a scary world to live in, and i fear the kind of world my children, or childrens children will live in when they get older. Again my thoughts and prayers go out to the victims.