Argh! Criteria for tuning? Coming from piano background...

[Dusty Chalk]

I'm a newb to guitars and I can't decide on a tuning. Are there any other piano players who moved to (or added on to) guitars? Is there a particular tuning you like? The main reason I went with a 7-string (as well as a NS/Stick) is for the range -- I keep wanting to play notes lower than the lowest note, so that additional string is exactly what I want. And I have sufficient musical theory background that I understand how to revoice chords for the guitar and I have no problem with that.

In fact, I'll probably ignore all advice given, keep experimenting, and settle on something on my own anyway. But I'd still like to hear from you if nothing else just to tell me "this is the best tuning evar!"

I'm just venting I guess. Grrr...argh!

 

[Promit]

To be honest, I'd recommend staying with a completely standard tuning for an extended period of time (months or more). It's tempting to put all the musical background to use and start toying with chords and stuff, but you should focus on the core mechanics of playing the guitar in a more traditional way first. Experimentation now will distract you from the actual problems at hand, so to speak.

 

[yingmin]

It may help you to try a modified tuning that uses more thirds rather than fourths, so it's easier to find chords. Consider something like A - E - B - F# - A - C# - E. The bottom four strings are fifths, and the top three are alternating minor and major thirds, such that you have a major chord on string 1-3 and a minor chord on 2-4.

 

[JohnIce]

Definitely try out perfect fourths tuning. I used it for a few months and it really made a ton of sense and made improvising easier (even though I've been improvising for 15 years in standard tuning).

The only thing that made me switch back was to be able to play traditional chords, or rather, some special voicings I've already implemented into my songs.

So it depends on how much of a traditionalist you want to be (frankly, I don't think we need more traditionalists at this point ) and how badly you want to play that A barre chord the same way it's always played by everybody.

To be honest, I'd recommend staying with a completely standard tuning for an extended period of time (months or more). It's tempting to put all the musical background to use and start toying with chords and stuff, but you should focus on the core mechanics of playing the guitar in a more traditional way first. Experimentation now will distract you from the actual problems at hand, so to speak.

That depends on what you want to play Having already developed a "style" or musical identity on another instrument before going to the guitar is a privilege most of us didn't have. There's no need to start playing blues and country strumming just to learn the mechanics of a guitar, if you already have theory knowledge from the piano. If classic guitar repertoire isn't what you want to learn, then there's no reason to be tuning in standard tuning, which was designed for no other reason than to facilitate barre chords.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

No, seriously, I'm tabula rasa, so the idea of being a traditionalist is completely lost on me.

 

[JohnIce]

No, seriously, I'm tabula rasa, so the idea of being a traditionalist is completely lost on me.

Awesome Aside from perfect fourths tuning (which means tuning the thinnest strings up to C and F) you could also check out open tunings which means tuning everything in fifths with your choice of major or minor third on top. I'd recommend minor cause then you can fret the major should you want to, which doesn't work the other way around.

Here's Devin Townsend on Open C (major):

 

[Solodini]

Do you want to reach lower notes relative to the key you're in or just objectively lower notes? If it's relative to the key, can you just transpose it to a higher key, to open access below the tonic?

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Actually, that's a good -- if leading -- question/point: I only get access to those notes at the bottom of the neck, so...yeah, I should definitely play with the extra chordal possibilities of having access to those notes on the additional string. (It helps to have revisited this topic, because I don't think that sunk in until I read it a couple times.)

Thanks for all the advice, folks, I appreciate it. And I will try to stick with a tuning for long enough to decide whether or not it's for me, but ... I kind of remember when Fripp was first recruiting for his league of crafty guitarists -- he wanted players who hadn't played in a while, so that he could teach them the new tunings. I kind of feel like I'm in a similar boat, except without the having played before part.

 

[yingmin]

you could also check out open tunings which means tuning everything in fifths with your choice of major or minor third on top.

That's an example of a TYPE of open tuning, but it's misleading to say that that is what "open tuning" means. Another, more common open tuning (for six strings) is open G, where the first, fifth and sixth strings are all tuned down a full step, resulting in D - G - D - G - B - D. In this instance, both of the top two strings are tuned a third above the previous string. Similarly, open D involves tuning the first, second and sixth strings down a full step, and the third down a half step, giving you D - A - D - F# - A - D. Now there's no third on the top string at all.

Also, unless I'm reading you wrong, the tuning you describe is not all fifths, but rather alternating fourths and fifths.

 

[JohnIce]

That's an example of a TYPE of open tuning, but it's misleading to say that that is what "open tuning" means. Another, more common open tuning (for six strings) is open G, where the first, fifth and sixth strings are all tuned down a full step, resulting in D - G - D - G - B - D. In this instance, both of the top two strings are tuned a third above the previous string. Similarly, open D involves tuning the first, second and sixth strings down a full step, and the third down a half step, giving you D - A - D - F# - A - D. Now there's no third on the top string at all.

Also, unless I'm reading you wrong, the tuning you describe is not all fifths, but rather alternating fourths and fifths.

You're right on both accounts. I was rushing through the explanation

 

[yingmin]

I figured you probably knew all that. The clarification was mainly for the OP's benefit.

 

[ElRay]

It may help you to try a modified tuning that uses more thirds rather than fourths, ...

