"Arab Idol" viewers demand MBC remove Israel from map

[Explorer]

First off, I couldn't find a primary source in English for this story, so here's the original link:

نشطاء مواقع التواصل الاجتماعي يطالبون بمقاطعة "أراب أيدول" بسبب "إسرائيل" - السينما.كوم

And here it is with a machine translation from Google.

Google translation of page into English

And here's a page which has a better English translation, along with more details. As far as I can tell, it is factually accurate.

‘Arab Idol’ viewers demand removal of Israel

I've known for at least three decades that a lot of Arabs have denied that Israel even had a right to exist, and that they have refused to even name Israel, let alone allow it on maps.

In many primary Arabic sources, this hostility towards Israel is very noticeable, but is often unacknowledged or even not known by non-Arabic speakers. I noticed a complete lack of this overt hostility in recent UK-based news stories over the past year.

Please, tell me I'm not alone in being aware of this for some time.

Did you know that this is often the norm in Arabic countries?

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

Conversely, here's a map showing (in green) all the countries that recognize the state of Palestine as a sovereign nation versus those who don't:

 

[JoshuaVonFlash]

OT: What do the three white areas in Canada represent?

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

Lakes.

 

[vilk]

So what do the people who live in the lakes think?

 

[The Shit Wolf]

So what do the people who live in the lakes think?

They live on lakes in beautiful canada...I don't think they give a shit either way

But I was wondering what that white was too, why did they do the Great Lakes dark?


About that map though, how/when do these countries decide who to view as sovereign? I'm honestly asking because I usually stay away from this whole discussion so I'm not that knowledgable other then the general history of the conflict but is it possible most of those countries colored green simply don't care enough either way to view Israel as sovereign? It seems like some (not all) of the countries that are not green are maybe more involved in the conflict?

 

[Xaios]

So what do the people who live in the lakes think?

"Soon, we will rise against the humans of the overworld and cleanse the infection that is MAAAN!!"

 

[Don Vito]

 

[vilk]

They live on lakes in beautiful canada...I don't think they give a shit either way

But I was wondering what that white was too, why did they do the Great Lakes dark?


About that map though, how/when do these countries decide who to view as sovereign? I'm honestly asking because I usually stay away from this whole discussion so I'm not that knowledgable other then the general history of the conflict but is it possible most of those countries colored green simply don't care enough either way to view Israel as sovereign? It seems like some (not all) of the countries that are not green are maybe more involved in the conflict?

I know that in many cases it has to do with who would have these countries backs if they got into a war. That's why everyone has a bitch of a time deciding on the wording to use in discussions about Taiwan--because the minute USA admits that it's a sovereign nation, we gotta have it's back if China starts pulling some shit. Because of some treaties or trade agreements or whatever.

Haha, I guess I know less about this than I thought I did when I started typing. I hope that answers your question a little bit? I'm not quite sure on the when aspect of it.

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

About that map though, how/when do these countries decide who to view as sovereign? I'm honestly asking because I usually stay away from this whole discussion so I'm not that knowledgable other then the general history of the conflict but is it possible most of those countries colored green simply don't care enough either way to view Israel as sovereign? It seems like some (not all) of the countries that are not green are maybe more involved in the conflict?

The map merely indicates which countries recognize the sovereignty of Palestine, not countries that don't recognize Israel. It's certainly possible that some of the countries that recognize Palestine don't recognize Israel, but the two things aren't mutually inclusive. I imagine there are countries that recognize both Israel and Palestine, especially since one of the countries in green on the map is Iceland.

 

[Skyblue]

The map merely indicates which countries recognize the sovereignty of Palestine, not countries that don't recognize Israel. It's certainly possible that some of the countries that recognize Palestine don't recognize Israel, but the two things aren't mutually inclusive. I imagine there are countries that recognize both Israel and Palestine, especially since one of the countries in green on the map is Iceland.

I'm a bit confused, when talking about the sovereignty of Palestine, are we referring to a Palestinian state, or a palestinian sovereignty over the territory of (what is today) Israel?

Hopefully I made sense myself, I'm getting a bit confused here...

