Anyone tried the new ESP USA M-III?
- Thread starter andriusd
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Zado
Well-Known Member
I can't imagine the quality being less than spectacular,so get one and tell us 
feraledge
Heard the Good News about Maple Fretboards?
Someone has to go first. Might as well be you.
Metlupass2
Well-Known Member
I'll bet it plays just like any of the old Standard Series Japanese made ESPs. Whats so different about the USA shop besides the price really?
I'm not knocking them by any means. I've had over 20 ESPs including 5 Custom Shop. All I have left though is an old Custom Shop MII.
I'm not knocking them by any means. I've had over 20 ESPs including 5 Custom Shop. All I have left though is an old Custom Shop MII.
M3CHK1LLA
angel sword guardian
i own or have owned several esp's plus 2 custom shop m-II's and they all have been awesome.
even the artist sig ltd's are great for the money.
even the artist sig ltd's are great for the money.
I know Japanese ones are excellent. ESP trains its luthiers in Japan. But these are being built in the USA - by whom? Have they been trained the same way as the Japanese builders? Do they adhere to those strict Japanese quality control standards?
To tell you the truth, that kind of money is out my league, but if I loved the guitar, maybe I could try to get one some day. I'll have to try one, of course. But the main problem for me is... I personally trust MIJ more than MIA and for that kind of money, I would prefer it built in Japan.
So I basically wonder whether they are on the same level as the Japanese ones that are in this price range. I mean, if the USA-made ESP are basically Japanese Standards (like Metlupass2 said), then they're totally not worth that price. If they are on par with Japanese 350,000 Yen guitars, then it's alright.
To tell you the truth, that kind of money is out my league, but if I loved the guitar, maybe I could try to get one some day. I'll have to try one, of course. But the main problem for me is... I personally trust MIJ more than MIA and for that kind of money, I would prefer it built in Japan.
So I basically wonder whether they are on the same level as the Japanese ones that are in this price range. I mean, if the USA-made ESP are basically Japanese Standards (like Metlupass2 said), then they're totally not worth that price. If they are on par with Japanese 350,000 Yen guitars, then it's alright.
Sicarius
Reggie J Worthington
The ESP USA guitars are being made by ESP USA luthiers, they have their own shop.
As for your other questions, email ESP directly and see what they say.
ESP Japan is the Most Upper Tier Custom Shop instruments.
ESP USA is a step down from this, think very small batch high end production guitars.
ESP EII guitars are exactly the same as the ESP Standard Series guitars.
LTD is still the same, Artist and 1000 series being made in Korea, below that is Indonesia.
As for your other questions, email ESP directly and see what they say.
ESP Japan is the Most Upper Tier Custom Shop instruments.
ESP USA is a step down from this, think very small batch high end production guitars.
ESP EII guitars are exactly the same as the ESP Standard Series guitars.
LTD is still the same, Artist and 1000 series being made in Korea, below that is Indonesia.
manu80
Well-Known Member
So then what's edwards/navigator and grass roots?
Andromalia
Pardon my french
Not again. T_T
HeHasTheJazzHands
Well-Known Member
Edwards is between the LTD 1000 series and E-II series. Grassroods is Japan's LTD 50 - 400 series. Navigator is pretty much the ESP Original Series, but with traditional Gibson/Fender shapes.
I'm not sure Edwards is below E-II. I haven't played any E-II yet, nor have I played an LTD Elite, but... E-II is basically an LTD Elite (first they launch LTD Elite, then rebrand it as E-II the next year --- same models, same colours). I understand thinking that Edwards must be below ESP Standard, but I don't understand why would Edwards be below the LTD Elite (keep in mind that E-II is not really a direct replacement of the Standard, it's a direct replacement of LTD Elite)? The rumours that Edwards are being made in China are just rumours (with some evidence revealed that they are made in Japan since around 2009).
Yes, most Edwards guitars are cheaper than E-II/LTD Elite, so that kind of means they must be below in terms of quality, but there are a couple of more expensive models. For example, there is a Snapper model that costs something like ST-1 and which the ST-1 is based on. I haven't tried the ST-1, but I can't imagine it being of better quality than the Edwards Snapper.
I think it makes most sense comparing comparable models, like Snapper to ST-1, Stratocaster to Vintage Plus, not Eclipse vs Les Paul.
Sicarius
Reggie J Worthington
E-II is a direct replacement to Standard. LTD Elite was more an experiment with branding before going full with E-II branding.
Metlupass2
Well-Known Member
They screwed it all up a few years ago.....if it ain't broke don't fix it!
They should have left it like it was and upgraded the standard series to stainless steel frets to keep up with other companies. That last part was random but would have been sweet.
They should have left it like it was and upgraded the standard series to stainless steel frets to keep up with other companies. That last part was random but would have been sweet.
1b4n3z
Well-Known Member
I guess the whole idea behing E-II was to be able to introduce it to the Japanese (domestic) market. Before they didn't sell Standards there I suppose, and the leap from Edwards to Originals was a huge one regarding price. So there was room for another quality level.
Wrong. The only thing experimental with LTD Elite was the name.
