Are tube amps the new vinyl?

[Marked Man]

This is one of the reasons I haven't gone modeling after my Axe Fx Ultra which I still have but don't use. There is just way too much tweaking to find "The sound" and it is too easy to never be satisfied wanting more or a better sound than what you currently have. Funny after all these years I check in on the new Axe Fx threads when they pop up and see if they ever got to a point where they don't need a new firmware update. Still waiting on that. I've bought two tube amps and spent more than enough on tubes which isn't great but at least I know it is real and sounds good and tweaking is pricey so I can't go nuts with it.

I sold my Axe FX last year. Back to my trusty Marks and pedal board.

It was never going to be a replacement, just a supplement. But I am more satisfied with the real thing.

 

[torchlord]

That problem was exclusively with my digital solution. Both my Mesa heads can eat the PS200 for breakfast and go for seconds, including through a 16ohm 1x12. Shit, the Mark IV on the clean channel is loud enough for bass if you're brave enough, and sounds pretty good doing it. That's actually what convinced me that "tube amp sound" was what was missing from my bass rig, and most of the reason I bought the FM3 - because the usual solution of a tube pre + solid power just didn't do what I wanted it to. I wanted the SVT sound (or at least what I thought the SVT sound was, not the sansamp sound, or the stv-through-solid-state sound) without needing a crew to carry the amp around - and the FM3 was able to get me as close to that as I've ever been.


Honestly, mostly of my criticism of digital isn't even of the digital parts of the chain. I sometimes run my digital stuff through the power section of a tube amp and it bypasses every meaningful problem I have - the only catch being that it defeats the plonk, and is antithetical to the reason d'etre of digital - which is the convenience. Lugging a tube amp around just to bypass most of it and instead use a digital facsimile of all the stuff you just bypassed is kinda wacky. If it sounds great, then hey, fine, but it's a lot of extra work to land right back at square one. The weakness of digital (for me) is that it relies on solid state amps if you still want stage volume and don't want to defeat the convenience of light stuff. So I guess I don't dislike digital, I just dislike solid-state, and solid-state is usually what's paired with digital in order to get the most out of it.


I'll give you that. My Mark IV (must be almost 30 years old by now?) is noisy as balls right now. It probably could use a tech visit.

I'll agree with you on solid-state amps. The closest I got to having an amp that I thought was close my 500 watts Alesis Matica amp. It is an ancient 25 lb solid-state amp that I ran into a real 2x12 cab. The amp was already a bit old when i tried it and I wound up frying some traces in the circuit board, or so the amp tech told me. After he routed a wire around that part of the circuit board to make it work again, it eventually died again and I haven't touched it since.

The last attempt at trying a solid-state amp was the Boss Katana which sort of had the right amp feel since it has a transformer in it. I'm not sure how that works in a solid-state amp but somehow they put a transformer in it, but the problem was that the signal going to it wasn't nearly tube-like as it turned out. Unfortunately in my attempt to make it work like a tube amp which was loud, blew the circuit board on the first repair and a transformer on the second repair, and after the third time of it breaking down, it just sits and I haven't touched it since lol. Oh, it doesn't help that the good amp tech I found doesn't work at the music store anymore. I think that is why the smart guys buy really good amps that can handle abuse.

 

[torchlord]

I sold my Axe FX last year. Back to my trusty Marks and pedal board.

It was never going to be a replacement, just a supplement. But I am more satisfied with the real thing.

Don't worry when the Axe Fx 5 comes out with version 25 with the AI model tweak. You'll want another one. lol

 

[Shask]

I'll agree with you on solid-state amps. The closest I got to having an amp that I thought was close my 500 watts Alesis Matica amp. It is an ancient 25 lb solid-state amp that I ran into a real 2x12 cab. The amp was already a bit old when i tried it and I wound up frying some traces in the circuit board, or so the amp tech told me. After he routed a wire around that part of the circuit board to make it work again, it eventually died again and I haven't touched it since.

The last attempt at trying a solid-state amp was the Boss Katana which sort of had the right amp feel since it has a transformer in it. I'm not sure how that works in a solid-state amp but somehow they put a transformer in it, but the problem was that the signal going to it wasn't nearly tube-like as it turned out. Unfortunately in my attempt to make it work like a tube amp which was loud, blew the circuit board on the first repair and a transformer on the second repair, and after the third time of it breaking down, it just sits and I haven't touched it since lol. Oh, it doesn't help that the good amp tech I found doesn't work at the music store anymore. I think that is why the smart guys buy really good amps that can handle abuse.

