Are Scallops Important For Malmsteen Fluidity?

[nightlight]

With regard to Yngwie covers, I'd think the reason for using a Malmsteen strat is just for service to the cover. Perfectionism, in other words.

Lots of guys own Suhrs or whatever but will bust out the EBMM JP or Ibanez JPM for their Dream Theater videos. Part of it could be the tone search or to give the video the right 'look', although in either case I think these are facets of a common (and increasing) professionalism that Youtube guitar covers have aspired to over the years.

Here's an Yngwie cover I saw back in 2006. It was one of the first guitar covers I remember seeing on Youtube that was even remotely professional. It stood out at the time not only because Oziel Zinho was more skilled than most amateur guitarists uploading videos, but because this one was better quality than the out-of-sync webcam footage you'd normally see. Zinho used the proper gear, too, and seems to have recorded directly to the computer through an interface. All standard stuff now, but back then this was a rarity with those awful webcam-mic videos.

Maybe not the cleanest cover by today's standards, but more than enough to make an impression in 2006.

Awesome video.

I think it's cool how Malmsteen is back to being respected after a long period when everyone seemed to pounce upon him as a has been regurgitating the same solos over an over.

Being the archetype neoclassical shredder is a pretty cool bag.

I used to have an ESP FR-27 guitar. It was scalloped from the 12th to the 27th fret. Quite a cool axe, wish I still had it but traded it away to fund something else. The scallops really make for easy fretting and bending of notes.

Given that Yngwie already plays with a light touch, he probably finds it easy to play even lighter than that with the scalloped board. Since speed is his thing, seems like a good deal.

 

[MetalHex]

The fluidity is not from the scalloped board....

This is what I was trying to say before. Fluidity comes from technique, not the equipment.

 

[ajsfreily]

I've always been curious about this but I've never owned a guitar with a scalloped fretboard / really spent enough time with one to adapt to it: is this an important factor in playing Malmsteen stuff at speed? Of course I've heard many guys play Malmsteen on a regular board, even Malmsteen himself for sometime was playing a regular board back in the day, but more often than not if there's a player (on youtube) that really nails it, he has a Malmsteen strat or scalloped board.

So I'm not sure if it's causation or correlation. Certainly the guys spending all the practice time to get that speed and fluidity down are devoted fans and are likely to buy that guitar. But if it was me, I feel like I probably would have moved to a different strat at some point (mid-tier Fenders are usually not as good as Suhr/Navigator, or probably many of the other high-end strat brands I haven't played). So I'm wondering how important this is, maybe especially to wild vibrato on bends -- rarely hear anyone nail it just like Malmsteen without them.

Thoughts?

Not sp important. It helps grabbing the strings easier, for example when bedning, but intonation, especially with chords is more difficult. It is a matter of taste.

Having said that, having higher frets, bigger fret wires makes it easier in general to play.

A common misunderstanding back in the days, was that it was actually harder to play fast with scalloped, which is not true at all.

 

[Sermo Lupi]

Awesome video.

I think it's cool how Malmsteen is back to being respected after a long period when everyone seemed to pounce upon him as a has been regurgitating the same solos over an over.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I never got the hate. What I REALLY didn't get, however, was how Yngwie's existence immediately invalidated any other attempts at being a neoclassical guitar player.

Not that there weren't some terrible imitators, but I distinctly remember someone saying they'd never listen to Michael Romeo of Symphony X because--to paraphrase--'if I wanted to hear neoclassical wank, I'd just listen to Yngwie'. Being a big Symphony X fan even to this day, I didn't understand how that's all you could get out of Romeo's guitar playing.

'Neoclassical' was definitely a dirty word for a while.

You should check out the Ritchie Blackmore scallop style. He has it super shallow on the 1st fret, and get gradually deeper toward the 21st. Plus, he has it only right near the fret itself on the lower frets, rather than in the middle (between the frets) like on a YJM. I’ve never played one, but I suspect that makes chording WAY easier to do without making the notes too sharp.

Man, I had no idea this type of scallop existed. I never even realised Ritchie Blackmore used scalloped boards...did he start using them after Yngwie did?

Here's an image I found via the Gear Page, for the curious...

