Axefx 2 owner considering Kemper

[Der JD]

That's just bull.... The Axe can tonematch/profile just as well as the Kemper and Axe-change already has a lot of amps not available in the main unit + a lot of other cool stuff like acoustic and synth presets.
But a good thing about the amps being added by Fractal themselves is quality control. The Kemper might have loads of profiles available, but from my own experience a lot of those are pretty bad. There are some fantastic ones, sure, but it's definately quantity over quality.

Plus, when Fractal converts an amp to an amp sim it gives us as players a lot of helpfull tools/features that can't be replicated via a profile/tonematch:

- You can seperate preamp, poweramp and cabinet to run it the way you want
- You can mod the damn things yourself with the advanced parameters
- You can change tube type
- etc.

Tone is subjective. Which unit sounds the best can be argued to the break of dawn, but in pure features and versatility the Axe-fx wins hands down.

I absolutely won't argue as far as features go. Axe wins. No contest. Anyone needing tons of effects, deep editing, advanced parameters, complicated routing options, etc. possibly would be better with the Axe.

As Quitty mentioned above, however, Axe tonematch isn't even close to Kemper's profiling. I owned an Axe II. Had it for 18 months. I tried a lot of amp tonematches. They're simply not the same thing and can't be compared.

"Quality control"? I guess that depends on how you look at it. Fractal has quality control over the amp models, sure, but does that mean they're perfect at any given moment? No. The Axe is constantly evolving. Nearly every firmware there's "improved modeling", "fixed incorrect values", etc. I applaud Fractal for owning up to past mistakes and making changes to get things right but personally, I don't want things to change. I want it right from the start. That's what I like about the Kemper. The sound of profiles doesn't change from firmware to firmware. Many times I've seen vids or heard clips of the real rig vs. the profile. To my ears, they're often so close I can barely tell the difference. That doesn't change. It sounded like the real rig when it was done and always will.

As far as profile quality...entirely subjective. I've heard very few that I'd consider "bad". The term "bad" IMO would require the profile to have been done in an unprofessional manner, as in the person didn't know jack about how to mic a cab, etc. There are plenty of profiles out there that don't work for me, due to my personal tastes, but might very well work for others.

"Modding" amp models with advanced parameters...sure, that's possible. How realistic it will sound is subjective and personally I don't want to have to tweak like crazy to try to achieve what I'm looking for. If you can take a Marshall model in the Axe, for example, and make it sound like a Mike Fortin mod, my hat's off to you.

I'm not trying make this a pissing contest but I just think there's always more than one way to look at something. Offering different opinions can be valuable to those trying to make a decision for themselves. I really don't care if anyone agrees with me, just that an alternate view has been presented.

 

[Lokasenna]

Plus, when Fractal converts an amp to an amp sim it gives us as players a lot of helpfull tools/features that can't be replicated via a profile/tonematch:

- You can seperate preamp, poweramp and cabinet to run it the way you want
- You can mod the damn things yourself with the advanced parameters
- You can change tube type
- etc.

When someone profiles an amp, depending on how thorough they want to be, they might take a DI profile of just the preamp or head - that's up to them. The Kemper can separate the amp and cabinet fairly accurately for you to mix and match with.

The Kemper has advanced parameters too, just not as many as the AxeFX. Want physically impossible amounts of power sag? Done. Bass getting too muddy from distortion? Clear it up. No sweat.

The AxeFX definitely wins when it comes to tiny, modding-this-capacitor-to-adjust-the-bass-response-of-the-V3-tube adjustments, but most people really don't need those things. Since profiles for the Kemper tend to come in packs, you're getting 10-20 different versions of that amp at different settings and mic positions already, which I'd say goes a long way toward making up the difference in tweakability.

 

[asher]

Personally, I have found I will tweak a ton no matter what. I am not saying I know what I am doing but my ears are never satisfied. This has held through a Spider III, 6505+ 112, Mark III, Mark IV and my Ultra. I do really like knowing that, even if I only use a couple patches every show and not a ton of effects, that they're all there if I need them or another thing comes up. If I were to upgrade it would be to a II, and partially just because it's still getting updates and people are still sharing patches (see note about being bad at tweaking!) I will say that my Ultra pretty much nails my Mark IV.

tl;dr know thyself, know thy needs.

 

[Chris O]

The Kemper's knobs do exactly what a real amp would... they're just stuck at one set of frequencies, whereas each real amp's EQ knobs are specifically set at frequencies that work well for it. I imagine you can set your knobs like that on the AxeFX, and Kemper have said they're looking at something along those lines.

Have you used a real Marshall and then tried a Kemper profile of the same amp? Kemper has a TON more flexibility and ACTUAL EFFECT on the EQ. Real Marshalls...not so much.

I've been playing around with my Kemper all afternoon, and I can say with some authority that the knobs do NOT react in the same way the "real amp" does. The range is HUGE by comparison. They don't interact the same way either -- Mesa Rectos are VERY inter-dependent, where the Kemper model is not. It doesn't know what amp it is profiling.

 

[Mr_Marty]

Have you used a real Marshall and then tried a Kemper profile of the same amp? Kemper has a TON more flexibility and ACTUAL EFFECT on the EQ. Real Marshalls...not so much.

I've been playing around with my Kemper all afternoon, and I can say with some authority that the knobs do NOT react in the same way the "real amp" does. The range is HUGE by comparison. They don't interact the same way either -- Mesa Rectos are VERY inter-dependent, where the Kemper model is not. It doesn't know what amp it is profiling.

This was one of my biggest beefs with the Kemper. The tone controls work nothing like a real amp. The Axe-Fx tone controls are scary accurate, way better than any other modeler I've ever tried.

