Are fishman pickups for me?

[JustinRhoads1980]

I have a Jackson USA Soloist with a SD JB/59' and I cannot get along with them. I have tried screwing around with the PU height, strings, amp, pedals, etc. and it is just not really my PU. In fact the 59' just SUCKS for leads and cleans it is disgusting IMO.


Sure I know this is the industry standard set and all, but it just doesn't cut it for me. I mainly play hard rock and metal. For metal I do everything from black sabbath to pantera to slayer to venom and yada yada yada.


I am in the market for new pickups.

I want something that has a good tight end and just sucks fucking mean. Ifwere to use it for cleans it would be a very dark sounding, but clear for dark clean parts in songs. That is what I would like in my bridge pickup. Also great screeching leads man

For the neck pickup I would like something that can do great leads, that are clean and smooth. Not very bassy. Something that is clean and great for leads.

Other than that that is what I would like.

I only have experience with one other PU set other than the JB/59' and that is the EMG 57/66 in my Schecter Hellraiser. I really like it in the guitar. Just wish it had a bit more aggression, and was clearer in the neck pickup. Though the schecter is made of mahogany so I am afraid that the tonal qualities might not match up with the Jackson.

My jackson is a maple neck through, alder body, ebony fretboard.

I have been looking at these sets in particular:

• Seymour Duncan: Duncan Distortion: Dimebag Set: Pegasus Sentient (not very sure on this set though)
• Bareknuckle Pickups: Ceramic Warpig/Alnico Warpig (neck)
• EMG: 81/60 X series
• Another set I was looking at is the Seymour Duncan Blackouts, but I would think those would be too hot for cleans in the neck? Am I wrong on this?

Anyways that is all. No more than $250 for a set please.

If any of you guys can give me some advice, tips, pointers, whatever that would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you guys!

 

[JustinRhoads1980]

*** Hey guys I am so sorry, I forgot to ask about Fishman Moderns. Wrote this late at night so sorry for the mistake.***

If a moderator can change the title to Pickup help that would be great, sorry for the incorrect title

 

[Flappydoodle]

I think you're asking a little too much if you want a bridge pickup which is dark for cleans but tight and screeching for leads. Maybe Fishman can do it with the multiple voices - others will have to help here.

I have experience with some of those you mentioned:

The EMG81 definitely does screeching leads, tons of sustain, and stays consistent over bends (due to blade magnet instead of pole pieces). It's also extremely tight - at least in standard tuning. However, the cleans are pretty thin, brittle and bright. Definitely not dark sounding. The 60 is a really nice neck pickup - the James Hetfield clean sound basically. Not too much low end.

Blackouts are notoriously known as muddy. I find them great for chunky riffs, but I wouldn't say they are "tight". They are also super hot, yes, not great for cleans at all.

Personally, I really like the EMG57/66 combo. The Fishman CLASSIC set is somewhat based on these, so that might be worth a look.

The Fishman MODERN set is based on an EMG81

 

[groverj3]

I also struggle to like the JB at times, and can't tell you how often I think about swapping it out. The thing is, there are few pickups that sound as nice on leads. I hate it for rhythm though.

If you want to stay with SD I can recommend the Custom and Sentient as a set. I wasn't a huge fan of the Pegasus, but the Custom is a great pickup that's nearly as good for single-note wheedly wheedies as the JB, but also sucks less for rhythms. The Sentient is lower output than the 59, but is less bassy.

If you think the JB/59 set are too high output I doubt any actives are what you're looking for (EMG or Blackouts). The Distotion set is also good, but it will be hot. Very hot.

Also keep in mind most amps/modelers can play clean regardless of how hot the pickup is. That you can't get cleans from a hot pickup is pure nonsense.

 

[Lemonbaby]

From your list, I'd go with the Pegasus/Sentient set.

 

[KnightBrolaire]

Blackouts are horrible, they're muddy way too high output (and I say that as someone that loves high output pickups). They can chug just fine, but the cleans are pretty bad too.

The ceramic warpig would fulfill your request for a darker pickup that has good cleans/screaming leads. It's darker on the low end and also quite bright on the high end. Definitely a high output and savage sounding pickup, but it has a TON of bass, which can be harder to control.