 

[Hollowway]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I never got the hate. What I REALLY didn't get, however, was how Yngwie's existence immediately invalidated any other attempts at being a neoclassical guitar player.

Not that there weren't some terrible imitators, but I distinctly remember someone saying they'd never listen to Michael Romeo of Symphony X because--to paraphrase--'if I wanted to hear neoclassical wank, I'd just listen to Yngwie'. Being a big Symphony X fan even to this day, I didn't understand how that's all you could get out of Romeo's guitar playing.

'Neoclassical' was definitely a dirty word for a while.



Man, I had no idea this type of scallop existed. I never even realised Ritchie Blackmore used scalloped boards...did he start using them after Yngwie did?

Here's an image I found via the Gear Page, for the curious...

Yeah, I don't know how long he has been using them. I think he's been playing longer than YJM, so maybe he has been using them longer. I mean, scalloping has been around since the dawn of time, so there are probably lots of players who have used them. BUT, the Blackmore style is likely better for the lower frets. And a used Blackmore strat is a few hundred dollars cheaper than a used YJM strat.

 

[Sermo Lupi]

Yeah, I don't know how long he has been using them. I think he's been playing longer than YJM, so maybe he has been using them longer. I mean, scalloping has been around since the dawn of time, so there are probably lots of players who have used them. BUT, the Blackmore style is likely better for the lower frets. And a used Blackmore strat is a few hundred dollars cheaper than a used YJM strat.

Blackmore is definitely the earlier of the two players in general. However, Yngwie claims to have come up with the scalloped fret idea independently (in a well-rehearsed story of which I'm sure you're all aware, involving a luthier's shop and a 16th-century lute featuring some form of scalloping).

Yngwie was undoubtedly the one to popularise scalloped frets. I guess my question would be whether one of the persons influenced was Ritchie Blackmore or whether he came up with the idea independently, too.

As for the practicality of it, yeah, I think you're right. The proper technique for your fretting hand is to place your finger right behind the fret wire, not in the middle of the fret. Therefore, the deeper and closer the scallop is to the fret wire of the adjacent fret, the more useful it will be.

That could be another reason why the Blackmore style would be better for the lower frets. Finger placement actually matters on frets 1-12. Frets 12-24, not so much.

Interesting idea to scallop the board that way in any case.

 

[nightlight]

Just thought I'd put in this quote feom Yngwie that I read today:
"When I grew up, there was no TV, nothing. The guitar could be my whole life. The kids today have Internet and TV and games and all that stuff."

Quite inspiring! I need to get all this extraneous stuff out of my life and start practising like I did back in college.

 

[narad]

Whelp, verdict is in:

Overall, not as much of a difference as I was expecting, both in the ease of bending/vibrato, and in the difficulty of chording without going sharp (or my ears suck).

On the pros, one thing I did like was how "guiding" the higher fret scallops are, since they're basically a tunnel for your finger and you can perceive that more than I had expected. I also thought big bends in the higher frets were easier, as well as crazy vibrato up in that range.

I found chording to be mostly the same, but weird stretch chords where my pinky or a finger flatting 2+ notes would often cause a dead note somewhere, they mostly all range out. That to me is the biggest advantage right now to me, though a situation that doesn't come up too much when playing electric. Though I did find some situations where you want to add vibrato to chords to be difficult -- I guess I'm used to leveraging a bit of the board in those situations. And the high e string can slide off the board super easily given that between the radius and scalloping, almost all of the ledge to support it is gone.

The guitar itself was a great example of a Malmsteen strat I thought -- materials seemed great, and the finish was in a good state. It had the DiMarzios, probably HS-3s. They were low-ish output and had me fighting a bit for getting a lead tone feeling. Would probably want to swap for the SD Furies or something hotter. Amp was a IIRC a TSL 2000, wasn't really a fan. Action was also pretty high, and strings were maybe 9s. Take all that for what it's worth.

It'd be cool to have one around, but wasn't blown away. Inclined to put big frets on my 20" strat instead, but maybe if this guitar ever gets down to $1200-ish, I'd consider it.

