ARGH!! THE PAINN!! OHH THE PAINN!!!!

[Naren]

So I've been practicing for about 40-50 minutes about every day on the Rusty Cooley lesson video thingy-mabobber I got off Chops From Hell.

I've been playing guitar for seven - almost eight - years now and I don't recall having experienced this before. I'm to practice each exercise for 5 minutes straight and I do that, with only short few second breaks to raise the tempo by 10bpm, starting with 16th notes around 130bpm and moving up to around 170 or 180bpm. Well, my right hand is no problem whatsoever. It's just alternate picking everything no problem, but the knife edge of my left hand starts to hurt LIKE FUCK. I mean, seriously. But I just keep ignoring it and pressing on, the ache building and building. Some of the exercises near the beginning aren't that tough in regards to this, but when I do certain exercises, it just hurts like crazy. One exercise, I actually end up not physically being able to play at all after a few minutes. At the beginning of the exercise, it just hurts. Near the end at around 170bpm or so, the knife edge of my left hand is throbbing and I can't even move my pinky. After the entire exercise is done, if I look at my left hand, the knife edge looks like a bulging tumor. The right knife edge is small and flat, while the left knife edge is bulbous. If I stop playing guitar, it generally returns pretty close to normal after 30 minutes or so later.

So, is this normal? I would assume it is, but I've been playing for - like I said - over 7 years and, while I focus mainly more on rhythm, I've studied lead guitar all throughout that time (starting with jazz, blues, and rock lead, then a few years later just classical stuff, and then more recently metal), but never very much. I don't think I've ever sat down and just played lead without stopping for 5 minutes like I am now, which might explain it. So what happens? Will the muscle there built up after a month or so and stop hurting? or will it still hurt even after that? I've been doing the exercises pretty much every day for the last 2 weeks and the pain and aching seems to be the same as it was 2 weeks ago. I've never heard any other guitarists ever talk about this before.

Any info would be appreciated.

 

[MattyCakes]

do you think a huge bulging tumor and no feeling in your arm is a good thing. jesus what kind of question is that. STOP IMMEDIATELY........... LIKE FOR A FEW DAYS.

start all over again at 40 BPM your technique doesnt sound correct. i practice for almost 4 hours a day from these same books not to mention my chording which is more of a pain in the ass.

economize your movement, all picking should be from the wrist, dont anchor thats probably whats bothering your tendons. always be limp never tense. its hard for anyone to diagnose a problem over the internet, but it sounds like you can be doin a few things differently

 

[Naren]

start all over again at 40 BPM your technique doesnt sound correct. i practice for almost 4 hours a day from these same books not to mention my chording which is more of a pain in the ass.

No way in hell I'm going to 40bpm. I find 130bpm way too slow, but I always use there as a starting point.

It could be a problem that my left hand starts to get tense starting around 150bpm or 160bpm (depending on the pattern - some patterns don't cause any pain at all).

Besides my left arm tensing up when playing certain patterns at a slightly faster speed, I can't imagine what would be wrong with my technique. Every note rings out perfectly clear with even volume for each note. I mean, it's not like I'm a beginner. I studied all the basic technique stuff over 7 years ago.

economize your movement, all picking should be from the wrist, dont anchor thats probably whats bothering your tendons. always be limp never tense. its hard for anyone to diagnose a problem over the internet, but it sounds like you can be doin a few things differently

There is absolutely zero problem with my right hand. I could pick an open string at 220bpm for an hour with no problem. 100% of the problems I'm talking about above are with my left hand.

do you think a huge bulging tumor and no feeling in your arm is a good thing. jesus what kind of question is that. STOP IMMEDIATELY........... LIKE FOR A FEW DAYS.

I never said anything about "no feeling in my arm." It's not a "literal" tumor. I just used the analogy for what the muscle looks like at the end of the exercise.

What will stopping for a few days do? My left hand looks exactly like my right hand after about 20-30 minutes after I stop and there is no aching or pain left. Whether I stop for a few hours, a few days, or a few months, I doubt anything will change.

If there was no feeling in my arm, I would be worried. But this seems to me just the same as overworking a muscle or tendon in a gym.


