Apex 7

[Pablo]

Frankly, my opinion is that country of origin has nothing to do with quality (in this CNC age that should be pretty obvious). However, from the Indonesian guitars I've tried, it would appear that there is a massive lack of skilled labour over there. As the production site "ages" more workers will know what guitar building is about and quality will improve... Yet, I don't want to be one of the guinea pigs needed to improve quality in the long run (I already own one Indo Ibby - that's more than enough) and will thus stick to what I know will work: S7320 here I come!

Cheers

Eske

 

[HighGain510]

Hehe the thing that makes me laugh about this whole debate is that it was just a few short years ago when EVERYONE [not this board, in general] was high on their "USA/MIJ are the only good guitars, Korean guitars suck!" throne without ever touching a Korean guitar, but now everyone has seemingly accepted Korean guitars as being pretty good. Same goes for this argument. Yes, there is some truth to the fact that their laborers MAY not be as skilled, but to make a gross generalization like "it's made in Indonesia, it's crap!" is ridiculous. The reason Ibanez is willing to make it in a cheaper area and not lower the price, as it has already been mentioned, is because of that little signature saying it is the "Munky Apex model" on the guitar. They have to pay him his royalties for the guitar. If you guys are REALLY that outraged at Ibanez for making them in Indonesia, why don't you ALL send them an email or two each telling them you won't buy the guitar if it's made in Indonesia, and if it takes them removing the signature model crap to make it in Korea that you would rather have them do that if it will increase the quality of the build. Heck, write an email to Munky telling him you think he should speak to Ibanez about having it made in Korea if you feel that strongly about it! What I'm trying to say here is wait until they come out, try one (buy it online from someone with a return policy so if you don't like it you're only out the shipping) and if you still think they suck write Ibanez and maybe they will listen, who knows? Judging a guitar you haven't played simply by the country it is manufactured in is based on flawed logic. Wait and play the guitar before you make your final judgements on the instrument!

 

[Mr. S]

^

 

[sepsis311]

so this is it, huh? no more japanese guitars from ibanez? They're all korean and indonesean and chinese? Where is the RG2228 being manufactured?

 

[7-request]

i have an MIJ ibanez rg 1527, and it has gap on neck pocket, it is not good, isnt?? i have played 2 rg7321 one made in korea, 1 MII. no gap on neck pocket, and they both feel the same (i A/Bed them in my friend's store). anyway, is there any chance that the neck will be loosen if it has gap on neck join??? you know, neck will move or something??? i'm worried now, since a guy told that "business card thing".

 

[NegaTiveXero]

Nick, I for one am not particularly concerned about the Indonesian lineage - Schecter got me over that "USA, Japan, or Bust" hangup in a big way, just as Ibanez got me over the "USA or bust" hangup years before. I'll judge the build quality when I have one in my hands. If it sucks, I'll try a second to make sure and then say, "Yeah, Indonesian build quality blows, at least for the time being." If not, then I'll say "You know, it feels pretty good. I'd say it's worth the $699 they're asking." I won't form an opinion before that.

But you know, I suspect a lot more people would be willing to hear you out if you didn't start with "QUIT THE FUCKING BITCHING!!!" Swearing and yelling at people may be persuasive in boot camp, but in just about every other context a little moderation will go a long way, you know?

They usually don't listen either way, but I get your point. It was really more of an emphasis, not quite yelling.

And to the neg-repper. I'm not being a dick.

5 posts away from #666.

 

[zimbloth]

I will say people had good reason to slag korean guitars a few years ago. It wasnt until more recently that their quality has gotten so good. ESP, Schecter, Parker, Peavey, etc... those brands recent offerings have been very nice. I remember playing/owning the Diamond Series and LTD guitars from 2001-2002 and they were just terrible in comparison.

Thing is, every korean/indonesian Ibanez I've played has felt and sounded cheap. The RG7321, AX7221 and many of the 6-string RGs I've played just feel like plastic and are not even close to the MIJ models. I think Ibanez has a long way to go to match ESP or Schecter in terms of import quality.

I agree with Drew, it's best to give something a chance before discounting it, but based on the vast majority of guitars I've played from China or Indonesia... I think I've heard enough. I also will never buy a non-MIJ Ibanez... just out of principle since so many wonderful MIJ models of yesteryear can still be had.

 

[stuz719]

Hehe the thing that makes me laugh about this whole debate is that it was just a few short years ago when EVERYONE [not this board, in general] was high on their "USA/MIJ are the only good guitars, Korean guitars suck!" throne without ever touching a Korean guitar ... Judging a guitar you haven't played simply by the country it is manufactured in is based on flawed logic. Wait and play the guitar before you make your final judgements on the instrument!

+1



Ever wondered if guitarists in Indonesia say "Ugh - those US-built guitars aren't even fit for burning!"?

 

[Jeff]

But guys, 6 or 7 years ago, Korean guitars were by and large crappy. I had two during that era, and they both ended up with warped necks (whereas my MIJ's in the same environment went unscathed) and crappy fretwork, the previously mentioned gaps in neck pocket, etc.

