Bands not open to you using an ERG

[Nag]

as long as you can play what you're supposed to play, and you can make it sound the ay it's supposed to sound, nobody should give a damn what guitar you're using. I can't hear out how many strings an unknown recording was made with, it doesn't matter.

 

[xCaptainx]

Excuse me for saying this but I think it's a bit narrow-minded. Bringing an 8-string does not mean he's chugging the 7th or 8th string all the time. He might not play on those strings at all during the set. It's only becoming a problem if he's using notes/pitches the rest of the band can't play.

Different guitars sound and feel different. If someone likes a guitar why should anyone have a problem with it? Why do you have to worry about amp settings? Why do you have to worry about pedals or buying an 8 string yourself?

Of course it's narrow minded, because we have a narrow, specific sound and any deviation from that could create a logistic nightmare.

I'd be just as upset if the drummer bought a huge rack system and wanted to travel with that.

If our other guitarist bought an 8 string and started writing with it, I would have to as well. It would be pointless expanding the range of one guitarist and not the other.

But then, we've just doubled the amount of guitars we need to travel with, or figure out how on earth to play everything on an eight string guitar.

Doing this without any consideration to the band, as a whole, would be frustrating.

Deftones tour with SIXTEEN guitars because of all the tunings they use, plus backups for each.

 

[lucasreis]

Of course it's narrow minded, because we have a narrow, specific sound and any deviation from that could create a logistic nightmare.

I'd be just as upset if the drummer bought a huge rack system and wanted to travel with that.

If our other guitarist bought an 8 string and started writing with it, I would have to as well. It would be pointless expanding the range of one guitarist and not the other.

But then, we've just doubled the amount of guitars we need to travel with, or figure out how on earth to play everything on an eight string guitar.

Doing this without any consideration to the band, as a whole, would be frustrating.

Deftones tour with SIXTEEN guitars because of all the tunings they use, plus backups for each.

Stef loves to show off his guitars. Half of the tunings could be adapted or played in way less guitars. His stuff in E could be played in his 8 string but he like to have a seven string tuned like a six string. The stuff from Around the Fur and Self Titled could be played in the same guitar (one is Ab and the other is C#, they compliment each other) but he chose to have different guitars as well. There are a lot of shortcuts that he could use and adapt, but he chose not to.

Also, nowadays, we have guitars like Line 6 Variax. Twelve Foot Ninja uses almost as many tunings as Deftones but using only one guitar, because it's possible to tune it electronically.

 

[bostjan]

Of course it's narrow minded, because we have a narrow, specific sound and any deviation from that could create a logistic nightmare.

I'd be just as upset if the drummer bought a huge rack system and wanted to travel with that.

If our other guitarist bought an 8 string and started writing with it, I would have to as well. It would be pointless expanding the range of one guitarist and not the other.

But then, we've just doubled the amount of guitars we need to travel with, or figure out how on earth to play everything on an eight string guitar.

Doing this without any consideration to the band, as a whole, would be frustrating.

Deftones tour with SIXTEEN guitars because of all the tunings they use, plus backups for each.

To each his own, of course, but I just can't agree with your logic.

1. If the drummer wants a huge rack, let him deal with it. There's no viable reason why you should give two s
2. Why would it be pointless to extend the range of one instrument? There is no reason I can readily see for that statement. Besides, there are plenty of bands that incorporate two guitarists with different numbers of strings.
3. If you want to expand your range, that's your decision. If you want to drag around sixteen guitars, that'd be your problem.
4. It's not my band, so you can enforce whatever rules you want, but if you tried to lay down any such law in my band, we would not be in the same band anymore. Your parts are your concern, and your bandmate's parts are your concern if they sound bad or throw you off. How many strings they have on their neck may have an indirect effect on that, but only if your bandmate is unable to play his parts properly. Depending on how you were to approach such a hypothetical dilemma, you might come off as a jerk.

 

[bhakan]

To each his own, of course, but I just can't agree with your logic.

