As a fan, do you appreciate free music?

[ZXIIIT]

Pardon me if I am jumping in before you fully explain yourself with regard to the "future performance/display in-person" thing but I don't understand this stance at all. If an artist produces something for public consumption and feels that they should be compensated for the time, effort, skill and thought put into the produciton of that art why is that wrong?

Not understand as in? it just means as in attend your shows, go see your performances based on them liking your music.

It's not wrong to make art, just the fact that some artists start off with the automatic mentality of "You don't know me, but I made this so you have to pay me to hear it" instead of "hey, would you like to listen to some songs I created? here is a 3 song sampler..." there's many bands in my area that have that mentality.

Just my take on it, I like supporting bands/artists but don't like to support because I'm told I have to.

 

[Rev2010]

Lets take Soulfly as an example:
Their albums costs 12$ USD if I was to buy them from their online merch store at roadrunner records.
If I wanted to pay for the same album right here right now at my local distributer, I'd have to pay around 30$ USD.

This is kind of off topic though as the topic at hand is about giving one's music away for free. I agree with you that brick and mortar stores often charge absurd prices and that is why I would rather order online and also why those stores are losing business with some even going out of business. There's used to be a Tower Records in the Village here in NYC, it's gone. We also had the Virgin MegaStore - gone.

But to comment on your point about costs, yes physical CD's cost more due to materials, pressing, printing, shelving, etc but that doesn't mean there aren't large costs incurred with making music, but I know you already know this. Cubase 6 cost me hundreds of dollars, tons of expensive software synths, effects, sample libraries, guitars, amps, electronic drum kit, studio monitors, mics, mixer, sound card, computer, guitar effect units, electricity, etc. Then there's also time and effort. I do all my own writing, recording, mixing, and mastering. I consider my time valuable and I see no reason I shouldn't be paid for it, my job pays me for my time

Now, I'm in no way saying I feel music should be all about the money - not at all, no way in hell. I would still be doing my music and sharing with others if I couldn't make a penny off of it. But if the option is there I don't see why not use it. And actually, if I could make a living off of music I would be able to then provide fans with far more material than I can having a 9-5 job.


Rev.

 

[Asrial]

^I've also payed for a great deal of gear and software, heck, I'm maybe 10k$ short from completing my planned production rig, yet, any material I'd potentially release should be on a pay-what-you-want basis, with physical copies going for production value + 5% extra to make a profit.
I'm not doing anything music-related as a job, so I might've gotten a twisted impression here, but still... It all depends on popularity, really, and people should rather move their flat arses to the venues. If you can put an album onto the shelves of a store, you sure can play concerts, and then we're back to the point of the big gun sales.
I still think an indie is to control his own album pricing, so if you want to sell your album for 30$ USD: Fair, but it has got to be more than stellar.

I just think that the "support the artist - buy their records" is sickening when the stores charges the same price for 2 albums as the game stores does for a high-end game release (IE Mass Effect 3 or Starcraft 2). Games of that caliber runs skywards in price, several million dollars in production, whereas CDs runs for a fraction of the price. 100k$ USD?
And no, it's not the brick-and-mortar price that's near 30$ USD. It's nationwide, and from the online stores too. You just simply can't find a decent record going for less (or it's rare).

I think we agree, so please don't make me write any more walls of text.

 

[Rev2010]

And no, it's not the brick-and-mortar price that's near 30$ USD. It's nationwide, and from the online stores too. You just simply can't find a decent record going for less (or it's rare).

You mentioned Soulfly, a band I'm a fan of, so I just checked on Amazon and the majority of their physical CD's for sale are $13, with some being a little less and some being a little more. But all the non-deluxe one's are under $20. Think about it though...(at least in my area) people pay $13+ for a movie ticket, a movie lasts typically around 90 minutes and you leave with no hard copy of the product. Why does everyone complain about a CD that you can listen to over and over costing $13, or $15, whatever? I do agree it's ridiculous seeing a standard edition CD for $30, but I almost never see that price, though I've seen $25 here in NYC and that too is something I will not pay. And yeah, I know the movie costs a hell of a lot more to make, but it still provides you with the same basic entertainment experience regardless how much the movie cost to make.


Rev.

 

[Asrial]

You looked at the US amazon, rite?
Taken geographical positions, the star and the moon into account and today I'm wearing white socks, I'd say I'm about... Really far away from the states. Around northern Europe, but I'm not quite sure there buddy.

