Another mass shooting in America

[MikeH]

I'll be leaving now. Bye!

 

[The Norsemen]

No shit guns are the most efficient thing to slaughter children and everything else.
We get it. Gun>Judo chop. Thanks for that.
It doesn't mean that's what they're all going to be used for.

Banning guns for all law abiding citizens because of these tragedies isn't going to stop them.

 

[fps]

Oh and for the record... I couldn't care less about gun control for the reasons stated earlier in the thread. Taking them away won't help as those with the intent to use to to do harm will acquire them by the necessary means. And if they couldn't there'd be a new "most effective killer." What if he'd chosen explosives instead?

Allowing everyone to carry them doesn't guarantee that situations such as this would be handled any better either.

I think it's weird that folks will automatically jump to one of two extremes when something traumatic happens. There has to be an end all solution. I don't think one exists.

Personally I'd like to live in a world where people would be vigilant of those close to them and be mindful of possible red flags for things of this nature. Obviously you can't always know, but I feel like some ppl are obvious ticking time bombs. When we see this sort of thing as a possibility it'd be nice if we all cared enough about one another to point it out and try to get help for those with mental illnesses that drive them to do these sorts of things.

But I guess that sounds like hippy talk to some. Not immediately effective and so on...

You clearly can't imagine a culture where people don't want to own guns, where there aren't guns to own, and as a result there aren't mass murders of this nature. It's about changing perceptions through small changes with time. You don't sound like a hippy at all, you just sound as if you believe that people have qualities they just don't have, that they have proven not to have all throughout history. You are suggesting a culture where every mass-murder is flukily avoided at the last minute by some person being in the right place at the right time, when the answer is putting a system in place where the mass-murder isn't possible in the first place because there's no access to the tools to carry it out.

 

[fps]

No shit guns are the most efficient thing to slaughter children and everything else.
We get it. Gun>Judo chop. Thanks for that.
It doesn't mean that's what they're all going to be used for.

Banning guns for all law abiding citizens because of these tragedies isn't going to stop them.

Isn't the fact that that's what SOME of them are going to be used for enough to have a serious review of gun ownership and introduce cutting restrictions on who can and cannot own them?

 

[Konfyouzd]

You clearly can't imagine a culture where people don't want to own guns, where there aren't guns to own, and as a result there aren't mass murders of this nature. It's about changing perceptions through small changes with time. You don't sound like a hippy at all, you just sound as if you believe that people have qualities they just don't have, that they have proven not to have all throughout history. You are suggesting a culture where every mass-murder is flukily avoided at the last minute by some person being in the right place at the right time, when the answer is putting a system in place where the mass-murder isn't possible in the first place because there's no access to the tools to carry it out.

Why the fuck are guns still the point?

I get that that's what carried this out and I get that they're effective killers; you can kill many people at once. But it's the evil people harbor in their hearts that leads to shit like this regardless of the tool chosen.

I'm out...

 

[fps]

Why the fuck are guns still the point?

I get that that's what carried this out and I get that they're effective killers; you can kill many people at once. But it's the evil people harbor in their hearts that leads to shit like this regardless of the tool chosen.

I'm out...

It takes evil, and a gun. It's not an either/or, it's both.

 

[Konfyouzd]

Okay...

 

[Char2000]

Wtf?

As a whole we are a pathetic excuse for a species.

Speak for yourself.

 

[fps]

Okay...

I'm not having mockery, I'm trying to have a debate. If you're an awful person and you want to kill as many people as possible, what's the most realistic plan you can have to do so? One that people do again and again? They get a gun, or guns, and they fire on people. That is the pattern of the last ten years of mass murders in the US.

 

[Sephiroth952]

It takes evil, and a gun. It's not an either/or, it's both.

tell that to people like Jim Jones and Tim McVeigh. Evil is evil regardless of how its spread.

 

[fps]

tell that to people like Jim Jones and Tim McVeigh. Evil is evil regardless of how its spread.

But one of the most obvious ways it's spread is through mass murders with guns....

http://www.newsmax.com/US/mass-shootings-us-colorado/2012/07/20/id/445971

 

[The Norsemen]

I'm not having mockery, I'm trying to have a debate. If you're an awful person and you want to kill as many people as possible, what's the most realistic plan you can have to do so? One that people do again and again? They get a gun, or guns, and they fire on people. That is the pattern of the last ten years of mass murders in the US.

Well it's good to know you've thought it all out man.
A box cutter at a packed concert is a tried and true method too.
Cuts so good people barely feel it eviscerate them I'm told.

 

[TheOddGoat]

I think these people committing(sp?) mass murder with firearms would probably make a bomb if they didn't have access to guns.

 

[Konfyouzd]

*Deleted* -- Irrelevant.

 

[fps]

Well it's good to know you've thought it all out man.
A box cutter at a packed concert is a tried and true method too.
Cuts so good people barely feel it eviscerate them I'm told.

Sorry I don't get the reference, what real life incident are you referring to? Seriously, if it's a real thing that happened, I'd like to know.