1. If the drummer wants a huge rack, let him deal with it. There's no viable reason why you should give two s
2. Why would it be pointless to extend the range of one instrument? There is no reason I can readily see for that statement. Besides, there are plenty of bands that incorporate two guitarists with different numbers of strings.
3. If you want to expand your range, that's your decision. If you want to drag around sixteen guitars, that'd be your problem.
4. It's not my band, so you can enforce whatever rules you want, but if you tried to lay down any such law in my band, we would not be in the same band anymore. Your parts are your concern, and your bandmate's parts are your concern if they sound bad or throw you off. How many strings they have on their neck may have an indirect effect on that, but only if your bandmate is unable to play his parts properly. Depending on how you were to approach such a hypothetical dilemma, you might come off as a jerk.

Just to continue playing devil's advocate, I think the number of guitars, size of drum kit etc. for a small touring band is kind of everybody's business. Assuming they're probably touring out of van, space is a concern for everybody. If the drummer got a huge kit and the guitarists brought 16 guitars, they'd have to get a bigger vehicle upping tour costs for everybody. Also, I think saying each member should only be concerned with their own parts seems kind of strange to me. In a band you're all working together to make music, it just seems strange to say everybody should be only concerned with their own parts. All my bands have been a very collaborative effort and I think they're better that way, at least for me. All your points make sense in some scenarios but there are definitely circumstances where they don't.

 

[xCaptainx]

Just to continue playing devil's advocate, I think the number of guitars, size of drum kit etc. for a small touring band is kind of everybody's business. Assuming they're probably touring out of van, space is a concern for everybody. If the drummer got a huge kit and the guitarists brought 16 guitars, they'd have to get a bigger vehicle upping tour costs for everybody. Also, I think saying each member should only be concerned with their own parts seems kind of strange to me. In a band you're all working together to make music, it just seems strange to say everybody should be only concerned with their own parts. All my bands have been a very collaborative effort and I think they're better that way, at least for me. All your points make sense in some scenarios but there are definitely circumstances where they don't.

Yup, what this guy said.

Van space. Trailer space. Gas. Overweight luggage fees, not being able to lay down on a van seat bench because old mate drummer just had to bring that bloody rack system. Having to cart around ANOTHER guitar simply because someone wrote one song and we HAVE to play it live.

It's a logistical nightmare for a small, touring band.

 

[xCaptainx]

I had a promoter telling me once that he booked a tour where a band were sharing vans and trailers, and he enforced a 'guitar amp heads only' policy with everyone, as backline cabs were to be hired.

Old 'first tour' guitarist in one of the bands turned up to the initial load in with a 16u Flight case system for his head and rack system, which was ridiculous.

12 dudes, 12 seater van, small trailer. It SUCKS when you're personal comfort is destroyed because of needless equipment.

 

[Dayn]

I've never encountered that before and I've only been in one band where I played only six strings. I did have an experience where I was told to get a four string bass, because six string bass meant that I wouldn't be able to hold down a groove, but I pushed back and was hired by the band.

Do you know how the hell they arrived at that conclusion? I'm really curious how that's even possible.

 

[Jonathan20022]

My best friend played in a pop-indie rock band with an RG7321 with a pair of Ionizers. He was the odd man out instrument wise but he brought so much to the instrumentation of their regular songs. His band mates didn't give a ...., he's a great guitarist and the guitar makes sound in the tuning they play. What else matters?

 

[angl2k]

Of course it's narrow minded, because we have a narrow, specific sound and any deviation from that could create a logistic nightmare.

I'd be just as upset if the drummer bought a huge rack system and wanted to travel with that.

If our other guitarist bought an 8 string and started writing with it, I would have to as well. It would be pointless expanding the range of one guitarist and not the other.

But then, we've just doubled the amount of guitars we need to travel with, or figure out how on earth to play everything on an eight string guitar.

Doing this without any consideration to the band, as a whole, would be frustrating.

Deftones tour with SIXTEEN guitars because of all the tunings they use, plus backups for each.

Well I can understand why logistics could pose a problem but that's not what OP said - he basically said that he got some flak for bringing his 7 instead of his LP.

I had a promoter telling me once that he booked a tour where a band were sharing vans and trailers, and he enforced a 'guitar amp heads only' policy with everyone, as backline cabs were to be hired.

Old 'first tour' guitarist in one of the bands turned up to the initial load in with a 16u Flight case system for his head and rack system, which was ridiculous.

12 dudes, 12 seater van, small trailer. It SUCKS when you're personal comfort is destroyed because of needless equipment.