 

[StevenC]

Blackmore is definitely the earlier of the two players in general. However, Yngwie claims to have come up with the scalloped fret idea independently (in a well-rehearsed story of which I'm sure you're all aware, involving a luthier's shop and a 16th-century lute featuring some form of scalloping).

Yngwie was undoubtedly the one to popularise scalloped frets. I guess my question would be whether one of the persons influenced was Ritchie Blackmore or whether he came up with the idea independently, too.

As for the practicality of it, yeah, I think you're right. The proper technique for your fretting hand is to place your finger right behind the fret wire, not in the middle of the fret. Therefore, the deeper and closer the scallop is to the fret wire of the adjacent fret, the more useful it will be.

That could be another reason why the Blackmore style would be better for the lower frets. Finger placement actually matters on frets 1-12. Frets 12-24, not so much.

Interesting idea to scallop the board that way in any case.

Isn't Malsteen quite famously a massive Blackmore fan? Down to the white strats with scalloped boards and dressing the same. He 100% got the scallop idea from wanting to be Ritchie Blackmore.

 

[Sermo Lupi]

Isn't Malsteen quite famously a massive Blackmore fan? Down to the white strats with scalloped boards and dressing the same. He 100% got the scallop idea from wanting to be Ritchie Blackmore.

Wouldn't be the first time Yngwie embellished a story. Having said that, while Yngwie does acknowledge Blackmore as a formative influence, he does not claim Blackmore inspired him to try scalloped frets.

I just spent 15 minutes googling for more info and unfortunately most of the discussion about this is 10-15 years old at this point and suffering from a serious case of link rot. I couldn't find a definitive answer for when Ritchie Blackmore started scalloping his fretboards, nor John Mclaughlin or other early users. None of these guys wouldn't have started out using a scalloped board, so it is important to distinguish when they started playing or recording music from when they started using a scalloped fretboard.

Maybe a Ritchie Blackmore fan would know the answer. It isn't something that seems to be widely available on the internet, however.

 

[Hollowway]

I just cannot see the YJM Strat as any shade of white. I’ve always referred to it as yellow. There’s just no way my brain will process what as “vintage white.”

 

[MetalHex]

I like blonde

 

[AndyB]

blackmore started scalloping his guitars in the late 60’s. He specifically has stated 1966 in some interviews. He used sandpaper initially in order to mimic an old classical guitar that had a super pitted fretboard

 

[Dyingsea]

Whelp, verdict is in:

Overall, not as much of a difference as I was expecting, both in the ease of bending/vibrato, and in the difficulty of chording without going sharp (or my ears suck).

On the pros, one thing I did like was how "guiding" the higher fret scallops are, since they're basically a tunnel for your finger and you can perceive that more than I had expected. I also thought big bends in the higher frets were easier, as well as crazy vibrato up in that range.

I found chording to be mostly the same, but weird stretch chords where my pinky or a finger flatting 2+ notes would often cause a dead note somewhere, they mostly all range out. That to me is the biggest advantage right now to me, though a situation that doesn't come up too much when playing electric. Though I did find some situations where you want to add vibrato to chords to be difficult -- I guess I'm used to leveraging a bit of the board in those situations. And the high e string can slide off the board super easily given that between the radius and scalloping, almost all of the ledge to support it is gone.

The guitar itself was a great example of a Malmsteen strat I thought -- materials seemed great, and the finish was in a good state. It had the DiMarzios, probably HS-3s. They were low-ish output and had me fighting a bit for getting a lead tone feeling. Would probably want to swap for the SD Furies or something hotter. Amp was a IIRC a TSL 2000, wasn't really a fan. Action was also pretty high, and strings were maybe 9s. Take all that for what it's worth.

It'd be cool to have one around, but wasn't blown away. Inclined to put big frets on my 20" strat instead, but maybe if this guitar ever gets down to $1200-ish, I'd consider it.

Just my .02 the thing is though once you play a scalloped board for a while you don't quite notice it but your feel and technique will change. Going back to a regular board will really shine on the light on that after playing one for a while. Again it's not a sudden 180 but the differences are there and can be quite dramatic between the two depending on how one plays.

Best way I know to say it is does an LP sound like a strat? no. Do they sound like guitars? yes.