I'm a big proponent of M3rds Tuning. Some relevant sites:

• SevenString.org - Threads Tagged with 3rds tuning
• Ralph Patt's Jazz Web Page
• M3 Guitar -- Jazz on a 7-string tuned in major thirds
• A Comparison of New Guitar Methods: Introduction: Major 3rds Tuning

Coming from piano, it has some distinct advantages:

• It's a regular tuning, so you won't have to worry about the intervals between strings changing
• Scale runs are easier because at least two full octaves are right under your fingers in each position
• You can play denser, piano-like chords that you can't play in standard tuning

But it does also have some disadvantages:

• You need a 7-string guitar to get the same range as a 6-string
• If you're looking for a change, you won't be able to play more open, airy, etc. chords that you could with a guitar tuned in fifths
• It's not the greatest for the "Individual Trio" (aka Me, Myself & I) playing -- Especially if you're looking to play R-3-5, R-5-8, etc. Alberti Bass

Ray

 

[vansinn]

Gosh, I didn't know others were also using such fancy tunings

I currently have my Riot 8 in a hybrid 4th/M3 tuning:
(be gently with me if I've misread the tuning descriptions; my music theory could be better..)
(low to high) G#, C#, F#, b, E, G#, C, E
i.e., the first lower five strings in 4th, and starting from this 5th string, the upper four in M3.

I arrived at this by already playing the six mid strings in C#, but constantly felt that the M3 step, now placed from 4th to 3rd string, felt sortof out of place, especially as the top F# string didn't match my playing style and didn't fit with chords, so I tuned this top string down to F, i.e. another M3 step.

Now feeling somewhat better, something was still annoying me.
I had already tried tuning the whole shebang in all-M3 and likewise in all-4th, both of which being symmetric tunings giving me a more intuitive feeling for shredding.
But still, In the all-M3 tuning, I was missing the familiar 4th lower end, and the all-4th often didn't work for my chord works, so hence I gradually arrived at this hybrid 4th/M3 tuning.

It's a very sexy tuning that inspires to, and allows for, interesting alternative patterns which wouldn't otherwise naturally come to me in a traditional tuning.
It actually feels quite natural going back'n'forth between the 4th and M3 parts.

EDIT1: And I of course have my 7-string bass tuned M3. Also looking at maybe have a 9-string guitar tuned as above so below, i.e. same tuning as above but with an additional G4#


EDIT2: shouldn't this whole thread be moved to the music theory section - hardly seems fit for the beginners section

 

[Dusty Chalk]

That's up to the mods. I figured it was well-trodden territory, that's why I put it in here. But if you want to PM a mod, that's fine by me, I'll read it wherever.

I tried a couple regular tunings -- M3 and right now I've got it on fourths. I'm liking the idea of regular tunings because then transposition is just a matter of moving around on the fretboard. But I figure whatever I do, I should give it some time to see if it'll "stick".

^ That sounds interesting, too, and I could definitely see the motivation in doing that (keeping the high strings from going completely ultrasonic, lollers, or too tight to snap, with regular strings). I feel like there's a "divide" on the guitar anyway -- the bottom 3 strings are one thing, the top 4 are another. It would be fairly easy to think of them as two almost separate instruments, or like different "depths" of water.

 

[vansinn]

I just made a variation to my tuning in post #13:
(low to high) G#, C#, F#, b, E, G#, C#, E
The only change is upping second string from C to C#.

This is even more fun and useful, like sortof a hybrid of a 4th, M3 and open tuning, making it easier to to do both complex chords spread over open strings and positions higher up the board, and playing sortof power chords with diminished or augmented add-ons.

 

[Explorer]

@ the OP -

I wanted range and went with full fifths for quite a while... but eventually went to what I think is now called 8-string E standard (EADBCFAD). That's a guitar tuned down a whole step at the top, and the strings continuing down in fourths from there.

If I were never to play like a normal guitar, I'd probably go with full fourths. Full fifths was extremely vertical, and I did some major work out of cello books to get the hang of how vertical it was.

The reason I retain the major third interval, instead of going with straight full fourths, is that when you play guitar chords, that irregularity makes a lot of things possible which you don't get with full fourths. If you are thinking of using any regular guitar technique, you'll want that irregularity built into standard tuning. Go generate chords for full fourths versus standard tuning using an online chord generator, and you'll see how only standard tuning gives you so many comfortable barred chord possibilities.

It took me a while to go back to that aspect of standard, and I'm glad I invested so much time in another path. I gives me confidence in the reasons for my ultimately going with standard.

Whatever you choose, good luck!

Was this helpful?

 

[Dusty Chalk]

DBC? Wait, a guitar tuned down a whole step at the top is EADGBE-1==DGCFAD so 7 would be ADGCFAD and 8 would be EADGCFAD. So I presume you meant G, not B? (Sorry, I have to think these things through out loud sometimes.)

I tried augmented fourths (BFBFBFB) but even that was too "vertical" for me. I'm not even trying fifths without changing strings. I have to admit to be liking full fourths, although I think I've already begun to run into what you're talking about with the lack of an irregularity (e.g. a friend of mine started discussing Steve Khan's Pentatonic Khancepts with me and I realized it is almost entirely rendered moot). I will definitely be taking some time with standard tunings as well as yingmin's and vansinn's.

Yes, very helpful. I appreciate the continued input. And actually, now re-reading the beginning of the thread, there's a lot of good stuff there, too. I just didn't fully understand the implications of what people were suggesting, so thanks all.