They did reply actually, but all they said was to follow their Facebook group for updates. And I refuse to make a Facebook account. So I'm kinda at an impasse.
Badstroke Guitars
- Thread starter mechanyx
- Start date
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tian
Well-Known Member
Yikes.
Is the expected delivery within the window you can do a chargeback? Because if it's not, I'd push them for a more substantive update or otherwise seriously consider your options...
Hollowway
Extended Ranger
I bought it in 2018. I’m not sure what year it was, but maybe 2017?
Wucan
SS.org Regular
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2020
- Messages
- 447
- Reaction score
- 594
They have his money, they blew past their deadline, and they refuse to update on the progress of his guitar. He's being treated like a nuisance, not a customer who's owed a product long past the delivery date. They didn't communicate or make the sale through Facebook, so it makes zero sense to tell him to go there and presumably wait for a social media post. It's horribly unprofessional, and that's the best assumption that can be made - they might also be just buying time and not have a product at all to show.
I would politely but sternly threaten a chargeback, and follow through it if they don't respond in a week.
EDIT: I checked their Facebook page, no updates since December 2021. Instagram, latest post in February 8th. I would be exploring chargeback options right now.
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I would love to look into the chargeback option, but I don't really know where to start. I get that guitars are hard to build (especially during covid), but it's not like it was some super custom guitar, it's just a semi-custom. And barely even that.
They appear to have a facebook "group" for owners and discussion that is administrated by the company. A simple search of "badstroke guitars" on facebook shows a guy posting an update from 2 weeks ago that shows a stack of guitars in process as well as what appears to be his guitar body that was going through finishing.
I agree that their response so far is unprofessional, but being 3 months off of an estimated delivery date isn't that unusual for small and custom builders. Of the 4 customs I've had built, only Mayones delivered close to their estimate which was a 3-month window. Others ranged from 4 months to 1 year beyond original estimate.
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Chri
-________-
@FancyFish you should really consider making a FB profile that you only use for situations like this. You don't need to become an avid social media user, but this could help you bridge the gap.
You know what? I think I'll finally cave. Hopefully it'll clear up some stuff.
Ross82
Well-Known Member
For the record, I have a build in progress with Aviator and can say their communication is good from what I've experienced. Never went more than about 2 weeks without a reply and only nudged them on one which Jan apologized for. To date I've had 13 emails, last one was to pick out the top wood around April 14th. I dont think the two companies are related business wise but maybe the shared a web dev and accounts for the similar look?
Hey guys!
I've been in e-mail communication with Ondrej several times since the middle of last month, and now I've finally paid and placed my order on the fiend line.
Ondrej said it should be ready in about 6 months, but from the looks of this thread, there will be a delay...
I've been in e-mail communication with Ondrej several times since the middle of last month, and now I've finally paid and placed my order on the fiend line.
Ondrej said it should be ready in about 6 months, but from the looks of this thread, there will be a delay...
Thanks for the update. Sorry for the slow response. I've been super busy. I would 100% push back against something like this. If email or phone or whatever was sufficient for their sales channel, it is sufficient for their support channel.
Also, I would strongly advise against using any Facebook owned product/service which includes Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp and Oculus.
Badstroke has posted an update on FB
"
ROADMAP UPDATE #5
Hello guys!! I missed you!!
Let's get the dark out of the way first
I honestly missed being able to talk and hang out with you guys! Unfortunately I had to find more work to be able to stay on Badstroke stuff which leaves me with little to no time overall. This brings me to the darker side of the news that I have to break to you. We are surviving by a thread at this moment and I honestly don't see how else we would even get this far without you - with only 2 pair of hands on deck and over a year without getting paid for the work we do on Fiend Series - now we have really hit the financial bottom of the whole operation. It's been really really crazy yet somehow it just felt right to continue and not let this whole thing go down, because well... who wasn't down sometimes? There will be up again eventually. Yet again, we are still committed to finishing, we are willing to invest our time into this but now this is probably the most down financially we've been in looong years yet here we are, breathing and trying to keep a positive attitude no matter how difficult it is. What I'm trying to tell you is that we have to make compromises if we want to get to a positive outcome with the guitars. It's not something we ever wanted to move to as we value the wishes and configurations for the builds highly but at this point a survival and delivering the baseline of the product must come first. All complaints and refunds can be handled after that rather than never - how are we so sure we would get a chance to even do that? Because we are moving forward with the prosecution and it seems like we might get enough money to get through this but we are in deep negotiations with lawyers and the other side almost on daily basis. We'll keep you informed as we don't want to jinx it at the moment - fingers crossed!