EDIT: And the title of this thread is a little exaggerated. It's more of "slightly painful aching" than the all-out pain I'm describing it as. There is only one exercise out of them all that I could actually describe as "painful" and it doesn't start to get painful until 150 or 160bpm.

 

[Drew]

It's just alternate picking everything no problem, but the knife edge of my left hand starts to hurt LIKE FUCK. I mean, seriously. But I just keep ignoring it and pressing on, the ache building and building.

Um, Naren. SERIOUSLY bad idea, bro. If it hurts, stop.

Learn to recognize the difference between a muscle ache from muscles working hard when they're not used to it, and tendon pain from moving in ways your hands don't want to over and over again.The first you should be careful with and not kill yourself, but expect. The second, when you feel it, STOP. At ONCE.

I had to take a month away from the guitar in college for this reason.

You may want to look into your playing posture 0 I have no idea what "knife edge" means in this context, but how low is your guitar slung? Raise it until it's at the same point standing and sitting, and work on building a natural wrist angle. Fuck how dorky you look, if you're having dehabilitating pain, it's already too late.

 

[MattyCakes]

No way in hell I'm going to 40bpm. I find 130bpm way too slow, but I always use there as a starting point.

It could be a problem that my left hand starts to get tense starting around 150bpm or 160bpm (depending on the pattern - some patterns don't cause any pain at all).

i obviously didnt read your post well enough, but there is still nothing wrong with going to 40BPM for practicing. its actually harder to keep time at 40 BPM than 150

 

[budda]

hell yes it is.

if it hurts, you stop doing it.

also, if you practise every single day, it wont help as much as practising for a few days, taking a day or two break, then coming back to it. your muscles need time to relax.

 

[Naren]

Um, Naren. SERIOUSLY bad idea, bro. If it hurts, stop.

Learn to recognize the difference between a muscle ache from muscles working hard when they're not used to it, and tendon pain from moving in ways your hands don't want to over and over again.The first you should be careful with and not kill yourself, but expect. The second, when you feel it, STOP. At ONCE.

Well, yes, repetitive movement in ways your hands don't want to sounds reasonable.

Last night, after posting, I tried one of the more painful exercises at a high speed but forcing myself to relax more and it was a lot easier to do.

I'm thinking that tensing up might be the cause of this pain.

I had to take a month away from the guitar in college for this reason.

You may want to look into your playing posture 0 I have no idea what "knife edge" means in this context, but how low is your guitar slung? Raise it until it's at the same point standing and sitting, and work on building a natural wrist angle. Fuck how dorky you look, if you're having dehabilitating pain, it's already too late.

I don't practice standing up. This is all sitting down with my guitar over my knee.

My guitar is slung pretty low for standing up, but I've never once had any pain while playing standing up. And since these exercises are all done sitting down at a position with the guitar around my chest area, the location is not the problem.

I may have an unnatural wrist angle on the 1 exercise that causes me actual pain. I'll have to look into that.

 

[budda]

yo Eric, when you play standing up - chestrock that bitch. You'll find it so much easier, because it's way more like playing like sitting down.

it doesnt look cool... till you start playing music and moving around

 

[Naren]

yo Eric, when you play standing up - chestrock that bitch. You'll find it so much easier, because it's way more like playing like sitting down.

it doesnt look cool... till you start playing music and moving around

No way, dude. I have it at the height where the top of the body is where my belt is and there's no way I'd raise it higher than that (in my old bands, I used to strap it a lot lower than that).

No offense, but I think people who chestrock look like nerds. Now, I don't want to get into a discussion of whether to chest rock or not, but I swear that I will never do that. It'd be like going to band practice in my younger brother's junior high school clothes and a girl's pink t-shirt.

Besides, where I strap my guitar has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. I can play better rhythm guitar where I strap than most chestrockers I've met and my lead guitar is at the same quality when I'm standing as when I'm sitting.

