Are tube amps the new vinyl?

[STRHelvete]

The guitar nerd in me loves a tube amp and full stack. It's a great feeling to play a tube amp stack loud.

But the adult in me doesn't give a shit as long as I get what I need out of it...so I have a Helix and I don't really want anything else. I need simplicity, access to lots of sounds (guitar, vocals, bass, and synth), ease of use for both live and recording (especially recording as that's where I spend most of my musical effort), and functionality such as midi, running signals,etc. There's no single tube amp on the market that will do all of that and if there was one the price would be astronomical. Helix is much cheaper, doesn't rely on tubes/biasing/etc, and has everything I need in a single unit. Not only that but the Helix sounds great so I don't feel like I'm missing anything.

Tube amps are unmatched for power and whatnot but these days modeling is just the more logical choice.

 

[Stiman]

In my experience, I can't deny the plonk factor. I've spend probably a total of 5 minutes in a year tweaking my 5150 amp. Sounded excellent with everything at 5 as well. My Helix patches I'm constantly tweaking, and it's taken a lot to get them where they are today.

But, once I have them build, I can quickly A/B my amp and Helix and they sound equally as good I'd say.

 

[budda]

I dunno man, maybe in a recorded context, but stick it on a cab, and the tube amp still has that last 10% where everything just comes together. It's not an approximation, it's not faking the speaker interaction, it's just doing the original thing it's supposed to do. Sort of by definition, a model is only ever an approximation of the thing it's modelling. So if the real amp sound is the goal - which for me, it generally is - then you can't ever do "better" than going right to the source. It's close, or even "close enough", but better....? Eeeeeeeeh, it's subjective.

Noise floor. My real amps love to hum, my axefx doesnt. Also the plonk factor aint shit when your amp dies (this has happened to me live twice. Sucks).

In my experience, I can't deny the plonk factor. I've spend probably a total of 5 minutes in a year tweaking my 5150 amp. Sounded excellent with everything at 5 as well. My Helix patches I'm constantly tweaking, and it's taken a lot to get them where they are today.

But, once I have them build, I can quickly A/B my amp and Helix and they sound equally as good I'd say.

Perhaps its less the modelling more the helix? I learned a friend was always tweaking his LT where I thought he had set and forget.

Oh and no tube amps arent the new vinyl here, I sold my record player but have bought tube amps

 

[STRHelvete]

Perhaps its less the modelling more the helix? I learned a friend was always tweaking his LT where I thought he had set and forget.

Maybe I'm just super basic but it didn't take me long to find what works on the Helix. The thing is with a modeler you have a never ending supply of options and even more options when Helix updates and throws new stuff in. I think you spend time playing with things and seeing what the options do but if you know the sound you're after you can dial it in easy.

I like boosted hot rodded Marshalls through V30s drenched in chorus. Tubescreamer into BE-100 into V30/T75 cabs with 4 voice chorus thrown on. Boom..that's it. Sometimes I play around with it just because I can BUT my sound is already there.

I wanted a more modern style Prince lead. Downloaded someone's Prince setup, made adjustments, boom..done.

I had the same ease with clean and crunch tones. I don't spend time every time I turn the Helix on doing a bunch of tweaking. What for? My core tones were easy to dial in and if I need to adjust for live band EQ purposes or something it's just like a tube amp..just turn a few knobs until you sound better.

Part of the fun of having a modeler is playing in the sandbox so to speak. You can spend all day dreaming up all kinds of setups and combinations..but I don't think you ever HAVE to do that just to get some useable. If you can't get a good sound out of the Helix in a short amount of time, that's not on the modeler.

 

[TedEH]

Except the "if it's not a 16 ohms Orange 1x12"

That problem was exclusively with my digital solution. Both my Mesa heads can eat the PS200 for breakfast and go for seconds, including through a 16ohm 1x12. Shit, the Mark IV on the clean channel is loud enough for bass if you're brave enough, and sounds pretty good doing it. That's actually what convinced me that "tube amp sound" was what was missing from my bass rig, and most of the reason I bought the FM3 - because the usual solution of a tube pre + solid power just didn't do what I wanted it to. I wanted the SVT sound (or at least what I thought the SVT sound was, not the sansamp sound, or the stv-through-solid-state sound) without needing a crew to carry the amp around - and the FM3 was able to get me as close to that as I've ever been.

having a cab and power amp

Honestly, mostly of my criticism of digital isn't even of the digital parts of the chain. I sometimes run my digital stuff through the power section of a tube amp and it bypasses every meaningful problem I have - the only catch being that it defeats the plonk, and is antithetical to the reason d'etre of digital - which is the convenience. Lugging a tube amp around just to bypass most of it and instead use a digital facsimile of all the stuff you just bypassed is kinda wacky. If it sounds great, then hey, fine, but it's a lot of extra work to land right back at square one. The weakness of digital (for me) is that it relies on solid state amps if you still want stage volume and don't want to defeat the convenience of light stuff. So I guess I don't dislike digital, I just dislike solid-state, and solid-state is usually what's paired with digital in order to get the most out of it.

Noise floor. My real amps love to hum, my axefx doesnt.

I'll give you that. My Mark IV (must be almost 30 years old by now?) is noisy as balls right now. It probably could use a tech visit.

 

[Necky379]

I use both. A VST on my PC isn’t the same experience as plugging into a half stack and standing in front of it with the volume up and a half stack is not accessible or practical on the couch at 10 pm. In my mid 30’s with a full time job and a family starting it’s pretty safe to say I will not be gig’ing any time soon, possibly ever. I was lucky enough to have disposable income at a time I didn’t have many responsibilities and I now I have all the amps I ever wanted. I’m not overly concerned with the future of amplification. I just watch the value increase and consider myself lucky.