Anyway, to me it just sounds like politics. To most countries I believe acknowledging Israel is simply a political move, "picking a side" if you will. It's not really a surprise for me, and it's not really something I'll probably duell about too much...

 

[MetalGravy]

They live on lakes in beautiful canada...I don't think they give a shit either way

But I was wondering what that white was too, why did they do the Great Lakes dark?

Because every body of water in Canada is frozen year-round.

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

I'm a bit confused, when talking about the sovereignty of Palestine, are we referring to a Palestinian state, or a palestinian sovereignty over the territory of (what is today) Israel?

Generally the former, though I suspect it is actually the latter for some of those green countries up there.

 

[Explorer]

That was an interesting map.

There are some who might not recognize a country, but will still have diplomatic relations with it. There are also those who don't recognize a country, and which will have no diplomatic relations with it whatsoever.

I found a map which shows which countries recognize Palestine, Israel, which don't don't recognize one or the other but still maintain relations, and which don't recognize one or the other and which refuse to have relations with it.

So it looks like there are about 10 small countries which don't recognize Palestine as a country, and which have no diplomatic relations with it. One of them is in Europe, none in North America. Of the three relatively close to the area, two are smaller than Portugal and one about the size of France. It's less stark than that previous map seems to imply.

It's interesting to see the that there are at least six times as many countries which refuse to recognize Israel, and which have no diplomatic relations with it, with almost 20 of them relatively close by.

No nuance on that side of the non-recognition/relationship spectrum. I doubt anyone is surprised by the difference between those two ends of the spectrum.

 

[Grand Moff Tim]

The previous map had no stark implications whatsoever, It was just a map showing one single statistic. It wasn't about countries that didn't recognize Israel, and it didn't imply anything about the non-green countries other than that they don't officially recognize Palestine as a sovereign state. To read anything more into it than that, stark or otherwise, is all in the head of the person viewing the map.

 

[Sumsar]

And update on the maps: Sweden recently recognized Palestine as a sovereign nation.
While it does not change the map alot it is one of the first european countryes to actually do this, and hopefully they will start a trend

About Israels right to exist: Historically they don't really have a right to exist, as the nation is guilty in crimes againts humanity - Israel was born out of a genocide and following mass exodus of palestineans ~ year 1950

However its also pretty unfair to say to the current population of Israel that they have no right to exist because their grand grand parents were some massmurdering assholes.

 

[Skyblue]

About Israels right to exist: Historically they don't really have a right to exist, as the nation is guilty in crimes againts humanity - Israel was born out of a genocide and following mass exodus of palestineans ~ year 1950

However its also pretty unfair to say to the current population of Israel that they have no right to exist because their grand grand parents were some massmurdering assholes.

So the year is 1945. WWII Just ended, the holocaust in Europe with it, leaving hundreds of thousands Jewish people homeless, many of them on the brink of death.
What do you expect them to do? Do you think Jewish people do not need a country for themselves? I think it was pretty clear by that stage that we weren't really favored in Europe.

Second, I don't know if you choose to write your opinion so one-sidedly on purpose, or is it a result of lack of information. The UN decided to give the Jewish people a country to live in, in the area that was then called Palestine, that was controlled by the British Empire at the time. By 1948, they offered a 2 state solution for the Jewish people and the Arabs who lived in Israel at the time, which was accepted by us and was rejected by the Arabs. They decided to attack, and eventually lost the war.

To be clear- yes, there were atrocities committed by Jewish (or Israeli, by then) soldiers during these fights, and during these times in general. I'm not denying that in any way. But I'm rather annoyed when people come and claim I have no right for a country of my own, and calling my grandparents mass murderers.

 

[Murmel]

Conversely, here's a map showing (in green) all the countries that recognize the state of Palestine as a sovereign nation versus those who don't:

Sweden has since a couple of days ago recognized the state of Palestine as well. Just adding some green in the smudge of white.

Edit: My bad. Our new prime minister has announced that he will, but hasn't gone through with it yet.