_The_ issue of BKP
Speaking of compromises we are pushed into a corner, we will be refunding all the bkps to their owners by the end of the year when the second instalment from the financial operator is due. It is simply not realistic to uphold this plea, we are of course heavily aware that the prices have gone up but it's just where we are now. All bkp customers will automatically get a free badstroke pickup set installed in their guitar (they are now around 200€) and keep in mind that the cavities for both are compatible. So whenever you are good to go you can swap them up. With this comes a little tiny bit of good news. We proceeded with the technology on the pickups in the last month and we are now able to offer you, bkp supporters, a compensation: you get to choose standard, silver or gold bolts and a magnet a5 or a8 or ceramic (check out in photos).
backup is almost on stock
You may ask how are we going to get out of this? Well we had a little hunch that this might happen so in the background we veeery slowly have taken time to build a few guitars on the side that would help us in a situation like this. So if you see a few builds coming out on socials for sale try not to be alarmed. We are just doing our best to stay on our feet, they are basically a micro batch of on stock pieces with solid color, you may remember the shapes from the illustrations on the campaign. And they are still a WIP atm.
SHIPPING - OPEN CALL FOR HELP
Yet now it is time for us to ask for help from you. We are absolutely determined to deliver here but any hand we can get here is crucial to the mission. Shipping costs are enormous. But only if shipped separately. We can save A LOT by shipping the guitar boxes (2, 3..more) just... taped together. Sounds crazy but that's how it is. So now we kindly ask you to reach out to us (DMs or badstrokeguitars@gmail.com) if you know someone who also ordered a build from the run and wouldn't mind if we sent it to the same address. Alternatively you can post a name of the city or country you are from in the comments here and perhaps find someone from the community here who lives nearby. This is a lot of hustle, we get it, and we'll send those with priority so in return you'll get your piece sooner! Some of the bigger cities got an option for pickup spots but some of you guys kinda got to know each other here and it felt like a good opportunity to try this out and take advantage of this opportunity. If none of this works for you, no problem. We'll get to you eventually.
Reminder of what is this group about?
Seeing some of the posts here is really heartwarming, even the critics we get are something that is very often spot on and we take them to heart but what's really cool is the music you guys share and the discussions you engage in. Initially this group wasn't about this at all but now it only makes sense that we share some of the reasons why we are all in passion of making music one way or another, together. Please keep sharing your work, what you love, discuss designs for your cover arts, collab and have fun doing it.
Progression
NOW let's get to the good part which is the progression! We spent a looot of our time on electronics and tons on pickups and wirings this month!
Raw CNC body
COMPLETE
Raw CNC neck -COMPLETE
Raw CNC fretboard - 🛠 currently 90% 🛠
Body sanding (including cavities etc.) - 🛠 currently 95% 🛠
Full neck sanding - 🛠 currently 85% 🛠
Body stain / finish - 🛠 currently 80% 🛠
Fretting stage 1 preparation - 🛠 currently 60% 🛠
Fretting stage 2 finish - 🛠 35% 🛠
Complete assembly - 🛠 50% 🛠
Electronics / Pickups assembly - 🛠 30% 🛠
Wiring - 🛠 30 % 🛠
Builds Tried out - 4
Builds complete - 4
Builds Shipped -
What you'll see in the photos? (who am I kidding - you went for them first, didn't you?)
Photos! Hell yeah! As we mentioned before, the poplar tops will be getting a pickguard on the side so you can eventually decide to put it on if you like. Here you can see how that would look like but you'll have all the time you want to make that final decision. You asked for details so we are bringing details, let us know what you think! We are ultra happy how they are coming together! As well as all the pots, switches and pickups. One of our personal favourites from this photoshoot is the flame mapled neck, we were able to get an insane quality wood for all the pieces but this one still stands out.
Additionally we would like to ask for patience when it comes to communication from our side, seeing as I'm not a full time guy here now and there is nobody else to take care of you other than Ondřej whose time is with all honesty best spent directly on guitars it may take some time before I get to answer your questions and comments. Make no mistake, this is still a very big part of my life and I'm looking forward to Badstroke getting back in the field in full sound! Now I'll leave you guys process all the information, ask questions and enjoy the photos
love,
Andy & Badstroke Team"
"
ROADMAP UPDATE #5
Hello guys!! I missed you!!