The Distortion would be higher output but is far from dark sounding. It can definitely do screaming leads though. It's good for more old school metal but also holds up for newer stuff if need be. Cleans are meh.
The dimebucker is notoriously bright and trebly, but it's very cutting sounding. I haven't tried it but from the demos I've heard of it, it cleans up just fine and nails the dimebag tone, though I haven't heard many demos showcasing it for other genres/riffs besides stuff from pantera.


I'd recommend the Black winters if you want to stick with duncans. They're a fantastic metal oriented set.
The bridge is tight and percussive, making it perfect for chugging/trem picking, with a nice grinding/snarly midrange and a good amount of high end bite. Cleans are pretty good and the pickup screams with ease. It's not a super dark pickup, but honestly, you're not going to find many dark sounding pickups that also have good cleans and screaming leads. Your best bet is get something mean as fuck like the black winters and roll off your vol/tone knobs to darken the sound a bit (putting a different value capacitor on the tone knob will help with that too).
The neck is nice and smooth, though not as smooth as say an alnico ii pro/slash neck or the liquifire. It's great for clean passages and for high gain soloing.

 

[BearOnGuitar]

The moderns might be too bright for your liking with the extended high frequency response in case you don't use the HF tilt. From your description it sounds as if the Will Adler set will come closest to what you want if you decide to go for a Fishman set. That or the Devin Townsend set which I feel both sound much more interesting compared to the modern set.

 

[TedEH]

Out of the ones I've tried, the Pegasus/Sentient sounds like the way to go. A friend of mine has a set of those (I think that's what they are) and they were pretty good when I tried them. +1 for Blackouts being way too much all the time and kind of weirdly muddy. I tried the moderns in a store, and they struck me as being kinda like EMG81s, which makes sense, but these are far from dark. If anything they were suuuuuuper bright. It might have just been that amp/guitar/pickup combo I tried but everything sounded kind of... glassy?

I just took blackouts out of one guitar to replace them with JB/59. I like them so far, but I can see why someone might not like them. They're very transparent to my ears - you hear a lot of the character of the instrument through them, which might not be desirable in your case.

Maybe the Crunch Lab + Air Norton would work in your case? Crunch lab doesn't sell itself as a screching lead kind of pick up, but it can certainly do that. Liquifire is my favorite neck pickup so far, but it is a bit heavy on the low end from what I remember, so you could go for Air Norton instead - it's the same vibe, but a little less bassy, from my experience. CL+AN could be a good way to go.

 

[setsuna7]

Fluence Moderns.

 

[NoodleFace]

Have you considered the nazgul?

 

[wedge_destroyer]

Maybe the Crunch Lab + Air Norton would work in your case? Crunch lab doesn't sell itself as a screching lead kind of pick up, but it can certainly do that. Liquifire is my favorite neck pickup so far, but it is a bit heavy on the low end from what I remember, so you could go for Air Norton instead - it's the same vibe, but a little less bassy, from my experience. CL+AN could be a good way to go.

Can't really speak to the CL part but AN is a go to because it is smooth and thick but not overly thick. Maybe Dactivator X, for the bridge with series/parallel switch.

 

[JustinRhoads1980]

I also struggle to like the JB at times, and can't tell you how often I think about swapping it out. The thing is, there are few pickups that sound as nice on leads. I hate it for rhythm though.

I am in the same camp right now. Pretty good lead tones, but rhythm, UGH! Need something tighter and more aggressive. Love a dark clean tone. Maybe the Dimebucker might work?

If you think the JB/59 set are too high output I doubt any actives are what you're looking for (EMG or Blackouts). The Distotion set is also good, but it will be hot. Very hot.

Output is not the problem at all, I just need something better for my guitar. The Jb and Sentient combo that I have in my Fender Standard Strat works fairly well. Wish the neck PU was different, but I can't point to what exactly.

 

[JustinRhoads1980]

I think you're asking a little too much if you want a bridge pickup which is dark for cleans but tight and screeching for leads. Maybe Fishman can do it with the multiple voices - others will have to help here.

Yea I might look into that since it has more voicings so I can prob achieve more. I cannot though find a wiring diagram for my control layout on Fishman's website. I think I am going to give them a call and ask them what I need. The amount you can do/configure with their pickups are insane, but poor information for someone wanting to figure out how to install it for their guitar needs

 

[JustinRhoads1980]

From your list, I'd go with the Pegasus/Sentient set.