Also, when you watch a movie in the cinemas, you pay for the experience. Concerts are also marginally more expensive than the CDs, right? Same rules essentially.

 

[Hybrid138]

Fans will always appreciate free music but I think it's our duty to do what we can to help our favorite artists out (buy merch, CDs, etc.) Sometimes bands put their stuff up for free, their entire album, but sell physical copies at shows. I've download albums for free from a band's website and bought the physical album when I saw them live. Making your music more available will always help you get more fans but the fans need(should) to do their part to help you out too.

 

[Rev2010]

Also, when you watch a movie in the cinemas, you pay for the experience.

The experience? Oh you mean the experience of people talking throughout the movie (often on their cellphones), movies not starting on time but rather after 15-20 minutes of advertisements, not being able to pause the movie when you have to run and take a piss, sticky dirty floor, and shitty projectors that project a far less than stellar soft dull image? Nah, I don't bother with that anymore, I either rent or buy the Blu-ray.

I get that you're in Europe, but I think it's kinda silly to use your geographical location to complain about the price of CD's as that isn't how it is everywhere else. I'm sure there are things in your country that would cost me a lot more to get over here. I've had many friends in the past pay $50+ for import CD's from Germany or wherever else. In another example my old bandmate from way back used to buy Neo Geo games imported from Japan at $200+ a piece, I can guarantee it didn't cost that much in Japan. Just saying.


Rev.

 

[linchpin]

Erm... could we not compare Hollywood to independent bands...

 

[Rev2010]

Erm... could we not compare Hollywood to independent bands...

Wasn't meaning too, was just pointing to how people pay the money for something like a movie so why is $13 for a CD filled with music you love considered too pricey. That's all.


Rev.

 

[Asrial]

...concerts not starting on time but rather after 15-20 minutes, not being able to pause the show when you have to run and take a piss, sticky dirty floor, and shitty projectors?
Slight edit to accomodate concert standards.


I get that you're in Europe, but I think it's kinda silly to use your geographical location to complain about the price of CD's as that isn't how it is everywhere else. I'm sure there are things in your country that would cost me a lot more to get over here.
I can name literally zero items that's cheaper in the EU compared to the US. Yet alone danish taxes is the highest in the entire europe, second place going to Finland.
Then again, 25% of 12 bucks does just not add up to a total of 30 bucks.

I've had many friends in the past pay $50+ for import CD's from Germany or wherever else. In another example my old bandmate from way back used to buy Neo Geo games imported from Japan at $200+ a piece, I can guarantee it didn't cost that much in Japan. Just saying.
Neo geo has been dead for a long time, and even if the console was still in production on the date of game purchase, it's rare a game gets region-exclusive release. Importing region-exclusive titles is indeed costly, and considering the games were cartridges (which is pricey beyond belief), sure those titles can hit the roof in terms of price.
I paid 75$ per N64 title, and I got close to 50...

Also, if you can purchase 2-3 CDs and import them, and still pay less than you would when buying withín the country, there's something gone awry with the pricing scheme.

Rev.

Just sayin'.
And I'm still trying to connect the price-ropes of live showing versus digitally perfect replica at full disposal.
One is an experience, the other is a convenience, let it be music or films. (game programming live is nigh impossible to make a profit of (except if you are Notch ))

 

[linchpin]

Wasn't meaning too, was just pointing to how people pay the money for something like a movie so why is $13 for a CD filled with music you love considered too pricey. That's all.


Rev.

Hasn't that always been the standard price?... doesn't make sense that it's suddenly pricey... and most releases these days have bonus dvds so... sounds fair to me.

 

[Asrial]

I have never ever said 13$ is pricey, quite on the contrary, that's the price I'm willing to pay for a CD. 30$ is what price I'm forced to pay for a bigname CD, and it's THAT which I'm not positive about.

 

[groph]

"Yes, as a fan, I do appreciate free music, because I also have no income, as I am a fan."

/trololololololol

Yeah, I always like it when a band I'm seeing live says, "Our new album is out, buy it, download it, I don't give a fuck" or mentions that it's available for free download. It seems to be a pretty good means of promotion that is a compromise between "pirating to see if the album is worth paying for" and "paying for the album and taking a chance"

 

[regodus]

The money will always get there for the artists. Back when people still bought CD's, you could go see Cannical Corpse at a major venue for about 15$. Now that bands are not making the same money on album sales as they used to, you will pay 30-40$ to see Cannical Corpse most likely at a LIVENATION venue these days. As a fan, I think we will always be paying the same. And as a musician, we'll make a living as well...touring, merch.
A positive to this entire situation is that now bands MUST have a dynamic stage show in order to merit additional show costs in order to compensate for little revenue of music sales (compared to 15 years ago).