Let's get the dark out of the way first
I honestly missed being able to talk and hang out with you guys! Unfortunately I had to find more work to be able to stay on Badstroke stuff which leaves me with little to no time overall. This brings me to the darker side of the news that I have to break to you. We are surviving by a thread at this moment and I honestly don't see how else we would even get this far without you - with only 2 pair of hands on deck and over a year without getting paid for the work we do on Fiend Series - now we have really hit the financial bottom of the whole operation. It's been really really crazy yet somehow it just felt right to continue and not let this whole thing go down, because well... who wasn't down sometimes? There will be up again eventually. Yet again, we are still committed to finishing, we are willing to invest our time into this but now this is probably the most down financially we've been in looong years yet here we are, breathing and trying to keep a positive attitude no matter how difficult it is. What I'm trying to tell you is that we have to make compromises if we want to get to a positive outcome with the guitars. It's not something we ever wanted to move to as we value the wishes and configurations for the builds highly but at this point a survival and delivering the baseline of the product must come first. All complaints and refunds can be handled after that rather than never - how are we so sure we would get a chance to even do that? Because we are moving forward with the prosecution and it seems like we might get enough money to get through this but we are in deep negotiations with lawyers and the other side almost on daily basis. We'll keep you informed as we don't want to jinx it at the moment - fingers crossed!
_The_ issue of BKP
Speaking of compromises we are pushed into a corner, we will be refunding all the bkps to their owners by the end of the year when the second instalment from the financial operator is due. It is simply not realistic to uphold this plea, we are of course heavily aware that the prices have gone up but it's just where we are now. All bkp customers will automatically get a free badstroke pickup set installed in their guitar (they are now around 200€) and keep in mind that the cavities for both are compatible. So whenever you are good to go you can swap them up. With this comes a little tiny bit of good news. We proceeded with the technology on the pickups in the last month and we are now able to offer you, bkp supporters, a compensation: you get to choose standard, silver or gold bolts and a magnet a5 or a8 or ceramic (check out in photos).
backup is almost on stock
You may ask how are we going to get out of this? Well we had a little hunch that this might happen so in the background we veeery slowly have taken time to build a few guitars on the side that would help us in a situation like this. So if you see a few builds coming out on socials for sale try not to be alarmed. We are just doing our best to stay on our feet, they are basically a micro batch of on stock pieces with solid color, you may remember the shapes from the illustrations on the campaign. And they are still a WIP atm.
SHIPPING - OPEN CALL FOR HELP
Yet now it is time for us to ask for help from you. We are absolutely determined to deliver here but any hand we can get here is crucial to the mission. Shipping costs are enormous. But only if shipped separately. We can save A LOT by shipping the guitar boxes (2, 3..more) just... taped together. Sounds crazy but that's how it is. So now we kindly ask you to reach out to us (DMs or badstrokeguitars@gmail.com) if you know someone who also ordered a build from the run and wouldn't mind if we sent it to the same address. Alternatively you can post a name of the city or country you are from in the comments here and perhaps find someone from the community here who lives nearby. This is a lot of hustle, we get it, and we'll send those with priority so in return you'll get your piece sooner! Some of the bigger cities got an option for pickup spots but some of you guys kinda got to know each other here and it felt like a good opportunity to try this out and take advantage of this opportunity. If none of this works for you, no problem. We'll get to you eventually.
Reminder of what is this group about?
Seeing some of the posts here is really heartwarming, even the critics we get are something that is very often spot on and we take them to heart but what's really cool is the music you guys share and the discussions you engage in. Initially this group wasn't about this at all but now it only makes sense that we share some of the reasons why we are all in passion of making music one way or another, together. Please keep sharing your work, what you love, discuss designs for your cover arts, collab and have fun doing it.
Progression
NOW let's get to the good part which is the progression! We spent a looot of our time on electronics and tons on pickups and wirings this month!
Raw CNC body
COMPLETERaw CNC neck -
COMPLETERaw CNC fretboard - 🛠 currently 90% 🛠
Body sanding (including cavities etc.) - 🛠 currently 95% 🛠
Full neck sanding - 🛠 currently 85% 🛠
Body stain / finish - 🛠 currently 80% 🛠
Fretting stage 1 preparation - 🛠 currently 60% 🛠
Fretting stage 2 finish - 🛠 35% 🛠
Complete assembly - 🛠 50% 🛠
Electronics / Pickups assembly - 🛠 30% 🛠
Wiring - 🛠 30 % 🛠
Builds Tried out - 4
Builds complete - 4
Builds Shipped -
What you'll see in the photos? (who am I kidding - you went for them first, didn't you?)
Photos! Hell yeah! As we mentioned before, the poplar tops will be getting a pickguard on the side so you can eventually decide to put it on if you like. Here you can see how that would look like but you'll have all the time you want to make that final decision. You asked for details so we are bringing details, let us know what you think! We are ultra happy how they are coming together! As well as all the pots, switches and pickups. One of our personal favourites from this photoshoot is the flame mapled neck, we were able to get an insane quality wood for all the pieces but this one still stands out.