 

[jwoods986]

Whelp, verdict is in:

Overall, not as much of a difference as I was expecting, both in the ease of bending/vibrato, and in the difficulty of chording without going sharp (or my ears suck).

On the pros, one thing I did like was how "guiding" the higher fret scallops are, since they're basically a tunnel for your finger and you can perceive that more than I had expected. I also thought big bends in the higher frets were easier, as well as crazy vibrato up in that range.

I found chording to be mostly the same, but weird stretch chords where my pinky or a finger flatting 2+ notes would often cause a dead note somewhere, they mostly all range out. That to me is the biggest advantage right now to me, though a situation that doesn't come up too much when playing electric. Though I did find some situations where you want to add vibrato to chords to be difficult -- I guess I'm used to leveraging a bit of the board in those situations. And the high e string can slide off the board super easily given that between the radius and scalloping, almost all of the ledge to support it is gone.

The guitar itself was a great example of a Malmsteen strat I thought -- materials seemed great, and the finish was in a good state. It had the DiMarzios, probably HS-3s. They were low-ish output and had me fighting a bit for getting a lead tone feeling. Would probably want to swap for the SD Furies or something hotter. Amp was a IIRC a TSL 2000, wasn't really a fan. Action was also pretty high, and strings were maybe 9s. Take all that for what it's worth.

It'd be cool to have one around, but wasn't blown away. Inclined to put big frets on my 20" strat instead, but maybe if this guitar ever gets down to $1200-ish, I'd consider it.

Did you try one of the EJ Strats for comparison? That's an interesting condradiction - the loose feeling YJM with 9s and scallops vs. the stiff-as-a-board strings of the EJ with 10s and 5 trem springs installed.

I have a cheap G&L Tribute strat that I'm thinking of scalloping from the 12th fret up, has anyone tried these guys? http://www.dccustomguitars.com/scalloping.htm

If you scroll down to the middle of the page, there's a pic with the caption "Yngwie style full scallops for one of our OEM customers". There's only one OEM guitar with a fully scalloped neck (Jems are 21-24) and those are definitely large 70s Strat headstocks w/ bullet truss rod, so I'm assuming this company scallops the YJM necks for Fender??

 

[MatiasTolkki]

Blackmore is definitely the earlier of the two players in general. However, Yngwie claims to have come up with the scalloped fret idea independently (in a well-rehearsed story of which I'm sure you're all aware, involving a luthier's shop and a 16th-century lute featuring some form of scalloping).

Yngwie was undoubtedly the one to popularise scalloped frets. I guess my question would be whether one of the persons influenced was Ritchie Blackmore or whether he came up with the idea independently, too.

As for the practicality of it, yeah, I think you're right. The proper technique for your fretting hand is to place your finger right behind the fret wire, not in the middle of the fret. Therefore, the deeper and closer the scallop is to the fret wire of the adjacent fret, the more useful it will be.

That could be another reason why the Blackmore style would be better for the lower frets. Finger placement actually matters on frets 1-12. Frets 12-24, not so much.

Interesting idea to scallop the board that way in any case.

Yngwie claims to be the owner of everything, even moreso that Gene Simmons. Scalloped frets existed before yngwie, and I think even Uli had them before Yngwie.

 

[dreamchaser]

Yngwie claims to be the owner of everything, even moreso that Gene Simmons. Scalloped frets existed before yngwie, and I think even Uli had them before Yngwie.

Early 1980s with the Sky guitars for sure.

 

[Hollowway]

If you scroll down to the middle of the page, there's a pic with the caption "Yngwie style full scallops for one of our OEM customers". There's only one OEM guitar with a fully scalloped neck (Jems are 21-24) and those are definitely large 70s Strat headstocks w/ bullet truss rod, so I'm assuming this company scallops the YJM necks for Fender??

No. I’m sure it’s just some small luthier who asked him to do it for a customer.

And if it were me, I’d probably just order a new neck from Warmoth before I’d send mine in to him. I have 2 things I’ve sent off to people to work on that I still haven’t gotten back. No way in Hell I’d trust a one man operation with anything other than money and a PP buyer protection these days.