 

[budda]

I used to think it looked nerdy too..

and you know what? the guys who play their guitars higher lay me to waste. if the bottom of your belt is 2 inches above the bottom of the guitar, you're good.

but you wont, so im just typin for kicks

 

[Naren]

I used to think it looked nerdy too..

and you know what? the guys who play their guitars higher lay me to waste. if the bottom of your belt is 2 inches above the bottom of the guitar, you're good.

but you wont, so im just typin for kicks

You're right. I won't.

If guys playing their guitars higher lay me to waste, the reason for it has nothing to do with where their guitar is strapped and everything to do with them practicing more than me, possibly having more inate musical talent than me, and so on.

The other guitarist in my band is not a chest rocker, but he has his guitar strapped up quite a bit higher than mine. He's a much much better lead guitarist than me, but it has nothing to do with where he's strapped. It's not like I'm gonna sit down and suddenly lay him to waste with my sweeping skills and 8 finger tapping (then stand up and not be able to play the intro riff to Enter Sandman).

Marty Friedman plays with his strap pretty low for a shredder and he plays like crazy. James Hetfield in 1985/1986 was one of the lowest slung guitarists I've ever seen. I may respect guys like Rusty Cooley, but I think they look like super nerds on stage.

Anyway, we're way off topic since this has nothing to do with the aching and occasional pain I get in my left hand after practicing non-stop for 30-50 minutes on the Rusty Cooley lessons. But that might have to do with my arm/wrist/hand tensing up.

 

[budda]

permission to stay off topic for just a post longer?

it really is easier to play with the guitar higher up, which generally translates to better playing.

try it in your room with the blinds closed so no one can see, just for the experience LOL that sounds wrong.

back on topic: best of luck w/ the pain issue!

 

[Naren]

permission to stay off topic for just a post longer?

it really is easier to play with the guitar higher up, which generally translates to better playing.

try it in your room with the blinds closed so no one can see, just for the experience LOL that sounds wrong.

For you, yes. For me, no. I'm a pretty goofy person and there have been 3 bands in the past 4 years where I have joked about "stupid jazz guitarists in their 50s" (or whatever) and pulled my strap as high as it could go. I did it as a joke, but actually I find playing with the strap lower a lot more comfortable and easier to play. There are a FEW things that a higher guitar would make easier, but most things I find are actually easier when the guitar is lower (but not TOO low). In the past, the quality of my playing was pretty much the same, but my comfortability was WAY down. Personally I think doing something like that would make playing the guitar much harder, especially with my baritone.

You do realize that there is no way in hell I'm going to raise my guitar that high. I play with my Les Paul 1 inch below my belt, my RG1527 with the top of the body where my belt is, and my RG7EXFX2 with the middle of the body where my belt is. The reason for the different heights is that a 7-string is harder to play than a 6-string and that a baritone is harder to play than a standard scale. But the heights I use are perfectly optimum for me.

I'm not gonna try to convince you to lower your strap because that's the height you like, but I don't like it - partially because it looks gay and partially because it's really uncomfortable. I feel trapped... claustrophobic... Lower strap feels freeer and more comfortablerer.

 

[budda]

i dont wear my LP quite at nipple height, i basically pick over my abs.

i dont think we're tryin to talk each other into changing strap position so much as pointing out merits to each one.

I find playing punk style stuff easier with my guitar lower, the feel is just there. when i want to try playing "bloodmeat", i raise the guitar until its optimum comfort and picking control/speed.

s'all good yo

 

[guitarplayerone]

For you, yes. For me, no. I'm a pretty goofy person and there have been 3 bands in the past 4 years where I have joked about "stupid jazz guitarists in their 50s" (or whatever) and pulled my strap as high as it could go. I did it as a joke, but actually I find playing with the strap lower a lot more comfortable and easier to play. There are a FEW things that a higher guitar would make easier, but most things I find are actually easier when the guitar is lower (but not TOO low). In the past, the quality of my playing was pretty much the same, but my comfortability was WAY down. Personally I think doing something like that would make playing the guitar much harder, especially with my baritone.

