Bands these days, more like a business?

[Alex6534]

Just something I've been thinking about more and more, my own band are looking at getting gigs in the beginning of 2014 and we've been looking at the best ways to promote ourselves once we have everything gathered (demo, merch, social media organised etc..). The more I look into it the more it seems that bands nowadays are having to run it as a business i.e. having an image or sound that uniquely identifies you (USP) and what your music represents that separates you from the thousands of others in the area trying to do the same. Also with the recent rise in social media more bands are reconsidering their marketing and considering/reviewing how they represent themselves and the content that they post/promote and how it could effect them as a brand/business. Overall, I know that quality music will attract their primary audience, but it seems like now in order to progress to the point where you start to gather momentum and the hope of using the band as a career path then it takes a lot more leg work and an understanding of promotion and some business sense.

Thoughts?

 

[MaxOfMetal]

Being in a band has always been like a business, the only difference is that now bands are doing it at earlier stages and in different ways.

 

[cwhitey2]

Being in a band has always been like a business, the only difference is that now bands are doing it at earlier stages and in different ways.

Totally agree with this.

 

[Leveebreaks]

Max speaks the truth, in the old days bands relied on the record company to do all of it for them so selling themselves was not so much of an issue. At least now with all the tech and social media upheaval, bands can get ripped off by a completely different set of people for not reading contracts properly

Having joined a fairly established project in the last year myself after quite a bit of time away from the music scene, I am amazed by how much work you have to put in now before you even reach the "starting gate" of gigging and getting a local name for yourself. My band had already done the high profile supports etc ( Skid Row \m/ ) but that was a few years ago and any momentum gathered from that is long gone. It feels like starting a new band to me.

Everyone has a facebook, a band site, merch, a soundcloud, weblogs, twitter, video diaries and uploads etc, and unfortunately most of it is white noise now because there is no way to filter the information out. I actually miss bands being mysterious and secretive like Tool, but it just doesn't seem to be possible anymore.

So...yeah you need to d.i.y it all yourself now, and good luck, because people are extremely averse to actually paying money for things nowadays.

 

[AliceLG]

It has always been like a business , but with the boom of social media and the fans' unrelenting desire for instant gratification via YouTube, Twitter and what-not, it has become even more of a Brand Management thing. We can see now way too many bands that are marketing juggernauts, but musically they're average at best.

 

[Louis Cypher]

Agree with Max, you only have to look at those that didn't take it seriously as a business and a "job" and then when the bubble burst ended up broke or having to pay out like 50% or more of their earnings to their first manager or record label, despite having sold millions of records.

 

[abandonist]

I think it all depends on your attitude to what you're doing. Playing music is a hobby for me, so I give no thought to any of the marketing or growth aspects of it.

 

[xCaptainx]

How on earth has nobody mentioned TOURING yet? Get out there, get on the road and play a shitload of shows.

 

[Nats]

How on earth has nobody mentioned TOURING yet? Get out there, get on the road and play a shitload of shows.

Touring is Soooo yesterday. It's all about bedroom solo albums and YouTube play throughs, man.

 

[8last]

It seems to find success in the biz it goes marketing, image and music. In that order of importance. If you don't have at least one person in the band who knows how to play the game, you are pretty much doomed...

 

[GunpointMetal]

It seems to find success in the biz it goes marketing, image and music. In that order of importance. If you don't have at least one person in the band who knows how to play the game, you are pretty much doomed...

This seems to be my forever dilemma....I just wanna write music and play my fvcking guitar, but if I want anyone to give a shit I gotta have a degree in online marketing and videotape myself playing along to uber-edited and reamped versions of my songs every day. Now days you can't even find a person who is willing to help manage a band unless you're already basically doing it all yourselves. WTF is a manager for then? not like I want one, but the three of us in the band aren't exactly marketing geniuses or feel like living on facebook.

 

[technomancer]

Being in a band has always been like a business, the only difference is that now bands are doing it at earlier stages and in different ways.

