are Piezos even necessary anymore?

[ShredmasterD]

if youre playing live and have an analog pedal board setup without a digital mulit effects devices, yes, piezo is still good to have and useful. i have a godin and a ebmm petrucci with peizo and they sound quite good when used with the right pedals. but straight out raw, not so much.

 

[MAJ Meadows SF]

I like them and use them. I’m not a big fan of the Piezo tone in the PRS’s but being able to split it into two amps is very useful and probably the best chance for a convincing sound. I haven’t tried the sims personally but what I’ve heard sounds good and probably would aid most players not wanting to do mods.

That being said, the Fishman Powerbridge system (and the power chip knob) is the best of the bunch for me. It’s just the bridge, knob. No extra jack or wood routing other than a small hole in the pickup ring for the wire. I’ve only used the TOM replacement on a PRS, KxK, and Gibson but it’s so easy to use and blend in magnetic coils for some cool tonal options. But all this depends on your specific guitar’s layout, because you’ll have to sacrifice one tone knob and have to hide the bridge wire, which doesn’t bother me at all. The KxK has a dark switch as well which changes the Powerbridge tone, and I’ve found that super useful.

 

[IwantTacos]

Too me a piezo says I paid an extra 400 dollars for this guitar. Therefore I always buy the piezo.

 

[thorgan]

I think piezos have a pretty narrow use, but are still useful.

For recording you should just use an actually microphone and acoustic guitar. For live shows where you are playing all acoustic you should probably just use a acoustic with a good pickup system and acoustic amp. But for shows where you need to be switching back and forth between electric and acoustic, musical theater shows especially, being able to flip back and forth without switching guitars and just using a pedal like the bodyrez or fishman aura is pretty valuable in my opinion. You keep it simple, you don't take up too much space, and chances are a second rig dedicated for acoustic in cramped quarters was not going to sound noticeably better to the audience anyway. So I think it's a great middle ground for people who need to cover lots of sounds but are not dedicated acoustic giggers, would probably never use it for recording though.

I should add though that I've never used any of the acoustic simulators on the digital modelers so can't really comment on those

 

[HeHasTheJazzHands]

in the world of digital, your piezo + a great piezo IR probably makes a world of difference. Piezo on its own, less so.

Comparing this to the acoustic sim... yeah, this sounds so much more accurate.

I think I recall Alex Lifeson doing something similar too. Would run piezos for acoustic stuff, but also run that through his Axe FX via tonematching his recorded acoustic tones.

 

[odibrom]

It sounds that many of you still look at piezos as an acoustic simulator. Piezos aren't just that, they are a sound source that can be processed into many different tones.

I don't run my piezo guitars in a different chain from the mags, I'll overdrive them, solo with them, mix them with mags (either single coils or hums), add some octave FXs and many other crazy shit. I'll chug, strum, solo, riff, lick, and whatever, clean or wet or overdriven. They'll deliver a clearly different texture and sound spectrum from the mags that I think is missing on most modern guitar sounds.

Magnetic pickups sound all about the same, hotter or softer, more this or more that but generically the same. Piezos are a completely different world, almost like an HIFI sound to work with and tailor to taste.

 

[budda]

It sounds that many of you still look at piezos as an acoustic simulator. Piezos aren't just that, they are a sound source that can be processed into many different tones.

I don't run my piezo guitars in a different chain from the mags, I'll overdrive them, solo with them, mix them with mags (either single coils or hums), add some octave FXs and many other crazy shit. I'll chug, strum, solo, riff, lick, and whatever, clean or wet or overdriven. They'll deliver a clearly different texture and sound spectrum from the mags that I think is missing on most modern guitar sounds.

Magnetic pickups sound all about the same, hotter or softer, more this or more that but generically the same. Piezos are a completely different world, almost like an HIFI sound to work with and tailor to taste.

This is why some people want hexaphonic processing in the next axefx unit.