 

[Rev2010]

And as a musician, we'll make a living as well...touring, merch.
A positive to this entire situation is that now bands MUST have a dynamic stage show in order to merit additional show costs in order to compensate for little revenue of music sales (compared to 15 years ago).

But that is the problem, why are so many musicians taking a defeatist attitude that the only way we can really make money is through shows and show merch?? Of course that has also been a large bringer of revenue, but the idea that the "only" way we can make money now is by almost literally being "traveling salesmen" is pretty silly. If Lady Gaga can still sell millions of albums it shows that people are still willing to buy the music *itself*. And I'm sure her crap is pirated up the wazoo, but even if she made only $1 per CD sale she'd still be a multi-millionaire.

My first album release has made us around $1600 and that was since it was released around 5 years ago. When we released it I pretty much disbanded the project for reasons I won't get into but the point is I didn't advertise it save for a few forum/group posts. Why pass up on that amount just to give it away for free? It's not much at all, but it's nice to know there are fans willing to buy my music. We are also going to sell the next release. If people want to copy it or download it, so be it. But the option to purchase will always be there for those respectful and appreciative enough to buy it.


Rev.

 

[Sikthness]

As a human being, I appreciate free anything.

 

[Demiurge]

Can't complain with free, but I think that artists should be able decide whether or not their music is free. There's way too much, "the industry's changing, looks like you'll have to give it all away and when you play my town [touring and losing money] maybe I'll buy a shirt and we'll be square, brah"-type noise muddying the picture. Free music is short-term gratification, but when your favorite band sinks their time and money into producing an album and makes nothing from it and is faced with the prospect of touring putting them in more of a hole- guess what, your favorite bands will likely be recording and touring less often.

I think that a model where an artist offers some material for free and a low-priced or "pay what you want" model for digital download and a physical format for sale serves a good portion of the market. If paying means that it keeps my favorite artists in business, I'm all for it.

 

[elrrek]

Not understand as in? it just means as in attend your shows, go see your performances based on them liking your music.

It's not wrong to make art, just the fact that some artists start off with the automatic mentality of "You don't know me, but I made this so you have to pay me to hear it" instead of "hey, would you like to listen to some songs I created? here is a 3 song sampler..." there's many bands in my area that have that mentality.

Just my take on it, I like supporting bands/artists but don't like to support because I'm told I have to.

I'm still not 100% sure I understand what you are saying but thatnks for taking the time to attempt an answer.

If an artist automatically expects someone to spend money on an unheard product now-a-days then I think they must be living in dream land. Very rarely today will I buy something that I have not heard previously, without some sort of "recommendation" which could be words from a friend or their record being on a particular label.

The concept that some people have been discussing here that "art should be free" is also something I disagree with strongly. Assuming that by "free" people are saying "I should be able to get music by other people for nothing" really sickens me, it basically means the artist is being robbed in my opinion.

Realism, in this capatalist society, says that products are exchanged for other products of a similar worth. So, "free art" means art is worth nothing?

 

[fps]

If I haven't paid for music I don't value it. I usually discover music from seeing a band at a show, or finding out about them on the internet. If someone gives me a free CD of their band, well, it's very unlikely I'll listen to it more than once. This probably says more about the random nature of human interaction than anything else, given how many tunes I've listened to on the internet that I've turned off after 30 seconds cos they just aren't doing it for me.

Also, if someone really recommends a band to me I'll probably buy a CD of theirs. I feel hearing some of the product before buying destroys the impact of coming to a piece of art for the first time. Or if I hear some of the band and like it, I'll probably pick up a different CD from the one with that song on.

 

[Fiction]

The experience? Oh you mean the experience of people talking throughout the movie (often on their cellphones), movies not starting on time but rather after 15-20 minutes of advertisements, not being able to pause the movie when you have to run and take a piss, sticky dirty floor, and shitty projectors that project a far less than stellar soft dull image? Nah, I don't bother with that anymore, I either rent or buy the Blu-ray.

Dude, you need to find a new cinema

As a human being, I appreciate free anything.

I for one appreciate free music, I also appreciate paid music. I don't get the "If its free, it sucks" value that some people have said they feel if music is free. If I find out an album is free, I don't go "Hmm.. probably shitty production" I go "Hot damn, a chance to find a new band, FO FREE!"