You do realize that there is no way in hell I'm going to raise my guitar that high. I play with my Les Paul 1 inch below my belt, my RG1527 with the top of the body where my belt is, and my RG7EXFX2 with the middle of the body where my belt is. The reason for the different heights is that a 7-string is harder to play than a 6-string and that a baritone is harder to play than a standard scale. But the heights I use are perfectly optimum for me.

I'm not gonna try to convince you to lower your strap because that's the height you like, but I don't like it - partially because it looks gay and partially because it's really uncomfortable. I feel trapped... claustrophobic... Lower strap feels freeer and more comfortablerer.

I could see a baritone being strapped lower....

I think it has to do with finger length more than anything else. If you have long fingers, you can get away with a lower strap without the compromise of really arching your wrist down there. I have these little 'girlie' fingers, so I prefer to keep my guitar strapped at the same exact height as I have it while I sit, maybe just a little lower.

See there is pain, and then pain. For example, if this pain is coming anywhere around the wrist, etc I would stop immediately. However if someone is doing rusty's three-finger whole step legato exercises at the second fret (esp on a baritone), its to be expected that they will feel a bit of pain with their fingers hyperextending like that.

It's to be noted that while hyperextension might lengthen your tendons, its best to do it very conservatively. I heard many a story about a pianist always trying to reach more and more, only to completely destroy their tendons, and thus hands and technique.

You need to give your body time to respond, and adapt.

 

[Naren]

I could see a baritone being strapped lower....

I think it has to do with finger length more than anything else. If you have long fingers, you can get away with a lower strap without the compromise of really arching your wrist down there. I have these little 'girlie' fingers, so I prefer to keep my guitar strapped at the same exact height as I have it while I sit, maybe just a little lower.

I hadn't thought about that, but I do have pretty long fingers. My hands are literally like twice the size of my girlfriend's. Probably why I can stretch from the first fret to the fifth fret on a 27" scale. Nowhere near Rusty Cooley insane crazy stretching, but pretty long fingers.

See there is pain, and then pain. For example, if this pain is coming anywhere around the wrist, etc I would stop immediately. However if someone is doing rusty's three-finger whole step legato exercises at the second fret (esp on a baritone), its to be expected that they will feel a bit of pain with their fingers hyperextending like that.

It's to be noted that while hyperextension might lengthen your tendons, its best to do it very conservatively. I heard many a story about a pianist always trying to reach more and more, only to completely destroy their tendons, and thus hands and technique.

You need to give your body time to respond, and adapt.

The pain is not coming from the wrist. It comes from what I referred to as the "knife edge" of the left hand which would the flat area below your pinky around the same area as your thumb on the opposite side of your hand.

Rusty's legato exercises on the 2nd fret do cause a little bit of pain, but the pain there is in a different part of the hand and is a different kind of aching/pain.

Today and last night I have been trying the exercises without the metronome, forcing myself to relax everytime my left arm starts to tensen up. That seems to help quite a bit. Not entirely, though. My left wrist does hurt now, though, but not from guitar - from weight lifting yesterday. I did twice as heavy weights as normal.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[7 Strings of Hate]

naren, quit grippin your ding-a-ling so tightly

 

[Naren]

naren, quit grippin your ding-a-ling so tightly

Ohhhhhhhkaaaaaaayyy....

But actually, I'm, uh, right-handed. So if what you're saying were the case, it would be my right hand in pain and not my left.

[action=Naren]wonders if "ding-a-ling" is slang for "pick," but then remembers that that would also be his right hand and not his left. Hm.[/action]

 

[Paul Malmsteen]

Naren, I have had the exact same thing as you dude. I had just started learning lead work and got this pain on the side of my hand (what you are referring as knife edge I think) and it would swell up. I just stopped playing things that made it swell for a while and went back and played them again until it swelled a little bit and after a few weeks I could play things that would normally make it swell that I couldn't before. What I'm saying is don't stress it any more than normal but you will grow out of it if you are anything like me. =)

Treat it kinda like a callous, don't keep tearing at it if its fucking bleeding but if you don't do anything they will never build up.

 

[Fraidycat]

if it's the outside edge of your hand, and if your pinkey is going numb, get it checked out. Seriously. That can be a warning sign of the onset of carpal tunnel...