Bands not open to you using an ERG

[DeadPool2099]

Thanks for all the replies, basically I have noticed that in the past when I have shown people the 7-string. When I'd come to jam with people, most of the time there was no problem. I could just jam and we'd have fun.

Yet back in college when I tried to join different bands with people that had similar interests in Rock music. There were times I ran into different situations. People simply didn't want me to bring the 7-string. In retrospect those people didn't really know how to play guitar that well. Most of them didn't know music theory we would end up playing basic rock stuff on a 6-string.They really would think that me having a 7-string complicated things. They didn't know we could do different stuff in the key of B.

When I have played Metal I pretty much just do recordings. There isn't really a metal scene in the city I live. Denver has a pretty big metal scene. Boulder, not really, its more Bluegrass, Blues, Jazz, Reggae, Rock, underground Hip-Hop. I was in a few metal bands in high school. But have mainly found work playing bass in a reggae/rock band. And playing the occasional Native American Flute gig.

 

[bostjan]

Thanks for all the replies, basically I have noticed that in the past when I have shown people the 7-string. When I'd come to jam with people, most of the time there was no problem. I could just jam and we'd have fun.

Yet back in college when I tried to join different bands with people that had similar interests in Rock music. There were times I ran into different situations. People simply didn't want me to bring the 7-string. In retrospect those people didn't really know how to play guitar that well. Most of them didn't know music theory we would end up playing basic rock stuff on a 6-string.They really would think that me having a 7-string complicated things. They didn't know we could do different stuff in the key of B.

When I have played Metal I pretty much just do recordings. There isn't really a metal scene in the city I live. Denver has a pretty big metal scene. Boulder, not really, its more Bluegrass, Blues, Jazz, Reggae, Rock, underground Hip-Hop. I was in a few metal bands in high school. But have mainly found work playing bass in a reggae/rock band. And playing the occasional Native American Flute gig.

Cool. It sounds like we would get along great musically.

Here in the backwoods of New England, there is a very hard-to-find metal scene, or ripples from a metal scene that started and nearly died out several times over the past few decades. I haven't really been lucky enough to jam with many local metal guys, but on a broader perspective, I've jammed with rock guys, who generally are receptive to the instruments I use. I've jammed with a few bluegrass people who varied a lot more in personality. I'd say that you'll run into a few jerks everywhere you go, but the worst experiences I've had trying to jam with people were the so-called "folk" musicians. Not saying all of them, or even a majority of them are this way, because some of the ones with whom I've crossed paths were super friendly and professional, but, this demographic of jerkwad folk musicians around here, refuse to tune their guitars, get arrogant and defensive at the mention of anything they see as "music theory," (e.g. "this song is in the key of..." "I'll stop you right there, I never had time for fancy music lessons, I just play what sounds good," then proceeds to play tons of dissonant chords whilst searching for the key of the song), and actually are not particularly receptive to the idea of jamming or collaborative music in general ("I usually play alone, because only I know what the music should correctly sound like."). It's frustrating for me when this type of musician suggests that they'd like to jam one time, then these sorts of things happen.

But it's all just in dealing with people in general. As I said, there are some really cool local folk musicians with whom I've jammed - on eight string guitar, or whatever, and had a blast.

The law of averages applies. The more you branch out, the more you'll run into cool people. Also, the more you'll run into uncool people. If you nurture the good and excise the bad, you can grow something.

 

[InfinityCollision]

If our other guitarist bought an 8 string and started writing with it, I would have to as well. It would be pointless expanding the range of one guitarist and not the other.

wat

 

[TedEH]

I've got a band where one guy showed up with an 8 string a while back, and has been using it since. Even incorporated it into a song or two. The rest of us are using a 7 string and a 5 string bass, both in standard/B. The band hasn't fallen apart, and nobody has needed to replace their instrument to "keep up" or anything like that. I actually did the opposite, went from a 6 string bass back to a 5.

 

[Winspear]

wat

Yeah I just had a read of this thread and there are quite a few comments implying that If a bandmate writes a song in X tuning on his guitar with X strings, how about writing a part on your guitar in Y tuning with Y strings rather than having to buy a guitar to copy his and sound less interesting? Hell recently I've been writing for 2 6 strings tuned more than an octave apart!