 

[odibrom]

This is why some people want hexaphonic processing in the next axefx unit.

... that would mean a completely different hardware and software approach, probably transforming the AXE FX into a Roland GR unit of some sort. From all the brands I know of, if they pull it of, it would be awesome. Maybe they could go a bit overboard and not limit themselves to the hexa only side of guitar playing, hepta and octo would be grand... shit, why stop there? up to 12 individual processing channels, how about that?... that would mean 12 different hardware inputs at least and a massively powerfull (or multiple) processor...

 

[LunatiqueRob]

Piezos on any guitar almost always sounds plastic, including acoustic guitars. Only the very rare few expensive acoustic guitars have natural sounding piezos, and you'd have to really look around for one, because not all expensive acoustics have natural sounding piezos--it's a case-by-case situation.

I have been on the hunt for a natural/realistic acoustic sound without actually using an acoustic guitar for decades, and I've tried various approaches like Line 6 Variax guitars, acoustic sims, piezos on acoustic guitars, etc. In the end, the most realistic sounding were:

1) Variax acoustic guitar. It was essentially an shallow-body acoustic guitar with Line 6's digital modeling, so it can emulate a range of different acoustic guitars and other related acoustic instruments like mandolin, sitar, etc. Most of the digital models are very good, with few exceptions. Unfortunately it's been discontinued for many years now so you'll have to find a used one. And it also plays like a acoustic because it has the same steel strings. I wish I had kept mine, but I sold it along with all my other instruments years ago during a bad period in my life.

2) Yamaha Silent Guitars. This is what I use now. The SRT technology Yamaha developed for it is very realistic and natural sounding. It basically takes the sound from the guitar and processes it with what's essentially a form of convolution that captures the characteristics of a miked acoustic guitar. It's the most realistic and natural sounding I have ever heard and beats all the piezos I have ever heard. It also has piezo too, but it sounds as plastic as other piezos, so I never use it--I just use the SRT. Again, this is basically like playing an acoustic due to the steel or nylon strings (Yamaha has both versions), but with a much thinner/lighter body.

Getting a realistic and natural acoustic sound without actually miking up an acoustic guitar is extremely difficult, and even companies like Fender with their Acoustasonic series don't get it right, as well as vast majority of acoustic guitars' piezo pickups. Even the "good" ones like Ibanez's approach using combination of piezo, magnetic, and contact mic, don't always get it right. They might sound good when you don't compare them to anything else, but when you do, you'll still hear the difference, and simply miking them will still sound better than using the combination of those three types of pickups. The various Godin guitars also have plastic sounding piezo when compared to the real deal, but some models are better than others, and the good ones get close. But again, you'd be playing on basically steel and nylon strings.

IMO, if you want a realistic and natural sounding acoustic tone, you'll need to just mike an acoustic guitar, or use one of the two suggestions I listed above. And from what I have experienced, you're going to have to deal with the feel of playing an actual acoustic if you want that tone, because I have never seen/heard of a convincing solution otherwise.

 

[StevenC]

I can never tell if people use piezos the right way.

It always sounds like people are just using a piezo directly into a normal amp or board, when the right thing to do is send that to an acoustic amp or simulator of some kind. Because piezos don't sound like acoustics at all. They just sound better with acoustic simulation than magnetic pickups do.

So before your question can be answered, that has to be established.

 

[Estilo]

I saw a friend playing with his HSH Cort and his position 4 switch was very convincingly acoustic like through the PA. I tried another friend's strat with piezo saddles and immediately felt it wasn't worth it.

 

[Adieu]

Can somebody who's PRO-piezo link to a youtube vid that exemplifies what you believe to be ideal use thereof?

 

[odibrom]

There are no "ideal" uses of piezos, only user choices in this or that moment.

Almost all PSIORB's tunes have use of piezos somewhere, simply because that's what sounds best for me at that moment and my guitars do have other options, lots of them. For anyone curious, please check our 2019 youtube videos...