 

[Sephiroth952]

Well it's good to know you've thought it all out man.
A box cutter at a packed concert is a tried and true method too.
Cuts so good people barely feel it eviscerate them I'm told.

see this is actually a really good point. if us clear minded individuals can think of really simple ways of mass hurting/killing people without a gun, imagine what an unstable person can think up.

 

[MikeH]

I'm not having mockery, I'm trying to have a debate. If you're an awful person and you want to kill as many people as possible, what's the most realistic plan you can have to do so? One that people do again and again? They get a gun, or guns, and they fire on people. That is the pattern of the last ten years of mass murders in the US.

No firearms here. As others have stated, if you have strong intent, you will find the means necessary to execute the task.

 

[fps]

see this is actually a really good point. if us clear minded individuals can think of really simple ways of mass hurting/killing people without a gun, imagine what an unstable person can think up.

Thinking up and doing are separate things, and it is much easier to kill someone with a gun, with much less risk to the gun-user, which is why the army use guns, rather than box cutters.

 

[fps]

No firearms here. As others have stated, if you have strong intent, you will find the means necessary to execute the task.

And if you have strong intent to make sure it never happens again, you legislate and put in place rules that make it damn near impossible for it to ever happen again. After 9/11 everything changed in terms of airport and airspace policing. Yet after every gun-fuelled massacre nothing changes with regards to gun policing. That is a failure to protect innocents.

 

[flint757]

On all of this bullshit arguing, let's see who can kill a large group of people quicker: Me in a full size pickup truck, or you with a handgun. In that case, we need more strict driving laws. These comparisons are ridiculous. This is why, other than the obvious tragedy, when something like this happens, I just hide my head and try to avoid the nonsense bickering in which everyone thinks they have the right answer to avoid any and all similar situations. 20 children died today, and all we can do is argue about who can kill how many with what more efficiently. Sickening.

It doesn't happen though. if it did you can bet your ass people would be advocating stricter restriction on drivers license. personally, excluding any incident like that, I feel it is way too easy to get a drivers license. My sister literally perpendicular parked at her exam. The guy said come back later to try again.

He should have said you're a fucking idiot go back to drivers school. I prefer a few Europoean countries law regarding licenses. That is not relevant though.

Oh and for the record... I couldn't care less about gun control for the reasons stated earlier in the thread. Taking them away won't help as those with the intent to use to to do harm will acquire them by the necessary means. And if they couldn't there'd be a new "most effective killer." What if he'd chosen explosives instead?

Allowing everyone to carry them doesn't guarantee that situations such as this would be handled any better either.

I think it's weird that folks will automatically jump to one of two extremes when something traumatic happens. There has to be an end all solution. I don't think one exists.

Personally I'd like to live in a world where people would be vigilant of those close to them and be mindful of possible red flags for things of this nature. Obviously you can't always know, but I feel like some ppl are obvious ticking time bombs. When we see this sort of thing as a possibility it'd be nice if we all cared enough about one another to point it out and try to get help for those with mental illnesses that drive them to do these sorts of things.

But I guess that sounds like hippy talk to some. Not immediately effective and so on...

Explosives are more indirect and a tad more obvious. In crowded venues they actively seek such things as well. While the materials are easy to get, you don't see a whole lot of people making bombs. If that were true bombings would be rampant in countries where there are basically no guns.

I do agree that people should be more vigilant at home, but that applies to a lot more than public safety. Kids end up committing suicide, getting into hard drugs, pregnant, etc. all because nobody is paying attention at home or, in some cases, didn't care.

Where i went to school there was atleast 2-4 armed security in every school in the city, notably at my high school one in every corner of the building.They were also quite strict on who they let in and why. I think this practice really needs to start becoming routine everywhere, and we never even had a threat of a shooting ever occur, just prepared.

It varies from school-to-school. being prepared for a threat would definitely be optimal and given the job market would be a good thing to throw some stimulus money at too. Offers safety for the community and jobs. win-win.

No shit guns are the most efficient thing to slaughter children and everything else.
We get it. Gun>Judo chop. Thanks for that.
It doesn't mean that's what they're all going to be used for.

Banning guns for all law abiding citizens because of these tragedies isn't going to stop them.

I assume you are responding to me (people are posting at a rapid rate ). Anyhow, so how is that not relevant then. How can people sit here and compare murders by bombs, knives, cars, etc. and then when they admit that a gun is far more effective overall, the argument no longer pertains to the conversation.

Realistically I don't care if it was an outright ban or not. Personally I would, but that is irrelevant. I do feel that there should be national laws pertaining restrictions, classes and proper examinations prior to receiving a weapon and a continuation of classes every so often (The NRA seems to hate these ideas as best I can tell). That assault rifles (and all weapons that can be easily converted into an automatic) be outright banned. You don't need an assault rifle for protection and criminals don't use them for muggings and burglaries. People may enjoy them for hobbies, but they are ripe for the pickling for the insane and, too me, that trumps 'your right'.

People keep bringing up how ineffective some laws are too. Well, hell criminals don't follow any laws so fuck it lets get rid of them all.

I think these people committing(sp?) mass murder with firearms would probably make a bomb if they didn't have access to guns.

Honestly, doesn't happen very often as is; Maybe they will, but it is highly unlikely IMO. If it were easy people would be doing that. As is getting a gun isn't hard at all.