Well, it always has been for the bands that get anywhere

 

[acrcmb]

It's always been that way only the mediums have changed it used to be flyers now it's social media, the basic fact is promotion is required to take that next step you need an audience built up and they won't come to you, just like any other bussiness you have to attract them, the music may be good enough to stand on it's own merits but you still have to get people to listen in the first place, you seem to be aware of how you need to be careful with social media which is good but think about how helpful social media is now aswell the potential audience is massive plus it lets you interact directly with your audience they will tell you what they like and what they don't like, it's a huge advantage having that kind of direct contact with the people who will be buying the music. That being said I still think it's possible to be in a band without doing that to much of that stuff just don't expect to make a living off it.

 

[JohnIce]

It seems to find success in the biz it goes marketing, image and music. In that order of importance. If you don't have at least one person in the band who knows how to play the game, you are pretty much doomed...

I respectfully disagree. All three are important, but the idea that you can be "successful" without great music and/or being a great live act is not true in almost all cases in my experience. Consider this:

1) With internet marketing being free for all, being visible enough can make people think you're successful. It's relatively easy to fool people online, but if you can't keep people coming to your shows, you're obviously far from successful. You can't make money through marketing alone.
2) You get jaded on the internet. With all the white noise that is on the internet, it can be hard to convey just how great a "successful" band is compared to the hordes of local bands. Working a lot in the live industry and seeing tons of artists I never would've seen otherwise, has humbled me so much and made me realize that up close and in person, these artists are in fact way above most of the stuff you see on a local level.

That said, neglecting any of the three areas you mentioned is stupid, if you want to be successful that is. But the idea that music comes last is only true if you're One Direction or similar, it's certainly not applicable to rock bands with an audience over 12 years old.

 

[Alex6534]

Agree with what a lot of you's have posted here, thought it would be an interesting discussion. Did you's see what Keith Merrow posted on his page today?


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This is a question I get quite often, so I figured I'd share my response to it, publicly. If anyone is interested in my thoughts regarding making a living in the music industry, read on. It's long, and I was kinda in a hurry. Sorry for any typos.

Question-

"I'm a huge admirer of your work, so I thought it would be just logical to ask for your advice as well.

Right now I am completely resetting the goals of my life, and decided to start heading towards music, which is pretty much my biggest passion, and driving force, as I have come to realize.

In a few years time, I want to have my own little home studio at least, and if I could start making a living using that in any way, or just simply get closer to it, then I'd say I'm one step closer
to heaven. To achieve this, I am also willing to work like a slave as well, but any suggestions, or any advice would be more than welcome.
Like what are some of the mistakes that I should definitely avoid, or basically anything, that jumps to your mind

I made the mistake of selling my guitar 1-2 years ago, after playing it for a good 7 years, just when I finally began to write the kind of music I liked, more and more the way I liked it. First of all, I'm getting one in a few weeks or so, naturally.

What I (think I) really need some advice, tips on is this:

What possibilities would you suggest to make a living from music, or at least in some way working around instruments,
while you are not exactly at the level of a professional player yet?

Or, once again, anything, ANY advice at all would be more than welcome, and greatly appreciated!

Thanks for reading this, and keep up the amazing work you do!

Wishing you the best, "

My reply-

"Hello,

Thanks for the kind words! Sorry for the late reply, it's sometimes hard to keep up with the emails I get here on YouTube.

First off, know that although I am currently a working individual in the music industry, I'm not the authority on the subject, by any means. Most of what I'm about to tell you applies strictly to the DIY musician (my situation). I think every working musician's situation is different, and all of them have had to find ways to be successful in their own way. You have to define to yourself what you consider to be successful. I mean, do you want to be able to pay rent, or do you want to show up to NAMM in a helicopter? Set reasonable goals for yourself, meet them, and then set bigger goals.

Secondly, I strongly encourage you to consider how difficult it actually is to become a professional in the music industry. Music is a subjective thing, and it's been devalued so much over the years, that it's almost not realistic to choose the industry as a way to make a living. First and foremost, you have to put your love for your craft above all else. You can't go into it with hopes of making money, because the sad reality is, most people won't. Do it because you love music. If making music is all you ever gain from your endeavors, that should be enough.

If you want to get your foot in the door, I would say the best way to do that is to find a job at a local musical instrument retailer. Work around other people in the industry. Build up your home studio as you work, and start trying to reel in business. Keep in mind, most of what you do while you are building a name for yourself will be "pro bono". Build up a portfolio, then you can start charging people for whatever music-related services you have to offer.