 

[xCaptainx]

I think the context you're missing is my band.

I play in a metalcore band (Saving Grace) We're not big by any means, but we have touring experience and are extremely fortunate to be signed to an awesome label (Facedown Records)

My comments would be akin to a band like The Acacia Strain using an 8 string and a 6 string in completely different tunings. It just wouldn't work.

We're primarily a rhythm only band, with small scattering of leads. Most of our 'separate' riffs are call and response style intros/outros for breakdowns.

Everything in our setlist is Drop C#.

If old mate 2nd guitarist and primary songwriter suddenly came to practice with a song he had written that involves open string breakdowns in F#, what on earth am I supposed to do?

One guitar doing that stuff with me writing some stupid 3 note 'melody' dripping in reverb and delay? We have a complete set with two rhythm guitars, and then all of a sudden our wall of sound is changed completely because I can't match his playing?

We have a set sound, we have a set tuning, we have been doing that for over ten years. Yes, I would be pissed if someone in our band suddenly decided to bring an instrument that required a drastic change to gear, tuning, song writing and tour logistics.

It's not even the fact that it's an 8 string. Again, we're in Drop C#. Heck, we faced a similar issue when we wrote a song using a pitch shift/whammy effect. It was a great idea in the studio and then we both bought pitch shift pedals in order to play it live. Not a huge investment, but still the same logistics involved (pedal space, pedalboard weight, investment in gear, likelihood of song being in setlist etc)

 

[Low Baller]

Well a lot of people are unfamiliar with ERG and it is associated with metal these days. I can understand if they don't want low riffs and in theory if you're not using the low F# and B what's the big deal but it could be image too. I also use my 8 for jazz and many other genres but when you're dipping into bass range it's not for everyone. Face it guys we are niche musicians and difficult we want people to accept our ERG ways but we damn well know if everyone one and their grandma was slinging an eight we would all complain saying they just do it to be cool we played ERGs before it was cool.

Ok now as a bass player who has played 5s for twelve years I will clear up the double standard of basses being accepted with 5-6 strings. People tend to not mind fives and sixes because the bass stays in its range and doesn't step into guitarists range. ERG guitars where made for the purpose of emulating bass lines for jazz guitarist. Six string basses where actually made for bass players sight reading so they could read but stay in a box position and not have to look down at the neck which is why a six string bass is tuned generically with a high C instead of a B. Fives similar origin but one big thing for them was the availability to walk to lower frequencies, adding passing tones to the low E, and also stay in a box position.

Personally as a bass player of someone showed up with an 8 I wouldn't care (as a guitarist I would be pumped no ERG people in my area). However I would draw the line if they asked me to tune down to F# I have no problem transposing but I do setting up my bass for that tuning. I only have one bass and face it most my gigs and oppurtunity a will be standard. However if you gave me a dingwall, Ibanez fanned fret or set up a bass for me to use no problem you just would have to make sure I don't take it home.

I have heard some people never said it to me but read on adds and heard from other low end thumpers of you can't make it sound good on a four than you suck or jaco only needed four. I read an add before that said no five or six string bass players. But no one ever said it to me...If they did I would just say ok than how about you must have another bass player lined up....Wait, you don't?...You actually have been looking for a bass player for months...Thats funny I have other prospects, peace.

Another thing too bass players are harder to find than guitarist so usually bands don't care if they play one string of fifty string they just need bass.

 

[Winspear]

If old mate 2nd guitarist and primary songwriter suddenly came to practice with a song he had written that involves open string breakdowns in F#, what on earth am I supposed to do?

My first idea for that would be inverted 5ths on the 2nd guitar (low C#, F# on top), to make an F# powerchord in total. I'd usually try something like this to have some variation even if the guitars have access to the same notes.
Also, some harmony goes a long way for heavy riffs. Maybe a low A with an F# above it, or a low A with a C alternated or something.
There's a lot that can be done to make rhythm parts more interesting and thicken them up

 

[TedEH]

If old mate 2nd guitarist and primary songwriter suddenly came to practice with a song he had written that involves open string breakdowns in F#, what on earth am I supposed to do?