Wow, did the guitarist bring his entire home studio or something

 

[7JxN7]

I can't say number of strings has ever been an issue for me........ in my current band (joined 4 years ago), I converted them to play 7's after they had been playing 6's for a while before me. I showed them the benefits, they liked it, the rest is history........

However the concept of 8 strings has now been mentioned more than a couple of times.........

I may have helped create a monster here actually.....

This is why my bank account hates me.........

 

[bostjan]

Just to continue playing devil's advocate, I think the number of guitars, size of drum kit etc. for a small touring band is kind of everybody's business. Assuming they're probably touring out of van, space is a concern for everybody. If the drummer got a huge kit and the guitarists brought 16 guitars, they'd have to get a bigger vehicle upping tour costs for everybody. Also, I think saying each member should only be concerned with their own parts seems kind of strange to me. In a band you're all working together to make music, it just seems strange to say everybody should be only concerned with their own parts. All my bands have been a very collaborative effort and I think they're better that way, at least for me. All your points make sense in some scenarios but there are definitely circumstances where they don't.

Exactly, if the band is a collaborative effort, you gotta let people write their own parts their own way. If you dictate what everyone else is playing, that is the opposite of collaborative.

As far as van space, I see what you are saying, but it's all about what's appropriate for the band. If the drummer has a huge rack, then you'll need a bigger van. To your point, though, if the drummer shows up to practice and to your first several local gigs with a four piece set with three cymbals, then you pick him up in the tour van and he suddenly has a huge rack system, then that's absolutely inconsiderate, but if the drummer has a huge rack system all along and you try to tell him that he can't bring it, because the only tour van you could afford to rent was a VW bus and there won't be room for his rack system and everybody else's stuff, then your just being a jerk at that point.

Let's put together a realistic, yet hypothetical, situation harkening back to the OP:

Your band plays folk rock alternative, like, the Violent Femmes, and your guitar player, who played a Martin 000 acoustic, moves to Florida to become a fisherman. You place an ad and find three guys to try out. Candidate number one shows up with black leather drover coat, has 31 facial piercings and plays a 7 string BC Rich Beast. Do you try him out or do you shoot him down right away? If you shoot him down right away, do you tell him it's because of the seven string guitar? Candidate number two shows up, looking pretty average, and unpacks an Ibanez RG7. Do you shoot him down right away or try him out? If you shoot him down right away, do you tell him it's because of the seven string guitar? Candidate number three shows up, looking like a hippy, and unpacks his Agilent Renaissance 7 acoustic. Do you try him out or shoot him down right away? If you shoot him down right away, do you tell him it's because of the seven string guitar?

Ideal, in my opinion, you ought to be professional about it. Try each dude out, as arranged, and be open that you are trying out two other dudes and will call him back. If the dude's style doesn't fit what you are going for as a band, be professional about it. Call him up, say thanks for your interest but we're not interested in collaborating at this point. Not only are things smoother that way, but a lot neater, too.

I know the real world does not work this way, but, honestly, if a band shot down any of those three hypothetical musicians and cited the seven string guitar as a problem, then I just don't think you have a good enough attitude to make it in the industry, where you will run into a lot of people who will gladly stand in your way if they think you're a butthead.

 

[tedtan]

^

In your hypothetical example, did you let the people auditioning know that you were looking for a replacement for your acoustic player that recently left and that they would need to play an acoustic, too, or was that left out?

I wouldn't be happy with someone coming in to replace an acoustic guitarist who showed up with a damn accordion, banjo or tuba, especially if I specified that I was looking for another acoustic guitar player. And I don't think I'd be much happier with someone who showed up with an electric after that specification, either.

 

[bostjan]

^

In your hypothetical example, did you let the people auditioning know that you were looking for a replacement for your acoustic player that recently left and that they would need to play an acoustic, too, or was that left out?

I wouldn't be happy with someone coming in to replace an acoustic guitarist who showed up with a damn accordion, banjo or tuba, especially if I specified that I was looking for another acoustic guitar player. And I don't think I'd be much happier with someone who showed up with an electric after that specification, either.

No, just a guitarist. You are; however, avoiding my point entirely.

 

[tedtan]

No avoidance here.

If I were looking for a replacement for that type of band, where the bass player plays an acoustic bass and the former guitar player played an acoustic guitar, I would specify that I was looking for an acoustic guitar player up front. If I specified that and people showed up with electric guitars, e.g., the wrong instrument (not the wrong color/look/number of strings, but a fundamentally different instrument), I may well not allow them to audition; it would depend on my mood at the time. It's an audition after all - they're there to play the specified songs in an effort to get the gig, not to try to convince me to rearrange my songs for new instrumentation.

