Any interest in an Agile 8-string for Lead players?

[E Lucevan Le Stelle]

The only trem option I can think of is the Kahler ff 8-string bridge, which iirc is only available via custom order, which would make the price skyrocket. Individual saddles would be the only way to go.

As far as scale length goes, I would personally rather have it at 25"-28.625" so that everyone who wants it can have it, whether they want a high A string or low F#. And if that scale length is a little extreme for a low B, then at least do 25"-27", thus making the fan less extreme and having a decent tension for lower tunings.

That's the reason I was thinking that scale length - so that (with the Goodman strings probably) it would handle both a high and low tuning in the same guitar. A mass production fanned fret guitar would be a first - noone else does it - and I'm sure would do well, as the reason I didn't get on with my Intrepid (and sold it) was scale length issues - it just wasn't a great guitar for much except the usual "djent" kind of thing which isn't much of what I play. Fun, yes - but I don't really need a guitar for it when I already have the Death Warrior.

 

[daemon barbeque]

The Multi-scale solution is great!
If there would be only one option about the scale and perpendicular fret position ,it won't be too hard to keep it cheap.

2 PUs is a must tho. I hate to use neck PUs ,but many people need it.So it could be an option.

Single bridges is a good possibility ,but it costs more. So an engineered angled bridge can do miracles on the price side.

Great project ,hope it comes out well!

 

[eegor]

The thing with the 2 pickups is the cost. Considering the circumstances, I'm not sure Kurt would be able to keep the cost down enough if we tack on too many options like this.

 

[Hollowway]

I'm definitely going to vote for keeping the scale length at 25.5". Fanned frets are cool, but by 25.5" 7 strings with low B are totally fine. If it's larger, I may as well just put a high A on my Intrepid and call it a day. I'd be happy with 8 strings, standard scale length, B-A tuning. Then I've got my 28.625" 8 string with F#-E. That's livin'. L -I -V -I -N.

 

[daemon barbeque]

The thing with the 2 pickups is the cost. Considering the circumstances, I'm not sure Kurt would be able to keep the cost down enough if we tack on too many options like this.

That's why I was thinking about not optional scalelength ,but optional Neck PU.
Curt will know how many lead players prefer Neck PUs. he won't build a guitar with no future to sell!

 

[eegor]

You have a valid point, sir. I think we separate these ideas into both a standard-length 8 and a fanned fret 8 as to make everyone happy, or at least to keep the controversy to a minimum.

 

[vansinn]

I see the discussion is still on about number of pickups, fanned frets or not, and trem..
Earlier I wrote my take, which quite rightfully was demed too fancy for an affordable axe.

For Kurt to produce such a shredders dream at an affordable price, it'll have to speak to a decent number of players, else sales won't be enough to justify the development efforts.

Many in here are into elaborate ideas like fanned frets, but honestly, most other players don't see what it's good for, and they too look at the website.
We know some will want to downtune, while some/many of us may want that high A.

If an aggressive fan is chosen, many/most players will disregard it.
Further, such a fan will demand custom pickups and a trem designed for it.
I also think not too many will like a fanned scale going as short as 24". I believe many can accept a Gibson 24.75" scale, but not any shorter.

I'm very unsure about the nut. I'd want to retrofit drop tuners on the two low strings, which of course won't work with a locking nut.
(personally, I don't do dives nor pulls, just use the trem as a 'dipper', i.e. the opposite of bending strings, so I feel a graphite nut should work with a Kahler used this way.)
Maybe the type of nut could be made optional..?

Based on the above, I think most all on this instrument should be fixed items, for the sake of being able to produce the affordable 8-string shred axe, which started this thread.
It should be fixed at two pickups and an agreed-upon equal scale or moderate fanning.

Therefore, I suggest a 25" - 26" fan, laid out with a minimum fanning at the body.
This will enable using stock pickups, and, as far as I can tell, a standard Kahler should be able to accomodate such a limited fan. I just beg that a locking Kahler is chosen.
A fixed bridge version will have no problems with this scheme.

For players not used to fanned frets, it won't look too weird, will be an easy adoption, and the limited fanning could be marketed as allowing better downtuning, low-end action and intonation, plus the ability to tune somewhat up with standard strings.
Those of us who desire that A4 can choose Garry's strings.

