Anyone here bench, lift weights, etc?

[Millul]

Mike, great job at the meet!
Did you have anybody handling/wrapping you, or were you alone?

Try to understand what cost you those missed lifts (timing? hydration? hunger? bad calls? wrong warm-up?....?) and work on it, but it looks like you had a killer 1st meet - congrats!

 

[MikeH]

Thanks! I didn't have an official handler, but I had some buddies to wrap me. As far as missing the squat, I was nervous on my first attempt and cut the lift short, missing depth. My final attempt for bench, I flared too early and fell out of line and tried to over correct it. The final deadlift attempt was a lack of hips early on. I also didn't rehydrate enough. I know what I need to do to fix it, so I'm aiming for 9/9 and a 1,200 total in about 6.5 weeks.

 

[UnattendedGolfcart]

I'm working through a program right now that's mostly focused on high reps and 3-4 sets for everything. There's some supersets currently as well. I'm working out 5 days a week in this program and it works well I think. However, since it's very focused on endurance and doing supersets and high reps and whatnot, I'm not spending any time figuring out my max or near max lifts. Should I be concerned about this at this time? I'm on the third phase of the four-phase program. Should I try to integrate some max lifting in or should I just wait to spend time on that until I finish the entire workout program?

Btw, it's the Buff Dudes 12 Week Plan, Gym Edition.

 

[MikeH]

Depends on your goals. Are you building muscle size or building strength? Sounds to me like this program is more based on hypertrophy and gaining size as opposed to strength and power. If you want the size and strength, finish the program out and then move to a strength-based program like Stronglifts 5x5, 5/3/1, or The Cube Method. If you're more concerned with strength, go to one of those immediately.

 

[UnattendedGolfcart]

While I'd like to build both size and strength, I think that the point of the program I'm doing is about size. You're right in that it's focused on hypertrophy and burning you out, pushing you in endurance rather than in pure strength.

I might stick with this program and try a new program when I'm done. I'm living at my girlfriend's apartment in the summer in Queens and I'm not sure I'll really have money for a gym membership, and it sounds like there isn't a gym in the immediate area of her house besides her building's basement gym. So I'm probably going to find a plan that I can with bodyweight or low weight, high reps.

 

[MikeH]

Not sure if anyone here would have any insight, but I'm interested in competing in the Highland Games in the next few years. Anyone here have any experience? I've started following Matt Vincent and his Drifta Lifta series, as well as his brand, The HVIII. It seems like really cool stuff, and far more athletic than powerlifting.

 

[Millul]

Look up Steve Pulcinella as well...I have no experience with HG, but they do look to be a lot of fun

 

[Ibanezsam4]

While I'd like to build both size and strength, I think that the point of the program I'm doing is about size. You're right in that it's focused on hypertrophy and burning you out, pushing you in endurance rather than in pure strength.

this is a myth. having bigger muscle will in no way hurt your strength and power. In fact, for people with less than ideal leverages (i.e lanky people) building muscle mass to improve overall strength in not only important, but it can be the difference between hitting new PRs in a predictable manner at a competitive level.

What you need to understand about powerlifting programs is that they are designed to have you "peak" (hit your 1rm) in a certain period of time prior to a meet.

If your weights in your set go up, then congratulations your 1rm is also improving. You can run hypertrophy programming and linear progressions until the cows come home (and you should because endurance is an oft neglected component of weight training), and your strength will still increase.

The only thing you won't be able to figure out by doing hypertrophy training all the time is what your true 1rm is. that's about it.

This video goes into more detail than i can:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeFXMX9Al8w

 

[MikeH]

I don't think anyone was saying that, but hypertrophic programs are obviously not geared towards maximal strength. You'll certainly still get stronger, but it's not the same increase as a 5x5 linear progression program with some heavy weight.

 

[Ibanezsam4]

I don't think anyone was saying that, but hypertrophic programs are obviously not geared towards maximal strength. You'll certainly still get stronger, but it's not the same increase as a 5x5 linear progression program with some heavy weight.

of course its the same; its just less obvious because you're not comparing it to a 1rm. adding 5lbs to a lift at the 10-12 rep range is still increasing strength by 5lbs.

one of the key bits of the video i posted was "most people aren't patient enough to go through a full hypertrophy cycle and just want to see big weight gains"

going through the same basic movements and adding weight to a volume program will move the scales the same way a six week peaking routine would, with just a few extra weeks. the difference is one will produce more useful muscle mass than the other.

 

[UnattendedGolfcart]

Thanks for that Ibanezsam4. Competitions or really focusing on my max isn't important to me, at least not right now. I have no real desire to do a competition.

I know that I'm getting stronger doing a hypertrophy program and I'm seeing some gains. Even if my gains don't look big (I'm not eating a .... ton of food because I'm a broke college student, but I am eating plenty and eating healthy) I know that I'm stronger simply because I've added weight to my exercises haha.

I'm going to stick with the hypertrophic "bodybuilder" workout style because I think it suits me more right now. Over the summer I won't have access to a gym with huge weights and racks so I'm going to stick with what I've been doing.

 

[Ibanezsam4]

^ Solid. diet is tough and figuring out how to do it cheaply and nutritionally is tough, but its possible (chicken, rice, and bean burritos for life!).

again nothing wrong with chasing the 1rm fairy. it makes you feel like an ox and usually other people in the gym will get behind you. there are just multiple ways to get to the same perceived result.