Do you mind if you can elaborate a bit on why? Not questioning you or anything, but would just like to get a sense of what I need in my guitar

 

[JustinRhoads1980]

Blackouts are horrible, they're muddy way too high output (and I say that as someone that loves high output pickups). They can chug just fine, but the cleans are pretty bad too.

The ceramic warpig would fulfill your request for a darker pickup that has good cleans/screaming leads. It's darker on the low end and also quite bright on the high end. Definitely a high output and savage sounding pickup, but it has a TON of bass, which can be harder to control.

The Distortion would be higher output but is far from dark sounding. It can definitely do screaming leads though. It's good for more old school metal but also holds up for newer stuff if need be. Cleans are meh.
The dimebucker is notoriously bright and trebly, but it's very cutting sounding. I haven't tried it but from the demos I've heard of it, it cleans up just fine and nails the dimebag tone, though I haven't heard many demos showcasing it for other genres/riffs besides stuff from pantera.


I'd recommend the Black winters if you want to stick with duncans. They're a fantastic metal oriented set.
The bridge is tight and percussive, making it perfect for chugging/trem picking, with a nice grinding/snarly midrange and a good amount of high end bite. Cleans are pretty good and the pickup screams with ease. It's not a super dark pickup, but honestly, you're not going to find many dark sounding pickups that also have good cleans and screaming leads. Your best bet is get something mean as fuck like the black winters and roll off your vol/tone knobs to darken the sound a bit (putting a different value capacitor on the tone knob will help with that too).
The neck is nice and smooth, though not as smooth as say an alnico ii pro/slash neck or the liquifire. It's great for clean passages and for high gain soloing.

A lot of info there, appreciate it.

I am concerned about the dimebag set since the brightness is probably better combatted in a mahogany guitar instead of alder?

Warpigs are a good, but expensive option for me. How bad is the bass in terms of being able to control it? I really do not feel like spending somewhere near $300 for a PU set that has a possible common defect for it from the start.

The black winters are another option, but from what I have heard in online demos is that it kind has a twangy sound to it. I will try to find some videos where you can hear it.

Also what kind of capacitor value would I need for what you said?

 

[JustinRhoads1980]

Out of the ones I've tried, the Pegasus/Sentient sounds like the way to go. A friend of mine has a set of those (I think that's what they are) and they were pretty good when I tried them. +1 for Blackouts being way too much all the time and kind of weirdly muddy. I tried the moderns in a store, and they struck me as being kinda like EMG81s, which makes sense, but these are far from dark. If anything they were suuuuuuper bright. It might have just been that amp/guitar/pickup combo I tried but everything sounded kind of... glassy?

I just took blackouts out of one guitar to replace them with JB/59. I like them so far, but I can see why someone might not like them. They're very transparent to my ears - you hear a lot of the character of the instrument through them, which might not be desirable in your case.

Maybe the Crunch Lab + Air Norton would work in your case? Crunch lab doesn't sell itself as a screching lead kind of pick up, but it can certainly do that. Liquifire is my favorite neck pickup so far, but it is a bit heavy on the low end from what I remember, so you could go for Air Norton instead - it's the same vibe, but a little less bassy, from my experience. CL+AN could be a good way to go.

Hm, Dimarzio is something I really have not looked into.

 

[JustinRhoads1980]

Have you considered the nazgul?

Yes I have, but I would think that maybe it would be a bit too trebly and putting it in an alder bodied guitar might just make something that is just worse for me

 

[groverj3]

I'll say it again, but I wasn't a fan of the Pegasus. The Custom is, IMHO, the best pickup Duncan makes. Very "articulate" on complex chords, meaty for palm mutes, and screams (not quite like a JB) for leads.

 

[HerbalDude420]

You can try looking at guitarmory offerings to see if any suit your taste they have Metal and clean demos for all there pickups.

 

[JustinRhoads1980]

I'll say it again, but I wasn't a fan of the Pegasus. The Custom is, IMHO, the best pickup Duncan makes. Very "articulate" on complex chords, meaty for palm mutes, and screams (not quite like a JB) for leads.

I'll give a look into that.