Additionally we would like to ask for patience when it comes to communication from our side, seeing as I'm not a full time guy here now and there is nobody else to take care of you other than Ondřej whose time is with all honesty best spent directly on guitars it may take some time before I get to answer your questions and comments. Make no mistake, this is still a very big part of my life and I'm looking forward to Badstroke getting back in the field in full sound! Now I'll leave you guys process all the information, ask questions and enjoy the photos
love,
Andy & Badstroke Team"
tian
Well-Known Member
Vague descriptions of ongoing litigation, pickup sourcing issues, the decision to build "extra" guitars to somehow help guitars already on order, shipping excuses... this is the laundry list we've seen over and over from builders that never end up delivering anything close to what was promised, if at all.
I have no dog in this fight but the feeling of deja vu is overwhelming.
I have no dog in this fight but the feeling of deja vu is overwhelming.
Nah. Hard nah on this company.
Jonathan20022
Engineer
The sad part is that the guitar community is so depraved of good customer service, that they will probably think this is a good sign that they're getting so much BtS and communication all in one post.
The transparency of litigation and problems appearing financially is definitely a good step, but people should take that as a hard red flag and pull back in whatever capacity possible ASAP.
The transparency of litigation and problems appearing financially is definitely a good step, but people should take that as a hard red flag and pull back in whatever capacity possible ASAP.
Wucan
SS.org Regular
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2020
- Messages
- 447
- Reaction score
- 594
Welp, I knew the situation stunk :/
Asking buyers to work together so they can tape guitar boxes together? Saying they're so bad financially they're in litigation, but prioritizing side orders? Complaining about not getting paid for work, but happily taking full payment for incomplete work?
These guys have no idea how to manage money or workload, and have effectively said people who already paid are their lowest priority. And from a company that's currently in legal and financial trouble... that bodes very poorly when it comes to getting what you paid for.
Asking buyers to work together so they can tape guitar boxes together? Saying they're so bad financially they're in litigation, but prioritizing side orders? Complaining about not getting paid for work, but happily taking full payment for incomplete work?
These guys have no idea how to manage money or workload, and have effectively said people who already paid are their lowest priority. And from a company that's currently in legal and financial trouble... that bodes very poorly when it comes to getting what you paid for.
aWoodenShip
Well-Known Member
You could say they've had a... badstroke of luck
Ben Pinkus
Well-Known Member
This is a shame as their previous custom/semi custom models as well as the batched series did look really cool!
I did think that when they released the batch series there were a tonnne of options still at a super low price, so was always interested to see how those came out.
Fingers crossed everyone gets the guitar they ordered and are happy with them, and badstroke get back on their feet soon
I did think that when they released the batch series there were a tonnne of options still at a super low price, so was always interested to see how those came out.
Fingers crossed everyone gets the guitar they ordered and are happy with them, and badstroke get back on their feet soon
olejason
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2007
- Messages
- 775
- Reaction score
- 489
Wow what a sham, I feel really bad for anyone with money tied up with these guys. They would have been much better off to just fund the guitars themselves and then put them up for sale but I guess it's too much to ask business owners to assume risk these days.
Sorry for being late to my own thread. I haven't logged into the board for over a week.
First off, thanks @Thesius for posting this update.
I'm very confused by this wall of text though. What is the legal situation? When he write "Because we are moving forward with the prosecution" it was so out of nowhere I assumed they meant something else like "production" and it was just a translation mistake but then says "we are in deep negotiations with lawyers and the other side almost on daily basis" so I guess it really is a legal thing. Maybe my reading comprehension is just very bad but what is this about? People suing for refunds or is there context from another post that I missed?
All around, not good signs. Seems like a lot of people who get into guitar building have more of the required guitar building skills than they do the planning, logistics, budgeting and business operation skills.
It's doubly unfortunate because the accepted/default business model seems to be to shift a great deal of the risk onto the customers by getting money up front. In pretty much any other manufacturing business (pre-Kickstarter which don't get me started on those stats), you have to get investors to bring a product to market and hope it sells.
First off, thanks @Thesius for posting this update.
I'm very confused by this wall of text though. What is the legal situation? When he write "Because we are moving forward with the prosecution" it was so out of nowhere I assumed they meant something else like "production" and it was just a translation mistake but then says "we are in deep negotiations with lawyers and the other side almost on daily basis" so I guess it really is a legal thing. Maybe my reading comprehension is just very bad but what is this about? People suing for refunds or is there context from another post that I missed?
All around, not good signs. Seems like a lot of people who get into guitar building have more of the required guitar building skills than they do the planning, logistics, budgeting and business operation skills.
It's doubly unfortunate because the accepted/default business model seems to be to shift a great deal of the risk onto the customers by getting money up front. In pretty much any other manufacturing business (pre-Kickstarter which don't get me started on those stats), you have to get investors to bring a product to market and hope it sells.