 

[MikeH]

of course its the same; its just less obvious because you're not comparing it to a 1rm. adding 5lbs to a lift at the 10-12 rep range is still increasing strength by 5lbs.

one of the key bits of the video i posted was "most people aren't patient enough to go through a full hypertrophy cycle and just want to see big weight gains"

going through the same basic movements and adding weight to a volume program will move the scales the same way a six week peaking routine would, with just a few extra weeks. the difference is one will produce more useful muscle mass than the other.

Guys like Jason Huh and Frank McGrath are not as strong as guys like Dan Green and Tee Cummins. Both of the former being 20-40 lbs bigger than both of the latter. Hypertrophic training is absolutely beneficial to strength. I do not disagree that you will get stronger. But is not as beneficial to maximal strength as a linear progression strength program. Period. You have guys who do crossover stuff, the most famous being Ronnie Coleman. But he was an outlier. IFBB pros are not going to come directly from the stage and break world records on the platform. That's why there are different types of training, and why elite level powerlifters aren't using a 3x10 chest/leg/back split.

 

[UnattendedGolfcart]

^ Solid. diet is tough and figuring out how to do it cheaply and nutritionally is tough, but its possible (chicken, rice, and bean burritos for life!).

again nothing wrong with chasing the 1rm fairy. it makes you feel like an ox and usually other people in the gym will get behind you. there are just multiple ways to get to the same perceived result.

That's one thing I'm excited about over the summer: my girlfriend's parents making us dinner that's more often than not pretty healthy, and I won't have a ton of money to spend on junk. Plus I started setting some running goals for myself too, so I've got a good mindset going into this summer.

 

[MikeH]

If anyone is interested, I'm starting to document my progress with recap videos on my YouTube. My first is from last night's bench press session where I hit a 5 lb PR. If you care, subscribe!

 

[gunshow86de]

Guys like Jason Huh and Frank McGrath are not as strong as guys like Dan Green and Tee Cummins. Both of the former being 20-40 lbs bigger than both of the latter. Hypertrophic training is absolutely beneficial to strength. I do not disagree that you will get stronger. But is not as beneficial to maximal strength as a linear progression strength program. Period. You have guys who do crossover stuff, the most famous being Ronnie Coleman. But he was an outlier. IFBB pros are not going to come directly from the stage and break world records on the platform. That's why there are different types of training, and why elite level powerlifters aren't using a 3x10 chest/leg/back split.

You could always just be Stan Efferding.

 

[Ibanezsam4]

Guys like Jason Huh and Frank McGrath are not as strong as guys like Dan Green and Tee Cummins. Both of the former being 20-40 lbs bigger than both of the latter. Hypertrophic training is absolutely beneficial to strength. I do not disagree that you will get stronger. But is not as beneficial to maximal strength as a linear progression strength program. Period. You have guys who do crossover stuff, the most famous being Ronnie Coleman. But he was an outlier. IFBB pros are not going to come directly from the stage and break world records on the platform. That's why there are different types of training, and why elite level powerlifters aren't using a 3x10 chest/leg/back split.

you're making a few naive and misinformed assumptions here, but they need to be clarified so these muscle myths stop being perpetuated.

you're assuming there is no difference between a lifter who is juicing and one who is drug free. in natural athletes there is very little difference in training for hypertrophy than what you're defining as "strength" or powerlifting.. or frankly what for the past ten years in the gym, we just called "lifting heavy".

so much of what read regarding lifting comes from a non-scientific source, usually from unverified first hand sources, such as trainers or athletes. while their advice is largely good when it comes to technique and such, when some start to makes claims on how muscle is formed i laugh because i think biochemists are a better source. regardless...

... we have science that tells us the line between these allegedly separate training styles is quite gray.

read through this Do the Acute Biochemical and Neuromuscular Responses Justify... : The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research

but i'll summarize. essentially, the different groups who trained heavy sets and hypertrophy sets experienced nearly identical biochemical responses (the .... that makes your muscle grow). the hypertrophy groups received the same responses for strength gains, and the strength group built lean muscle mass... however we have other studies that show reps make for greater hypertrophy.

so moving on to your point about the different athletes... training for maximal strength and training your maximal strength are two different concepts. firstly, training for maximal strength can be accomplished at different rep ranges and weights (yaaay science), and training your maximal strength just means lifting close to your maxes on different movements.

But comparing two different lifting disciplines is such blatant example apples and oranges that it deserves to be called out. by that logic we should compare professional sprinters to NFL players when they run a 40 meter dash.

of course someone who has trained their neuromuscular system to have proficiency at a movement will be better on stage.. however the IFBB guys would be able to make the crossover easily... cuz they train heavy too

again back to the video i posted earlier... a lot of these guys train in higher rep ranges for a good portion of the year except when peaking for meets.

don't drink the broscience koolaid man.. learn real science instead. period. <-- used for added rhetorical effect

 

[MikeH]

Well, maybe I was going off on the wrong tangent. I see the flaw in my side of the argument, as I was talking about strength period, but I believe what I meant to talk about is neural specialization for either powerlifting or bodybuilding, as your CNS will adapt differently to the style of workload you are putting on yourself. Guys who are used to 3x12 sets will not have the CNS capacity to go squat a maximal single without feeling shaky and disoriented afterwards, because that's not what they train for. So, I went off in the wrong direction by arguing a different point than I was trying to make. Apologies, sir.

 

[Bevo]

Hey guys, is "starting strength" still the way to go to put on some muscle?
As a cyclist I can't do much as I lost all my muscle from all the cardio, looking for a good program and this looks good.

If it is what is the recommended warm up?

Thanks

 

[MikeH]

I gained the most strength and mass while on Starting Strength. Great program. I always recommend 8-12 weeks of SS, then transition to Stronglifts 5x5, which is essentially the same program, but 5x5 instead of 3x5.