The only optionals should be:
. Two or three types of fretboard: Maple, Ebony, Rosewood (just my suggestions).
. Fixed bridge or Kahler (locking)
. Locking nut or graphite
. Color schemes

 

[Scali]

In my opinion, rosewood is the worst option for shredders. I'd be fine with only ebony and maple options, I don't really care which... although I prefer the look of ebony.

 

[CaptainD00M]

Yes ive been wanting an acessibly priced 8 with a high A or G for some time now... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE...

 

[plyta]

Folks don't get carried away

Fanned fret option was out of the question while designing initial Intrepid, because Rondo would have to get Novax license:
Novax Guitars: Licensing the Fanned-Fret Design

 

[J-Twin]

...I'd want to retrofit drop tuners on the two low strings, which of course won't work with a locking nut....I feel a graphite nut should work with a Kahler used this way. Maybe the type of nut could be made optional..?

I'm in the same boat, but inexperienced in these matters. I'm wanting to try Kahler w/ graphite nut & locking tuners.

Vansinn, you make some very good suggestions, IMO.

 

[CaptainD00M]

Thats lame... how can someone patent something like a fret boad design? really, i mean would that not mean that a 22 fret 24.3/4 inch neck with a gibbo 59 profile then be subject to gibbo lic laws or something?

Im no expert on patent law mind, but im struggeling to see how Ralph Novax could sew up the market... how then did Ormsby make the multi scale 6 and sevens for that guy who is only referd to as SAXON on the website.

 

[NDG]

Folks don't get carried away

Fanned fret option was out of the question while designing initial Intrepid, because Rondo would have to get Novax license:
Novax Guitars: Licensing the Fanned-Fret Design

Hmm that's confusing since the FAQ states:

Do I need to pay a licensing fee to build a Fanned-Fret instrument?

No.

 

[MF_Kitten]

the novax fanned frets patent only covers the method of making fanned frets and stuff, not the actual technology of having more than one scale on the instrument.

plus, his patent ran out a couple years back, didn´t it?

as long as you don´t call it "fanned frets", but rather "multiscale" or something like that, and don´t use, or don´t admit to use, novax´s calculation methods for making the fanned frets, then you should be fine. it´s not his invention, and he doesn´t own the patent for the basic concept itself.

 

[NDG]

wiki:

In 1989 Ralph Novak patented an arrangement of frets he calls “fanned frets,” denoting "a series of straight frets aligned in a non-parallel pattern," and "each of said frets extending along a straight line" and "with said plurality of strings substantially converging to a point." This patent has expired. Novak also has a copyright on the use of the term “fanned frets.” (Patent #4,852,450, Novak)

 

[plyta]

Hm, maybe it's expired after all, I can't tell

Anyways, that license does not concern building fanned fret instruments, it concerns selling 'em in USA, Ormsby is Aussie and Blackmachine is British (don't know other fanned fret builds).

Even if there are no legitiment issues, slotting fanned fretboard requires a special slotting machine or slotting 'em manualy. Either way it's a noticeable bump in price, ask Kurt about it.

 

[MF_Kitten]

again, from the wiki: In 1989 Ralph Novak patented an arrangement of frets he calls “fanned frets,” This patent has expired.

and from his site again:
-Do I need to pay a licensing fee to build a Fanned-Fret instrument?

-No.

in his FAQ section he even provides this link: Cutting a Fanned-Fret Fretboard

 

[vansinn]

^ I'm not so sure about that. I has been stated elsewhere in here that Novax' patent ran out long ago, and others actually wrote them and was told so.

Even if still valid, someone should challenge such a crap ide of patenting something which was used already in past centuries. Just my .2 euro's..


EDIT: Sorry, hadn't noticed page 12 of this great thread. OMG! a place on the net where manufacturers can be influenced; how great is that!

 

[daemon barbeque]

You have a valid point, sir. I think we separate these ideas into both a standard-length 8 and a fanned fret 8 as to make everyone happy, or at least to keep the controversy to a minimum.

Yess! i think that's the best way to do it!

 

[Justin Bailey]

yep I'd say the best best is to split this into two guitars. One 8 string with a slightly shorter scale length with neck two pickups and a kahler for lead players and a multiscale 8 as kind of the next part in the evolution of the Agile 8.