 

[StevenC]

Can somebody who's PRO-piezo link to a youtube vid that exemplifies what you believe to be ideal use thereof?

A piezo into something like a Fishman Aura is a much better imitation of a mic'd acoustic.

 

[algiman]

A piezo into something like a Fishman Aura is a much better imitation of a mic'd acoustic.

I used one for a while, but found that the bodyrez gave better results, for me at least.

 

[dspellman]

In the end, the most realistic sounding were:

1) Variax acoustic guitar. It was essentially an shallow-body acoustic guitar with Line 6's digital modeling, so it can emulate a range of different acoustic guitars and other related acoustic instruments like mandolin, sitar, etc. Most of the digital models are very good, with few exceptions. Unfortunately it's been discontinued for many years now so you'll have to find a used one. And it also plays like a acoustic because it has the same steel strings.

Okay, let's talk Variax for a bit.

There're essentially two options with the Variax guitars.

I have an Acoustic 700 (mentioned above) that's about 15 years old now. Edge of U2 has a couple of these things and uses them onstage. It's actually *not* a shallow-body acoustic guitar, though it looks like one. It's a solid mahogany guitar that has what looks like a spruce top. That makes it pretty much impervious to the feedback issues you have with most acoustics onstage, but you look like you're using an acoustic. That particular guitar has a bunch of acoustic models built in *and* the ability to use alternate tunings. I use one that has the low E and A tuned an octave down, to play bass lines, with the rest of the strings tuned normally. The sounds don't work all that well (IMHO) with a guitar amp, which has limited frequency response, but they're pretty darned accurate through a PA or similarly wide-range speaker system.

I've also got three of the electrics, including two newer JTV-89Fs with Graphtech Ghost saddles on an OFR. These guitars mostly model other electrics, but they've also got some decent acoustic models built in, and it's about the only way you can get an acoustic guitar and a Floyd together. Again, a standard guitar amp is not how you want to hear these models. But they sound mostly like a piezo-miked guitar, like the Expression series setup on a Taylor 814ce. Good, but not an acoustic miked in air.

The issue with miking an acoustic in air on stage is that you have to deal with feedback, stage volume, and every other instrument in a band/orchestra contaminating the sound. But there's a cure. You can actually download IRs of specific guitars miked in air. Drop them onto a Helix (for example), run your Variax through that, and you've got (for example) a Taylor 314 miked in air sound instead of your Takamine or Yamaha with a piezo. You can use these with the models in a Variax, and it's eyebrow-raising. All of this from a guitar shaped like a shredder super Strat.

 

[bostjan]

it's about the only way you can get an acoustic guitar and a Floyd together.

 

[Mathemagician]

I bought a Martin SC10 series this year as my first acoustic ever. Picked it up and it was super comfortable etc. get home and learn that it was literally designed with electric players in mind. Thinner nut width than many acoustics, thinner neck, unique bracing design to allow higher upper fret access.

It’s sort of in topic as I bought it to play without all my gear and to just sing along with. Now for recording? Idk but unless you’re recording an acoustic song I don’t think they may be “required” for like one passage on one song anymore like in the past.

 

[jeb]

I can't live without them! I have the Graphtech Ghost System on my live guitars.
Piezo out of the guitars in a aphex acoustic xciter pedal then in the helix with a acoustic IR.

Jeb

 

[wheresthefbomb]

Piezos are necessary so that noise artists can slap a contact microphone on a trash can, run that fucker through an HM-2, and then break glass bottles in said trash can

also you can attach them to a gross rusty piece of metal and then drag another equally gross piece of metal across it to make the most god-awful sound ever (also running through HM-2 naturally)

also you can inscribe esoteric runes on pieces of paper, clip on a pieazo, and then tear off strips and burn them in a ritual brazier (while running through HM-2)

YMMV but these are the main uses I actually have witnessed IRL for them and they were all cool as fuck