Konfyouzd
Return of the Dread-I
Doing research =\= ratings!!!! 
Another mass shooting in America
- Thread starter fps
- Start date
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flint757
Well-Known Member
If they did research and kept their OPINIONS to themselves they'd have nothing to report.
But you're still not getting it... you take away the utensil from the crazy person, they can always find another one. The dude in China didn't have access to a gun, that didn't stop him from grabbing a knife and attacking 23 people with it, did it? You take away the pencil, what's to keep him from looking for a pen? He'll still be going for the same goal, he'll just find another way to pull it off. You can't rationalize with crazy, dude, that's what I'm saying.If the person is fucked in the head and they're looking to do something terrible, they WILL find a way to do it.
You have just said THIS
"Yeah I understand that part of it and not to continue to argue the point, but just because he wasn't successful in being lethal with the object doesn't change anything other than the victims will survive the attack."
Read that back. Do you think the families would settle for this? Do you think gun control would be worth it for this?
Once again, no-one ever talks about a 25 dead knife rampage. It's guns guns guns guns guns.
The Norsemen
A Viking
Fool, you could kill someone with that pencil. Should probably take those away too.
You could kill with your bare hands if you WANTED.
We give things purpose.
How long would it take to kill people with your bare hands? I seriously hope you're being sarcastic. Guns allow a disconnect between you and the people you're killing, that's why they're the perfect tool of the psychopath, your victims can't get near you, nothing can go wrong, you just point and click. If it's so easy to kill with your bare hands why does every mass murderer choose a gun?
HighGain510
Contributor
Did you read my post following that one? Stabbings aren't always non-lethal, go grab the statistic on how many are fatal and get back to me. I said IN THAT CASE, the victims were survivors. That's the only difference when directly comparing THOSE TWO CASES. Don't pick apart the posts using the pieces you feel like it to try to make yourself seem correct. You missed the point of the post completely.
With that I'm bowing out of this, I've already explained it clearly through several posts, so if you'd like to take the time to read all of them and not pick out just the pieces you felt like reading, it's there. No point in continuing to debate a point if you're going to keep your fingers in your ears and yell "LA-LA-LA-LA-LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!", I don't have the time or energy to deal with that.
No no, you provided evidence backing up my point of view, then presented it triumphantly as if it were the exception that proved the rule.
Gun- 25 dead
Knife- 23 alive
This does not advance your argument.
But you're still not getting it... you take away the utensil from the crazy person, they can always find another one. The dude in China didn't have access to a gun, that didn't stop him from grabbing a knife and attacking 23 people with it, did it? You take away the pencil, what's to keep him from looking for a pen? He'll still be going for the same goal, he'll just find another way to pull it off. You can't rationalize with crazy, dude, that's what I'm saying.
I get the analogy is imperfect but the point is, the gun is a VERY effective and efficient killing machine. If it weren't, why would people be arguing so strongly for their right to own one to defend themselves? After all, apparently knives and broken bottles are just as useful right? No, they're not because a gun is capable of killing at a further distance than a knife or other melee weapons, and obviously automatic/semi-automatic weapons have the ability to deliver their dose at a much faster rate than somebody could plunging a knife into somebody, then back out and into somebody else.
It's actually kinda silly that I have to explain this, TBH. Not to be insulting. But it's kinda obvious that a gun is a more effective weapon for killing large groups of people than a melee weapon...?
The only thing worse would probably be explosives, a lot of which can be constructed at home but guess what...? Those are illegal. I don't know whether there's a correlation or not but there aren't a lot of improvised explosives used in mass killings in the US. If there are, I'll go out on a limb and say they're responsible for a lot less of the fatal wounds inflicted on victims than bullets.
Konfyouzd
Return of the Dread-I
You can kill a man w your bare hands pretty fast if you know how or they accidentally fall the wrong way... 
It's not the tool. It's the intentions...
It's not the tool. It's the intentions...
You can kill a man w your bare hands pretty fast if you know how or they accidentally fall the wrong way...
It's not the tool. It's the intentions...
Randy above me has said it all. Soldiers do not go into war armed with their bare hands, they wouldn't be useful because of ALL THE GUNS. I actually don't understand you, you can't be serious.
flint757
Well-Known Member
Yes anything can kill anyone, but in terms of efficiency of time, execution and (if the intent is to kill) success rate I imagine a gun is significantly higher overall.
I have to agree with Randy. If a knife, hand-to-hand, bottle or whatever is going to be set equal to guns then no legal citizen needs guns because 'they can do just as much damage'. Next time a mugger has a gun to your face, no worries take him out with some kung fu.
If you think a gun is a handy thing for self defense then by admission you are saying it is far more effective.
I have to agree with Randy. If a knife, hand-to-hand, bottle or whatever is going to be set equal to guns then no legal citizen needs guns because 'they can do just as much damage'. Next time a mugger has a gun to your face, no worries take him out with some kung fu.
If you think a gun is a handy thing for self defense then by admission you are saying it is far more effective.
Konfyouzd
Return of the Dread-I
It's not equal. It's the fact that getting rid of guns wouldn't stop anything and arming everyone is just plain stupid.