In the end the raw tone of the Axe-II was just better to my ears. The Kemper has this weird nasally thing in all the the profiles. The Axe sounds more natural and relaxed for lack of a better term.

 

[Lokasenna]

Read what I wrote again. The Kemper's knobs work just like any other EQ knobs, but Marshall's knobs are all set at the frequencies Marshall likes. The Kemper's knobs aren't, so it's not going to sound like the knobs on a Marshall. If and when we get frequency and Q settings for those knobs, I imagine you'll be able to get damn close to the original.

 

[bluediamond]

Well if you find yourself tweaking too much, maybe you should consider using frfr rigs, or trying different pickups.
Chris O totally nails the issue with kemper profiles, in that the eq setting of the amps being profiled, the mic placement, etc. are tweaked with somebody else's preference of ideal tone (and using their guitars and pickups as well).
For example the mesa marks are notorious for sounding really bad with wrong settings, maybe that is why the mark II C+, mark IV profiles on my friend's kemper sounded awful.
Out of hundreds of amps he downloaded I find only three of them to be usable at all, the evh 5153, engl morse, and good ol' jcm800 + tube screamer.

 

[Alex6534]

Well if you find yourself tweaking too much, maybe you should consider using frfr rigs, or trying different pickups.
Chris O totally nails the issue with kemper profiles, in that the eq setting of the amps being profiled, the mic placement, etc. are tweaked with somebody else's preference of ideal tone (and using their guitars and pickups as well).
For example the mesa marks are notorious for sounding really bad with wrong settings, maybe that is why the mark II C+, mark IV profiles on my friend's kemper sounded awful.
Out of hundreds of amps he downloaded I find only three of them to be usable at all, the evh 5153, engl morse, and good ol' jcm800 + tube screamer.

Great thing is new Mark IIC+ profiles are sounding incredible

 

[Defi]

I own an Axe II and I will echo the sentiments about endless tweaking.

A few months ago I just stopped. Decided I was happy with the tones I got for now, and simply pick one of a few patches and play. It has been nice, but now aside from the lovely low volume and the array of effects that I barely use (but it does feel nice to have them when i do)... wait what? I started that off trying to end it saying I want a tube amp instead.

Right, I do. Just need a bigger room.

 

[kmanick]

I've had my axe II for a little over 2 years now and find that ever since we got to Firmware 10, the endless tweaking has come to pass.
with 14.0 I can dial up amazingly good patches in under 2 minutes. all of these new cab IR's that we have at our disposal make it really easy to get what you want.
Now having said that I find myself using maybe 5 amps in total.
I love the fact that I can go FRFR out of output 1 and into a power map-real cab
simultaneously, but this is all 'toys' for me as I'm not gigging.
A local store is getting some Kempers in next week, so I will be all over those checking them out.

 

[Der JD]

A local store is getting some Kempers in next week, so I will be all over those checking them out.

Unfortunately, for those who try out Kempers in stores, you're not going to get a true representation of its total capabilities, at least not for high-gain tones.

IMO, the best profiles are NOT the factory ones. There's some decent stock profiles for sure but the best ones are either commercial or on the free rig exchange.

 

[Neko]

I agree with Der JD.
I don't use factory profiles at all. None of them works for me. But I've found incredible free profiles in Rig Exchange.

 

[PBGas]

This was one of my biggest beefs with the Kemper. The tone controls work nothing like a real amp. The Axe-Fx tone controls are scary accurate, way better than any other modeler I've ever tried.

In the end the raw tone of the Axe-II was just better to my ears. The Kemper has this weird nasally thing in all the the profiles. The Axe sounds more natural and relaxed for lack of a better term.

I find this interesting at best. So...every single profile has a nasally thing going on?

What it shows is lack of knowledge of the product and a not trying or testing it correctly. I'd probably say the same thing of the Axe product if I was to use it.

I think it is fair that one could say the same thing about the Axe stuff if they didn't know how to tweak and use it.

 

[Neko]

I find this interesting at best. So...every single profile has a nasally thing going on?

What it shows is lack of knowledge of the product and a not trying or testing it correctly. I'd probably say the same thing of the Axe product if I was to use it.

I think it is fair that one could say the same thing about the Axe stuff if they didn't know how to tweak and use it.

True! The one can't talk about Kemper sound in general, cause it is very dependent on Profile. If you study youtube, you'll find a lot of A/B comparison of miced amp and Kemper. People in the room see no difference. So it is all about skills of sound engineer to mic amp properly to get a good sound. If you do - Kemper will repeat it.

All this complaining about poor editing abilities of Kemper... Well, guys, you just didn't find out how it works, obviously.
Go to official forum, there are guys who tweak the hell out of Kemper. They take raw profile of MarkII which sounds pretty poor as is, and recreate Petrucci album sound.
It is not just about EQ. It has controls like Tube Bias, Definition, Clarity and very powerful cab parameters. So tweaking is different from AXE.
If you didn't find out how it works it doesn't mean it can't do that.

 

[Quitty]

I find this interesting at best. So...every single profile has a nasally thing going on?

What it shows is lack of knowledge of the product and a not trying or testing it correctly. I'd probably say the same thing of the Axe product if I was to use it.

I think it is fair that one could say the same thing about the Axe stuff if they didn't know how to tweak and use it.

You are correct, but this is not a Kemper debate. OP was asking for opinions from people who have swapped an XFX and haven't looked back, and i don't even think OP is around anymore...

 

[PBGas]

You are correct, but this is not a Kemper debate. OP was asking for opinions from people who have swapped an XFX and haven't looked back, and i don't even think OP is around anymore...

Very true and you are correct. It's not about a debate as both products are great.