What I like most about modern options is that platforms like AmpHub alleviate GAS. I can use the amps I don’t have without spending much. It’s a great time to play guitar, these plugins are incredible.

 

[wheresthefbomb]

I think part of this comes down to a dichotomy that's been discussed here before: some folks do better with more options, and some folks (like me) get totally weeded. I'm a lot more creative and fulfilled working within clear limitations. I've got a large pedalboard and a W/D/W wall of amps that might look excessive to an outsider, but I've pieced it together slowly over the years and spent time learning the ins and outs of each individual component as well as how they work together. I recently traded myself down to one guitar and I couldn't be happier. No choices, no fretting (lol) about which guitar does what thing best, grab my axe and start making shit happen.

I'm also very visual/kinesthetic. Menu surfing and too many layered functionalities totally overwhelm me. I think that for more "analog" brained folks like myself, tube/SS (I make no distinction here, I use and love both) will always be more approachable.

 

[GunpointMetal]

I’ve found the last ten years of modelers to only be as complicated as you want them to be. For my live DI sounds I use virtual Fredman-style 57s on a Mesa OS cab and a 5150-style amp and a bunch of random stomp boxes, but it’s just like a pedalboard once it’s set up and I pretty much only fuck with my live patches when we write new music that needs different FX. Definitely not spending ages menu diving to add a chorus or whatever. But I also understand some people can’t see a parameter and not fuck with it even if what they have already sounds good.

 

[Fenriswolf]

The main reason I like actual amps (other than I'm a ludite and modelers confuse the shit out of me), when you want another sound with an amp, you have to buy a new one. And let's face it, name one person on here who doesn't like being able to say

 

[Hollowway]

There will always be a place for things that are older, took more time and care to create, and are more analog. People just like that stuff. There is absolutely no reason for people to have analog wristwatches, either, but that's still a huge thing. I personally dig old stuff, as I think a lot of us do, and I consider myself an early adopter modernist. But there will always be a place for stuff made in a way you can feel an attachment to the builder/creator. IMO, anyway.

 

[narad]

Now that NAMM's over, slow news month for the gear magazines, eh?

 

[Fenriswolf]

There will always be a place for things that are older, took more time and care to create, and are more analog. People just like that stuff. There is absolutely no reason for people to have analog wristwatches, either, but that's still a huge thing. I personally dig old stuff, as I think a lot of us do, and I consider myself an early adopter modernist. But there will always be a place for stuff made in a way you can feel an attachment to the builder/creator. IMO, anyway.

Exactly. I have a touch of the tism, so it fascinates me how my how they can make it wind itself in something that small. That being said, I spend a lot of time out in the woods. You can either know how to use a watch as a compass, carry a compass with me, or get a G Shock that has a compass that comes up when I hit one button.

Same as with music, I have a turntable, because there are some albums I like you can really only get on a record, but I just stream music on my phone when I'm in the car. There's a time and place for the old and the new.

 

[Werecow]

Not only do i like amps, i don't play through anything less than a 4x12. 4x12s are awesome, even at bedroom level.

 

[Fenriswolf]

Not only do i like amps, i don't play through anything less than a 4x12. 4x12s are awesome, even at bedroom level.

As someone who live somewhere I can play a 120w 212 at a decent volume...

 

[Werecow]

As someone who live somewhere I can play a 120w 212 at a decent volume...

I've never owned a cab smaller than a 4x12, and after trying smaller cabs and combos, never wanted anything smaller. I regularly play in the middle of the night with my 50w EVH + 4x12, and it sounds great. 4x12 are just better at any volume.

 

[Fenriswolf]

I've never owned a cab smaller than a 4x12, and after trying smaller cabs and combos, never wanted anything smaller. I regularly play in the middle of the night with my 50w EVH + 4x12, and it sounds great. 4x12 are just better at any volume.

I don't know the whole breakdown of all the EVH amps, I've had a 5150, 6505, and now I have a 6505 mini head. Does your EVH have a volume or are they still pre and post gain? I'm not knocking 412s, but back when I was in a band we had one of those gigs where everything went wrong and I was the only guitar player the audience could hear, because they had amps that sounded good, but I had a 212 Peavey that I could only get up to around 6 before I was overpowering the PA.

 

[Werecow]

I don't know the whole breakdown of all the EVH amps, I've had a 5150, 6505, and now I have a 6505 mini head. Does your EVH have a volume or are they still pre and post gain? I'm not knocking 412s, but back when I was in a band we had one of those gigs where everything went wrong and I was the only guitar player the audience could hear, because they had amps that sounded good, but I had a 212 Peavey that I could only get up to around 6 before I was overpowering the PA.

EVH has a volume, yes, and sound really good at almost whisper quiet volumes.

 

[Fenriswolf]

EVH has a volume, yes, and sound really good at almost whisper quiet volumes.

Ok, that makes sense, I've never had a tube amp with a volume, just pre and post gain.

 

[cindarkness]

Not only do i like amps, i don't play through anything less than a 4x12. 4x12s are awesome, even at bedroom level.

Come tell that to my neighbours. I'm still not convinced that a EVH with 2x12 is something I can manage in a Soviet era apartment complex with reinforced concrete walls and floors. Even had to sell my Katana 50 because "it was loud" lmao. Maybe if I put it on a mattress and cover with three blankets..

A multi FX unit into a pair of studio monitors is great though.