If what you're saying is true, then why are M-II models from E-II series exact copies of LTD Elite and not the Standards?
Standards where solid black with satin-finished neck. And both LTD Elites and E-IIs, on the other hand, have flame-tops and painted necks and one model comes with binding - Standards never had these specs. They got rid of a bolt-on M-II in the LTD Elite and didn't bring it back with the E-II. The choice of specs and colours of M-II in E-II is identical to that of LTD Elite, and different from the Standard series. In fact, the only difference between Elite LTD and E-II versions of the M-II is the logo on the headstock. Everything else is identical and - I repeat - different from the solid black Standard series. So how can you still claim the E-II is a direct replacement of the Standard series? How can you ignore the fact that E-II is identical to the LTD Elite?
Second thing, there were no ST-1 (E-II has ST-1) in the Standard series. They were introduced with LTD Elite. I didn't check the other guitars.
Sicarius
Reggie J Worthington
Because when the LTD Elite branding didn't go over well in the US, ESP dropped the branding, moved the guitars to the E-II line up (Which was released to Japan and other markets at the same time as LTD Elite) and re-released them in the US Market when they introduced the E-II line in the US.
E-II isn't just the 3-5 guitars that were in the LTD Elite series, dude. there's a good 2 dozen basses and guitars in the line. E-II was designed as a whole to replace ESP Standard Series branding as they were only going to use "ESP" for high end guitars (USA, Original).
Like every guitar company, they change their line ups every couple of years. I think the year E-II came to the US is when they dropped the Viper from Standard/E-II to the US Market because it doesn't sell well in that price bracket in our Market. With that, specs also change due to market demand.
That year they had the "ST-1" because they changed branding from the failed LTD Elite to E-II.
You're just misunderstanding the recent history, there's no need to be indignant about it and trying to "get me" with easy to research questions.
Just because it was launched in Japan at the same time as LTD Elite in the USA, doesn't mean it's any different from LTD Elite. And, like you said, they add/remove models each year, so no wonder current E-II lineup is bigger than last year's LTD Elite. For all I know, the E-II M-IIs are the same "cheapened" LTD guitars with painted necks, "cool" flame-tops and "binding" (none of which an M-II ever had and hance not supposed to have, and which is actually a trademark of LTD guitars) and neck-thru-body construction only (for cool kids who think bolt-on doesn't "sustain" - so no need for a bolt-on version anymore!).
I mean, the M-II remained the same solid-coloured black guitar in NTB and bolt-on constructions for at least a decade. Now all of a sudden they made all these big changes and reduced the options. I don't buy that this is a direct replacement to the Standard M-II. This is a worsened, cheapened substitute. It actually is a very good example of what they are trying to do: make ESP exclusive and replace the Standard series with a cheapo series so that those who want the real thing had to pay much more. Of course they won't just put a "E-II" logo on the mighty M-II - they had to make it a cheaper version too. And in that respect, they can say that E-II is a direct replacement of the Standard series all they want, but for all I care, it's not a replacement, but a cheaper substitute - as well-built as they are.
What are the other markets? In Europe, until September 2014, if you looked for an ESP, all you could see was LTD/LTD Elite and just a couple of 4000EUR ESPs. In other words, E-II were introduced in late 2014 in Europe.
I was told by a local distributor that ESP is being distributed internationally by the USA. That is, they get ESP from the USA, not straight from Japan, although they are getting everything else Japanese straight from Japan. That means that in regards to ESP there are basically two markets: Japanese and Western.
sevenstringj
Banned
I tried an ESP MII at a Sam Ash. It looked and felt profoundly mediocre.
I owned 2 ESP USA MV's from back in the day (I think early 2000's), and they both felt extraordinarily sweet, on par with my USA Jackson SL1.
Just my statistically insignificant experience.
Sicarius
Reggie J Worthington
Every question you've asked, I've answered with the correct information to help you to realize your mistakes. But you're constantly ignoring it and trying to disprove it with really silly evidence.
You do know that the ESP HQ is in LA, right? They have the USA Shop in the same area. Any video tour on YouTube for ESP they say that the LA HQ is the Distribution point and final inspection site for all the guitars.
I'm not going to keep spoon feeding you information when you're never going to acknowledge that you've been wrong from the beginning.
Please, never buy an ESP instrument and tarnish the brand and community with your ignorance.
By the way, E-II has been in Europe for at least a year:
http://guitarnoize.com/musikmesse-2013-esp-announce-e-ii-guitars/
That means that in Dec 2012 LTD Elite was introduced to US markets.
Japan= Domestic market
Overseas/Import = EurAsia, Asia Pacfic (Islands, Australia, NZ), South America
US/NA = North American (US, Canada, Mexico)
I am not saying E-II is worse in quality. I am just saying that it's "cheaper" in terms of "vibe". It looks like an LTD guitar with that slightly fake fanciness and those specs.
MusikMesse is just an event where it was introduced. If you went back in time and tried to buy one half a year ago, you would have had very hard time finding one. I was in searches of one, so I know what I'm talking about. I have managed to find a couple of places that had a couple of E-II models, but the percentage of stores that had E-II as opposed to those that had LTD Elite was way too small.