I have a regular job. I do tech support for Seymour Duncan guitar pickups. Being a musician, money has to come in from many different places. Music, merch, endorsements, paid product demos, a job, studio work, recording/production, lessons, etc. Like I said, everyone's situation is a little different. Every working industry person I know has their own unique situation, and have had to find their own way to be successful. There's no formula for it. You carve your own path.

You have to not just be a proficient musician, but a very, VERY savvy business person. You must know how to conduct business, and be absolutely on-point with networking and media.

In other words, it's tough. You have to REALLY want it, and do absolutely everything you can to make it happen. Just be aware that it might not happen. It took me many years before I even saw a single penny from the music industry. My story is a successful one, but there are thousands of people who have tried (and many are still trying) the same thing and did not succeed. It's a huge gamble.

It's part luck, talent, and business/street smarts. Those are just some of the ingredients. It definitely doesn't just happen on it's own. A lot of people tend to think that musicians are lazy people (some are). But, that just isn't the case these days if you want to get anywhere. You have to work harder than the average person, and have a fierce dedication to your own cause. My typical "workday" is 12-14 hours per day, and consists of MANY different music-realated things.

For some people, it just happens organically, while others have to sacrifice everything and eat Ramen their whole lives just to keep the dream alive. Whatever you do, just be smart about it! And just to reiterate, don't do it for the money. Do it because you love the art of making music. If you're good at it, maybe you can turn it into a career. If you're dedicated and hard-working, chances are you'll eventually get paid for the art that you're creating, as long as you're smart about it.

Hope that helps.

-KM"

 

[Metal-Box]

A professional band is basically a company. It has to be that way. That is one thing so many people don't get. If the company isn't managed correctly and does not produce a quality product, it will go out of business.

 

[GalacticDeath]

Bands are small businesses. You're offering an entertainment service. That's why I'll never play a show for free. It's bullshit. Venues don't want to pay, then we're not gonna play. Simple as that

 

[HellGamer666]

Why not make it a business? I seldom believe that people would start a band (a REAL band, not One Direction) with the sole intention of profiteering, so making money from your art is always positive. The local scene where I live is rife with bands that believe band photos come before recordings and such, though. In those kind of instances, it does suck the life out of the art. But hey, it's all about exposure, right? I have a crazy Music Industry Studies teacher that is making us print out business cards, make posters, create Facebook pages, fill out ABN forms and all of this other crap for our shitty high school band, haha. Music is now being taught as a business.

 

[GunpointMetal]

Why not make it a business? I seldom believe that people would start a band (a REAL band, not One Direction) with the sole intention of profiteering, so making money from your art is always positive. The local scene where I live is rife with bands that believe band photos come before recordings and such, though. In those kind of instances, it does suck the life out of the art. But hey, it's all about exposure, right? I have a crazy Music Industry Studies teacher that is making us print out business cards, make posters, create Facebook pages, fill out ABN forms and all of this other crap for our shitty high school band, haha. Music is now being taught as a business.

I guess this is where I have a problem...if you want to be successful, you have to treat it like a business, but its gotta be born out of love....If you're a beginning original band and you have 400 professionally shot promo photos, awesome artwork on your facebook page, and you haven't even finished writing a song or played a show, GTFO! Also, local level original acts, in my experience HAVE TO take some shows where there is no monetary guarantee sometimes, and when I hear about a band that's only played a few shows wouldn't play a show because "They can't guarantee us $200." I say fVCK them!

 

[morethan6]

I guess this is where I have a problem...if you want to be successful, you have to treat it like a business, but its gotta be born out of love....If you're a beginning original band and you have 400 professionally shot promo photos, awesome artwork on your facebook page, and you haven't even finished writing a song or played a show, GTFO! Also, local level original acts, in my experience HAVE TO take some shows where there is no monetary guarantee sometimes, and when I hear about a band that's only played a few shows wouldn't play a show because "They can't guarantee us $200." I say fVCK them!

Right - except that the only possible way to force people to start paying even minimal wages to musicians is for every band to stop playing for free. There is a balance between choosing to do stuff for free or even paying to do it because it has fringe benefits (like a great support slot for example) and just giving your talent away.

People will take anything they are given for free. That doesn't mean they wouldn't also pay for it if it wasn't free.