The Boss Katana is a digital amp. It is basically a stripped down GT modeler.

I do think they have a great feel to them. They bounce more than many digital/SS amps. I think it is because they have an analog FET input stage.

 

[torchlord]

Digital will eventually win and relegate amps to a more specialized/niche market because of price and convenience, not because of their sound quality. Physical amps have a feel, reaction and depth to their tone that just hasn't been fully captured by digital alternatives (especially when experienced in person).

Digital will eventually win and relegate amps to a more specialized/niche market because of price and convenience, not because of their sound quality. Physical amps have a feel, reaction and depth to their tone that just hasn't been fully captured by digital alternatives (especially when experienced in person).

I'd be super shocked if they did, because if you look into how tweeters actually work you realize that is another downfall of an FRFR system. Most of these modelers rely on FRFR to be able to change back and forth from one model to the next in order to accurately reproduce the original amp. The best I heard from a FRFR system are expensive ribbon tweeters which by design work in a way that is similar to a speaker and they also reproduce frequencies upwards of 24 Khz but for some reason, you don't see any guitar FRFR systems using them. I only know this because I have a set of Behringer Truth 3030A monitors. Most people say you can't year those upper frequencies but I think they do exist in tube amps, but that is just my guess. I like this tweeter much better than my expensive FBT Verve 15 which probably has a titanium tweeter.

 

[torchlord]

The Boss Katana is a digital amp. It is basically a stripped down GT modeler.

I do think they have a great feel to them. They bounce more than many digital/SS amps. I think it is because they have an analog FET input stage.

I agree with your assessment of The Katana bounce, much better than most solid-state amps. All the others just sound clinically sterile. Maybe at some point in the future, they will figure out how to get that super expensive Waza amp into a Katana price point but even more flexible and better sounding.

 

[wheresthefbomb]

I hadn't done the math before but I couldn't legitimately tell you how many free-$5 basement shows I've brought $4-5-6k worth of gear to. I'm bringing $4k to a free show on the 30th. It'd be a lot higher but I'm only bringing one amp (I know, stop the presses).

On this we can agree. If I wasn't literally feeling compelled to do this on a daily (hourly, every thirty seconds I'm thinking about) basis, it would be the dealing with people unwilling to take accountability for, at the bare minimum, themselves and their responsibilities. I somehow ended up in another band with people after swearing up and down that any future projects would be me and the only other consistently reliable musician I've ever met: my laptop.

My looper is a better guitar player than most of the dummies I've been in bands with.

Tube amps are cool.

Modeling is also cool, for completely different reasons.

There it is boys, I cracked the code.

GULAG FOR YOU

 

[budda]

This is one of the reasons I haven't gone modeling after my Axe Fx Ultra which I still have but don't use. There is just way too much tweaking to find "The sound" and it is too easy to never be satisfied wanting more or a better sound than what you currently have. Funny after all these years I check in on the new Axe Fx threads when they pop up and see if they ever got to a point where they don't need a new firmware update. Still waiting on that. I've bought two tube amps and spent more than enough on tubes which isn't great but at least I know it is real and sounds good and tweaking is pricey so I can't go nuts with it.

They havent needed a firmware update since 13 firmwares ago if not more, but Cliff is always aiming higher. No one has to update a unit, as evidence with your ultra.

One of the differences between an ultra and an axe3 is how much less time it takes to dial it in. I’ve read this from long-time and new users alike. Basing current views from older tech would be like me judging a 2022 toyota camry by having owned a 1996 - lots has changed.

 

[Emperoff]

They havent needed a firmware update since 13 firmwares ago if not more, but Cliff is always aiming higher. No one has to update a unit, as evidence with your ultra.

One of the differences between an ultra and an axe3 is how much less time it takes to dial it in. I’ve read this from long-time and new users alike. Basing current views from older tech would be like me judging a 2022 toyota camry by having owned a 1996 - lots has changed.

If Fractal had proper EU distribution and a better UI, they'd be everywhere. Something that's great about both Fractal and Line6 is that unlike the rest of manufacturers they really support their products with free updates instead of relying on programmed obsolescence.

These days a lot of people are jumping into current chinese brands (Mooer, Hotone, Valeton..). They have great UI and sound great. There's always a catch, though (like latency or switching lag, for instance), and in most cases there's like zero support on them.

Meanwhile I'm happy with my Boss GT-1000. The UI sucks and the modelling is okay, but the form factor and latency are god tier.