If I failed to specify that I was looking for an acoustic guitar player up front, then I would either A) be more open to rearranging the material, or B) would have to offer the audition anyway as it was my fault for failing to clarify what I was looking for in a replacement guitarist before those auditionees showed up to audition.

As for disqualifying potential auditionees based on superficial characteristics like their looks or the instrument they play, that would be less applicable in a folk/punk band like in your example than it would in say a bluegrass band - a bluegrass band wherein the guitar player plays a Beast or an RG7 won't get booked much, if at all, as that audience is very conservative. You can't even play an acoustic-electric with a pickup in many bluegrass gigs, it has to be straight acoustic (no pickup).

Likewise, a tribute band that dresses up to look like the original band who's songs they cover (e.g., the Iron Maidens) would have a legitimate reason to be concerned with the specific guitar their guitarist(s) play. Someone impersonating Angus Young in an ACDC tribute band would need to play a maroon SG, for example. Someone wanting to play Slash in a GNR tribute band would need to play a (likely yellow) Les Paul.

So while I would say that it is generally bad advice (and poor form) to preclude someone from joining a band based on superficial criteria, there are specific cases where those same criteria are not so superficial. As always, context matters.

 

[angl2k]

^

In your hypothetical example, did you let the people auditioning know that you were looking for a replacement for your acoustic player that recently left and that they would need to play an acoustic, too, or was that left out?

I wouldn't be happy with someone coming in to replace an acoustic guitarist who showed up with a damn accordion, banjo or tuba, especially if I specified that I was looking for another acoustic guitar player. And I don't think I'd be much happier with someone who showed up with an electric after that specification, either.

How is this even relevant? OP wasn't showing up with his tuba when the band was auditioning for violinist.

So basically you're saying that if your band was auditioning for an accordeonist and you turned down someone because his accordeon had 4 extra keys on it.

 

[IChuckFinleyI]

If anyone tries to pigeon hold ERGs to only metal, make them listen to Little Tybee and Charlie Hunter. Seriously, there was even a 7 string acoustic at the beginning of the "Cross Roads" movie with Ralph Maccio... Machio... the "Karate Kid" and Steve Vai. That movie.

 

[tedtan]

How is this even relevant? OP wasn't showing up with his tuba when the band was auditioning for violinist.

So basically you're saying that if your band was auditioning for an accordeonist and you turned down someone because his accordeon had 4 extra keys on it.

No, my response was clearly to the hypothetical question posed by bosjan. And I also made it clear that passing over someone based on superficial criteria like the number of strings is generally to be avoided, but may sometimes be relevant.

Please pay attention next time so you may avoid opening your mouth and inserting your foot.

 

[bostjan]

I guess on a forum devoted to ERG, this topic is bound to take a biased turn eventually.

I had not thought of tribute bands, but then again, I don't have any interest in tribute bands, nor do I understand the appeal of them. If I went someplace and a Led Zeppelin tribute band was playing and the guitarist weighed any more than 46 kg and played anything but a doubleneck Gibson with a banjo string for a high e, I would promptly leave. If the lead singer doesn't have long flowing blonde locks blowing in slow motion from a hidden fan on the stage, then you might as well demand the band be fired and blacklisted. And if there isn't red snapper back stage...

I guess my hyperbole is supposed to evoke through satire the fact that every individual should develop his or her own persona and that this persona represents you as a musician. If a fellow's persona, as a package deal, doesn't fit what your band is looking for, then don't hire that fellow. But FFS don't nitpick over how many strings or how many sharp points are on somebody's guitar. Either there's chemistry or not at the audition. Same goes for hiring a new employee or a nanny for your kid. Same goes for dating. Date someone you like, don't think of it as a project.

 

[tedtan]

I agree with what you're saying for the most part. The intent of my earlier post was merely to point out that there are situations where what ordinarily would be viewed as nit picking over the superficial is actually a relevant criteria upon which people make decisions. And those situations tend to be professional bands where the amount of money earned is a key factor, not artists pursuing their own art like most of us here.

In other words, the world is not either black or white, but usually one of the many, many shades of gray in between.