If the argument's the same but with a different country, it's because Indonesia is where Korea was 6 years ago, and Korea is where Japan was 6 years ago.

 

[The Dark Wolf]

Well said, Jeff.

+1



Ever wondered if guitarists in Indonesia say "Ugh - those US-built guitars aren't even fit for burning!"?

No way. It's not a question of geographical/ethnic standards, it's a question of skilled labor, labor costs, and manufacturing quality.

Place like Korea and Indonesia are relatively cheap sources of labor for a reason.

 

[Pablo]

I honestly believe Indonesia will pump out quality guitars in 2-3 years time, but roght now it's touch and go.
In the race for the best price/quality, I actually feel that American quality is terrible for the premium you pay, and I'd take a comparably priced Japanese guitar any day of the week... and I'd also take a Japanese or European car or television set over the awfull stuff comming out of Detroit any day of the week - wouldn't you? There's a reason why the American economy is at rock bottom: people outside the US simply won't buy American products - they are simply not good enough. Moreover, the US is overusing natural imported resources (I'm talking oil, mainly).

 

[zimbloth]

Um, plenty of Japanese brands are overpriced too. Look at ESP and Caparison. You can get supreme quality USA custom shop guitars for less than you think, I paid less for mine than what some ESP production models cost. If you're talking about Gibson and stuff like that, then yeah I agree.

 

[Metal Ken]

If you're talking about Gibson and stuff like that, then yeah I agree.

i think thats what he means, look at Jackson, and Gibson, like you mentioned, for example. A lot of the more mainstream custom builders have good prices.

 

[THE VILE]

Originally Posted by Pablo
I honestly believe Indonesia will pump out quality guitars in 2-3 years time, but roght now it's touch and go.
In the race for the best price/quality, I actually feel that American quality is terrible for the premium you pay, and I'd take a comparably priced Japanese guitar any day of the week... and I'd also take a Japanese or European car or television set over the awfull stuff comming out of Detroit any day of the week - wouldn't you? There's a reason why the American economy is at rock bottom: people outside the US simply won't buy American products - they are simply not good enough. Moreover, the US is overusing natural imported resources (I'm talking oil, mainly).

While you’re at it, do have any thoughts on alternative energy sources?

 

[HotRodded7321]

Um, plenty of Japanese brands are overpriced too. Look at ESP and Caparison. You can get supreme quality USA custom shop guitars for less than you think, I paid less for mine than what some ESP production models cost. If you're talking about Gibson and stuff like that, then yeah I agree.

Lately I would say all of the major companies are overpricing ALOT of things.

ESP's custom shop is a JOKE, PRS has always bugged me, Gibson is outright ridiculous, Ibanez always charges 3x's what it's usually worth, and with almost all the sig models from any company, I really wouldn't say you're getting what you pay for.

Overpricing applies to all of the major companies IMO...I didn't hit all of them, but it really doesn't matter...they all do it.

The only company that I think has fair pricing on VERY nice production guitars is Schecter...take the Hellraiser, Damien, Omen, and 00-series for examples...way above the average build, but still under or right at $700 for any of them.

I'm not saying they're perfect by any means, but compared to almost every other major builder out there in that price range, the quality is far better. (Which I hate to say because I'm a total Ibby freak.) Jackson or ESP would be a tie for a close second, but until you start getting into the $700-800 range, they're really nothing special.

EDIT: This is mainly just about overpricing...I'm not saying any one company builds poor quality at all.

 

[Pablo]

While you’re at it, do have any thoughts on alternative energy sources?

Well, Denmark is the world leader in wind enerigy... and reducing energy consumption shouldn't be too difficult in the US - how about just slightly more fuel efficient cars and slightly better insulation of housing.

Yes, I did mean that companies such as Gibson, Fender, Jackson and PRS are selling overpriced instruments. A company such as KXK obviously aren't!

 

[Project2501]

Carvin, Carvin, Carvin, Carvin, ......... that is all.

 

[Jeff]

Well, Denmark is the world leader in wind enerigy... and reducing energy consumption shouldn't be too difficult in the US - how about just slightly more fuel efficient cars and slightly better insulation of housing.

Yes, I did mean that companies such as Gibson, Fender, Jackson and PRS are selling overpriced instruments. A company such as KXK obviously aren't!

If car companies would switch to bio fuels, we'd all be better off. But with the oil companies in control, it's difficult to do that.

 

[Pablo]

Absolutely man... I'm still hoping for a breaktkrough in hydrogen energy as I still fear that cold fusion is a couple of houndred years away

 

[Project2501]

Absolutely man... I'm still hoping for a breaktkrough in hydrogen energy as I still fear that cold fusion is a couple of houndred years away

Actually cold fusion may be possibe. At one of my Physics Colloquium last semester we had a guy talking about Sonoluminescence. He is one of the leading researchers in it.

Anyways since apparently they can generate fairly high temperatures within the cavitation they might be able to generate enough energy to start a cold fusion reaction. Now it is a big might, but it seemed interesting.