I'm afraid that even if they manage to have a second referendum that it will have the same fundamental problem as the first. Basically, that it was asking the people if they wanted to leave the EU but didn't actually lay out a realistic plan. It would've been fine if it had been treated more like a poll and MPs then allocated resources to come up with a realistic plan for Brexit, but instead it was considered binding. It's like there was a vote that we're all going to be healthier. Most people would say, "yes, I'd like to be healthier, of course". But then you present them with a plan for getting there and they say "wait a minute, I don't want to exercise or eat better, I just want to be healthier". Actually, it was probably even dumber than that. More like voting that we're all going to be healthier AND we're going to have ice cream for every meal. It was a stupid meaningless vote. If there's a second referendum, it needs to be be on a specific negotiated plan that includes a legal solution to the Irish border.
Any Brits here?
- Thread starter hairychris
- Start date
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100% this!!!
And some folks actually thought that they would be healthier and they could have ice cream for every meal. Personally, I'm still waiting for the £350 Million a week for the NHS. Maybe Boris and Nigel could chip in 175 million a week each? I'm not sure where that little promise ran off to?
and the Irish border debacle. Just, "wow"!
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Chiba666
Well-Known Member
That would be alot more populous than the disputed rock I may move to
Drew
Forum MVP
That's why I've been saying I think a second referendum has to be a choice between leaving with the best plan the EU will accept, and remaining. Brexiters managed to sell Brexit as all of the benefits of leaving the EU (not paying in, being able to unilaterally set immigration policy, that's about it, really), with none of the costs.
Drew
Forum MVP
More to the point, is that a chrome boy in your avatar?
Chiba666
Well-Known Member
So another vote gone down the river, need to stay out of the UK for a few years more.
Drew
Forum MVP
Well, this will be interesting. 
More likely than not we see an extenstion rather than a hard exit, and it's possible this could spur a second referendum, but... Uncharted territory.
More likely than not we see an extenstion rather than a hard exit, and it's possible this could spur a second referendum, but... Uncharted territory. Yes! #498
So we've looked at the takeaway menu and decided (for the second time) we don't want the special chow mein. We'll vote tonight to decide if we definitely want something and - assuming we do - we'll then vote to ask if the local Chinese takeaway can stay open an extra hour or two.
thedonal
Well-Known Member
Well. It clearly shows now that we have a Govt that couldn't negotiate its way through a crowded pub.
I think I'm going to vote to stop looking at political stuff (and probably just "The News"). Better to focus on what makes one happier and more enlightened..
I think I'm going to vote to stop looking at political stuff (and probably just "The News"). Better to focus on what makes one happier and more enlightened..
Drew
Forum MVP
So, where does Brexit go from here? May is holding a third vote on Tuesday, I guess, for her deal, but I don't see how suddenly a bill that failed by more than 150 votes is going to pass. The EU will probably give the UK an extension, but only if it looks like something meaningful will come of it, and I'm not sure what that might be.
I'm a little dumbfounded that a second referendum, or even a referendum between May's Brexit and remaining, hasn't gotten serious consideration, because right now it looks to me like you don't HAVE a Brexit deal that'll be acceptable to the EU, but can pass in the UK.
I'm a little dumbfounded that a second referendum, or even a referendum between May's Brexit and remaining, hasn't gotten serious consideration, because right now it looks to me like you don't HAVE a Brexit deal that'll be acceptable to the EU, but can pass in the UK.
Frankly, I think given the chaos that is our "government", all options are open from withdrawing our declaration of Article 50, to withdrawing from the EU without a deal. Don't forget the brexiteers will tell you that a second referendum doesn't carry out the "will of the people".
I too don't see the current deal getting through parliament, so I think it's "crash out" or "beg for an extension".
I too don't see the current deal getting through parliament, so I think it's "crash out" or "beg for an extension".
Drew
Forum MVP
But what do you do with that extension? I don't think May can get a much better Brexit deal from the EU, so either Parliament is going to A. have to do an about face and realize this is the best they can get, and vote for it (not impossible, but this seems to pragmatic for politicians), or B. at the end of the extension the best possible deal will be no closer to passing and you'll get a hard exit, or C. Parliament will have to admit that they've been sold a bill of goods and there's no deal that will let the UK leave the EU that will be acceptable at home, and they'll have to somehow vote to stay, after all.
Of the three options, a hard exit seems the most plausible, since A and C involve Parliament not being a bunch of fucking idiots.
I agree, hard exit is just plain dumb, and probably the most likely.
Hard exit followed by PMs resignation and/or general election is my bet.
What I’d like to see is an admission by the government that they can’t deliver ‘what people voted for’ and revocation of the Art. 50 declaration. Assuming it can be unilaterally revoked...?
Hard exit followed by PMs resignation and/or general election is my bet.
What I’d like to see is an admission by the government that they can’t deliver ‘what people voted for’ and revocation of the Art. 50 declaration. Assuming it can be unilaterally revoked...?
Drew
Forum MVP
Going out on a limb... The EU won't stop them. A hard Brexit is worse than a soft Brexit, but any Brexit at all hurts the EU, even if in ways that are minor compared to the UK, and the EU will let them remain if they have any say in it. The real risk would be if a pro-Brexit resident challenged the move in the courts, and the courts determined that they couldn't. Even then that would likely be messy but not a dealbreaker, unless somehow Article 50 was irrevocable.
ImNotAhab
ChronicUnderachiever
God damn, the third vote on the exit deal seems like it is not going to happen. Which way is this cluster going to go?