Play it in a different octave? Add a melody? Improvise? Be creative?

I mean, isn't being creative a large part of the point of playing original music?

Not picking on you in particular, just making a point.

 

[IChuckFinleyI]

To add to the "WE PLAY IN DROP C# ONLY" argument. There's this band called Periphery, you may have heard of them. They have three guitarists and any given song can have one playing a 6, one playing a 7 and the other one playing an 8. It seems to be working for them too. Crazy right?

 

[kamello]

To add to the "WE PLAY IN DROP C# ONLY" argument. There's this band called Periphery, you may have heard of them. They have three guitarists and any given song can have one playing a 6, one playing a 7 and the other one playing an 8. It seems to be working for them too. Crazy right?

they dont mix tunings/no. of strings during songs though, only during a set

Skyharbor (7 string standart, 6 string Drop B), Pomegranate Tiger (6 and 7 standart), and David Maxim Micic (7 string open G#, 6 strings Eb standart)
might serve as better example, but all of them are far from the chuggy breakdown-y stuff that Periphery do in a good amount of their songs, or the Acacia Strain as xCaptain mentioned

 

[Masoo2]

they dont mix tunings/no. of strings during songs though, only during a set

Skyharbor

Yeah, on their Polaris tour Devesh used one 7 string (JPX-7) while Keshav used three guitars IIRC, two sixes and a seven.

To piggy back on the Pomegranate Tiger, they also used 8s and 6s in conjunction for some songs.

 

[bhakan]

Play it in a different octave? Add a melody? Improvise? Be creative?

I mean, isn't being creative a large part of the point of playing original music?

Not picking on you in particular, just making a point.

I feel like we as a forum tend to forget that not everyone wants to be a doing something crazy. Can you play an 8 string and a 6 string together? Of course, and it's awesome. But not everyone wants to add a harmony or a melody. Sometimes people just want to play unison chug riffs. There's nothing wrong with doing that, nor is it inherently any less creative than some crazy prog song. Some bands sound better with simple catchy riffs. If Red Fang had guitarists in two different tunings and were forced to play two different things it would ruin their sound for example.

 

[Given To Fly]

To add to the "WE PLAY IN DROP C# ONLY" argument. There's this band called Periphery, you may have heard of them. They have three guitarists and any given song can have one playing a 6, one playing a 7 and the other one playing an 8. It seems to be working for them too. Crazy right?

I would say "they make it work" rather than "its working for them." I might be wrong though, perhaps those songs are the relaxing ones.

 

[xCaptainx]

To add to the "WE PLAY IN DROP C# ONLY" argument. There's this band called Periphery, you may have heard of them. They have three guitarists and any given song can have one playing a 6, one playing a 7 and the other one playing an 8. It seems to be working for them too. Crazy right?

We live in New Zealand. We tour America at least once a year but we instantly have $6,000 overheads for long haul flights before we've even begun planning.

Last big tour we did we traveled with three guitars; two main and one backup shared.

Again, logistics for us are priority #1, especially with us being so geographically isolated.

bhakan nailed it. We play late 90s/early 2000s metalcore i.e. Earth Crisis, All Out War. We have a specific sound and that's what we do. And we enjoy it. Transposing riffs, adding 5ths, octaves etc would just sound ridiculous for our genre.

I think I've exhausted myself enough sharing my viewpoint on this. If someone turned up with an 8 string to a practice, I'd politely ask them to leave it at home, unless we had already committed to 8 string guitars as a complete band.

 

[espdna]

the only gripe my band mates have is when i show up to practice with no pants on..

 

[Ordacleaphobia]

Lots of real talk in this thread, from both sides.
Really interesting read, haven't thought of a lot of this stuff before.

Now I feel kind of guilty for being that guy that has like 5 different guitars with 5 different configurations

 

[Spicypickles]

I have 12 guitars and most are in different tunings. They only one's with the same tunings are drastically different (strat/LP style).


ATB are an example of a band that have several songs in different tunings and just play 8's (for the most part) due to their tuning style.