 

[Overtone]

First of all, let's all acknowledge how laughable it is to put an article from World News Daily Faith Edition out there as a solid translation and more accurate representation of the story. As if we can't have a story about Arabs that's accurate without getting the views of Pamela Gellar (big time Arab hating racist) and a "think tank" set up to criticize Arabs and Muslims.

Second, is it that the map shows Israel or doesn't show Palestine? There is no reason why an Arab audience should accept a map that doesn't show Palestine or the current borders of the Palestinian State. The main "war" against Palestinians is one of denial of their culture and existence. Using a map that only shows Israel allows that agenda to continue to advance. There is a widespread effort to delegitimize the existence of a Palestinian people and remove as many traces of them as possible, both from history and geography. Is there something wrong with NOT wanting to perpetuate that by using maps that deny there being any Palestine?

As for the show itself, it has some interesting things to add to the discussion. First of all, the most famous conetestant to be on the show was Mohammad Assaf, who snuck across the Gaza/Egypt border to win season 2. He became rather famous for being so young and so popular, and for the story of how he escaped a siege to sing, and was given many accolades and public appearances. Palestinian? Israel? Palestinian! As for the current season, the WND article mentions some Arab-Israelis. Question: Do those people stop being Palestinian because they are Israeli citizens? Hell no! Do they self identify on the international stage as Israelis? Probably not. Because Palestinian citizenship doesn't get you jack shit, there are still going to be a lot of Palestinians out there who are citizens of some other country. Whether they are refugees living in Jordan or people who never left their homes and became Israeli citizens, they don't give up their Palestinian identity. So it's very disrespectful if in any way one forces them to identify as Israeli. Finally, are there any "real" Israelis on Arab Idol? No.

Just like how Neil DeGrasse Tyson pointed out how the globe at the beginning of The Daily Show spins backwards, someone pointed out that this show used a map not apppropriate to the demographic. After all, most of the viewership IS in those countries that recognize a Palestinian state.

 

[sevenstringj]

First of all, let's all acknowledge how laughable it is to put an article from World News Daily Faith Edition out there as a solid translation and more accurate representation of the story. As if we can't have a story about Arabs that's accurate without getting the views of Pamela Gellar (big time Arab hating racist) and a "think tank" set up to criticize Arabs and Muslims.

Second, is it that the map shows Israel or doesn't show Palestine? There is no reason why an Arab audience should accept a map that doesn't show Palestine or the current borders of the Palestinian State. The main "war" against Palestinians is one of denial of their culture and existence. Using a map that only shows Israel allows that agenda to continue to advance. There is a widespread effort to delegitimize the existence of a Palestinian people and remove as many traces of them as possible, both from history and geography. Is there something wrong with NOT wanting to perpetuate that by using maps that deny there being any Palestine?

As for the show itself, it has some interesting things to add to the discussion. First of all, the most famous conetestant to be on the show was Mohammad Assaf, who snuck across the Gaza/Egypt border to win season 2. He became rather famous for being so young and so popular, and for the story of how he escaped a siege to sing, and was given many accolades and public appearances. Palestinian? Israel? Palestinian! As for the current season, the WND article mentions some Arab-Israelis. Question: Do those people stop being Palestinian because they are Israeli citizens? Hell no! Do they self identify on the international stage as Israelis? Probably not. Because Palestinian citizenship doesn't get you jack shit, there are still going to be a lot of Palestinians out there who are citizens of some other country. Whether they are refugees living in Jordan or people who never left their homes and became Israeli citizens, they don't give up their Palestinian identity. So it's very disrespectful if in any way one forces them to identify as Israeli. Finally, are there any "real" Israelis on Arab Idol? No.

Just like how Neil DeGrasse Tyson pointed out how the globe at the beginning of The Daily Show spins backwards, someone pointed out that this show used a map not apppropriate to the demographic. After all, most of the viewership IS in those countries that recognize a Palestinian state.

Except the State of Israel exists, whereas the Palestinian State doesn't exist. womp womp

(And before someone quips about those maps, 100-something countries "recognizing" a Palestinian State is meaningless to reality on the ground, which is simply that it doesn't exist.)