My posts merely demonstrate the former. There's no need to compare weapons. Where would that get us?
My posts merely demonstrate the former. There's no need to compare weapons. Where would that get us?
MikeH
Bring the gain
On all of this bullshit arguing, let's see who can kill a large group of people quicker: Me in a full size pickup truck, or you with a handgun. In that case, we need more strict driving laws. These comparisons are ridiculous. This is why, other than the obvious tragedy, when something like this happens, I just hide my head and try to avoid the nonsense bickering in which everyone thinks they have the right answer to avoid any and all similar situations. 20 children died today, and all we can do is argue about who can kill how many with what more efficiently. Sickening.
These comparisons are ridiculous. This is why, other than the obvious tragedy, when something like this happens, I just hide my head and try to avoid the nonsense bickering in which everyone thinks they have the right answer to avoid any and all similar situations. 20 children died today, and all we can do is argue about who can kill how many with what more efficiently. Sickening.
MythicSquirrel
#menswear
The worst part about this shooting is the journalism. Seriously, I was reading an article where a 9 year old kid was recounting the events. I don't know about you guys, but if some guy from NBC asked my 9 year old son to tell him about how his school was just shot up, and everything that went through his mind when he heard the gunshots. The reporter would probably have a black eye.
Konfyouzd
Return of the Dread-I
Yea... Adults don't even wanna put up with that in most cases. It's got to be damn stressful on a child. It's amazing how some thrive on others' misfortune... Gotta get dem ratings, yo!
ballr4lyf
Well-Known Member
I've seen what guns can do. And I've seen what knives and "melee weapons" can do. I can tell you that the latter is more apt to turn your stomach.
We defend the right to keep and bear arms because we recognize, like the founding fathers of this nation, that the right is second only in importance to the freedom of speech, religion, and the press. But don't let that confuse you. We are absolutely right there with you when it comes to keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. We just know that all out bans did nothing to stop that before. Nor do more restrictive gun laws that only affect the law abiding citizen.
Guns exist now... There's no getting around it. Criminals will always find a way to get them.
P.S. @fps, I don't know if you responded to my post earlier or not... I'm jumping back and forth between a work project and this thread. I'm not intentionally ignoring you.
On all of this bullshit arguing, let's see who can kill a large group of people quicker: Me in a full size pickup truck, or you with a handgun. In that case, we need more strict driving laws.
If there had been a spate of incidents where large groups of people had been murdered by pickup trucks, maybe your point wouldn't come across as so misguided and poorly thought through. This discussion happens time and again after innocent people get killed and it gets derailed and nothing changes. I and many others are arguing for something to change that might mean people don't get shot, with guns, in mass murders any more. I find it sickening that people are so selfish they want to keep their guns even if it means things like this happen so often.
It's not a complicated issue. People keep on going into random locations with guns and shooting people. Therefore clearly people can get their hands on guns too easily. Therefore something has to be done to get guns out of circulation so families don't get torn apart like this.
It is irresponsible to just keep weeping on the sidelines and never ask what can be done to stop it happening again. I'm trying to have this discussion BECAUSE it's an abomination, and it keeps on happening, and some people need to wake up to the reasons why it keeps happening.
Konfyouzd
Return of the Dread-I
Oh and for the record... I couldn't care less about gun control for the reasons stated earlier in the thread. Taking them away won't help as those with the intent to use to to do harm will acquire them by the necessary means. And if they couldn't there'd be a new "most effective killer." What if he'd chosen explosives instead?
Allowing everyone to carry them doesn't guarantee that situations such as this would be handled any better either.
I think it's weird that folks will automatically jump to one of two extremes when something traumatic happens. There has to be an end all solution. I don't think one exists.
Personally I'd like to live in a world where people would be vigilant of those close to them and be mindful of possible red flags for things of this nature. Obviously you can't always know, but I feel like some ppl are obvious ticking time bombs. When we see this sort of thing as a possibility it'd be nice if we all cared enough about one another to point it out and try to get help for those with mental illnesses that drive them to do these sorts of things.
But I guess that sounds like hippy talk to some. Not immediately effective and so on...
Allowing everyone to carry them doesn't guarantee that situations such as this would be handled any better either.
I think it's weird that folks will automatically jump to one of two extremes when something traumatic happens. There has to be an end all solution. I don't think one exists.
Personally I'd like to live in a world where people would be vigilant of those close to them and be mindful of possible red flags for things of this nature. Obviously you can't always know, but I feel like some ppl are obvious ticking time bombs. When we see this sort of thing as a possibility it'd be nice if we all cared enough about one another to point it out and try to get help for those with mental illnesses that drive them to do these sorts of things.
But I guess that sounds like hippy talk to some. Not immediately effective and so on...
Sephiroth952
Ibby Fanboy
Where i went to school there was atleast 2-4 armed security in every school in the city, notably at my high school one in every corner of the building.They were also quite strict on who they let in and why. I think this practice really needs to start becoming routine everywhere, and we never even had a threat of a shooting ever occur, just prepared.
Konfyouzd
Return of the Dread-I
My high school only became that way after I graduated... But while I was there ppl could come and go as they pleased... In retrospect that's a bit creepy. 
