Biggest pet peeves as a sound engineer/ producer

[TheBotquax]

For me it's people who think that simple effects like an eq can magically turn shitty sounds into professional ones. I'm no expert engineer or producer, but when people ask me "which eq should I use to make my junky freeware drum program sound like your $250 one" it makes me facepalm a bit! Even with the program I use (sd2.0) it still takes hours and hours of tweaking and tone testing to get the sound I want, and people think it should only take 15 minutes

 

[KingAenarion]

For me it's people who think that simple effects like an eq can magically turn shitty sounds into professional ones. I'm no expert engineer or producer, but when people ask me "which eq should I use to make my junky freeware drum program sound like your $250 one" it makes me facepalm a bit! Even with the program I use (sd2.0) it still takes hours and hours of tweaking and tone testing to get the sound I want, and people think it should only take 15 minutes

The extension of this being "Can't you just fix it in the mix?"

This makes me want to torture them to a slow death and make the body disappear so that no one will ever find them.

 

[JohnIce]

+1 on the "fix it in the mix" guys. I'm an old-school, practice-makes-perfect type of musician. And I studied recording and mixing only to extend my control over my own music, not because I like editing s**t in an arrange window. So I practiced even more so I wouldn't have to edit s**t

Musicians who don't share that view are hard to work with. Partly because I don't like that attitude, but also because if I agree to produce/mix someone's album for a set fee I don't expect to spend an extra unpaid month editing and exchanging versions with the band where they want me to "turn up" drum hits that were never played.

The worst thing is when these lazy-ass musicians turn into perfectionists as soon as the recording sessions are over. They can't be bothered getting a good take in the studio, but later if my mix doesn't end up sounding like KSE then I'm not done editing it...

Another thing that stings is drum recordings. I can't play drums very well but I LOVE the act of recording and mixing them. I'll spend probably 50% of the time in a mix on just the drums. So when someone asks me to record them, I'll usually spend some time getting a great drum sound, and getting the band really pumped by doing so. Everyone loves a great sounding drum kit!

...then the drummer couldn't play and I end up replacing everything but the OH's in the final mix. Thousands of dollars worth of mics on the kit and the album sounds like SD2.0 anyway. That fucking hurts.

 

[KingAenarion]

+1 on the "fix it in the mix" guys. I'm an old-school, practice-makes-perfect type of musician. And I studied recording and mixing only to extend my control over my own music, not because I like editing s**t in an arrange window. So I practiced even more so I wouldn't have to edit s**t

Musicians who don't share that view are hard to work with. Partly because I don't like that attitude, but also because if I agree to produce/mix someone's album for a set fee I don't expect to spend an extra unpaid month editing and exchanging versions with the band where they want me to "turn up" drum hits that were never played.

The worst thing is when these lazy-ass musicians turn into perfectionists as soon as the recording sessions are over. They can't be bothered getting a good take in the studio, but later if my mix doesn't end up sounding like KSE then I'm not done editing it...

Another thing that stings is drum recordings. I can't play drums very well but I LOVE the act of recording and mixing them. I'll spend probably 50% of the time in a mix on just the drums. So when someone asks me to record them, I'll usually spend some time getting a great drum sound, and getting the band really pumped by doing so. Everyone loves a great sounding drum kit!

...then the drummer couldn't play and I end up replacing everything but the OH's in the final mix. Thousands of dollars worth of mics on the kit and the album sounds like SD2.0 anyway. That fucking hurts.

This makeshift want to kill myself. You should do what I do man. Get Steven Slate Trigger, get the instrument editor and make samples of their drumkit right at the start of the recording for replacement. Sounds way better.

As to not being able to play. When you agree to record a band, I always make them record rough demos. I make them write out structures and tempos. I make a click track straight away and tell the drummer to practice along to it at least twice a day per song. So far I've got pretty good results with this method.

 

[Rap Hat]

The self-taught recording expert. Every band has one, and they always know a "better" way to do things than the actual way you want to do things.

This is my biggest peeve, and actually had me kill a session once. This was one of my first on-location bands after I started offering that, and they were friends of my studio partner so I figured I could trust leaving the setup in their rehearsal space.
The band I was recording was a standard alt-metal setup, and the vocalist was always giving EQ advice, moving mics, etc. etc. It was a headache and I'd tell him "dude, if you want to try something else let me know first, and I can tell you if it's feasible (STOP MOVING THE MICS!)". We had something like 4-5 songs fully tracked, another 3 about half done, and I'd just finished mixing their two singles for radio play later that week.

A few days before their radio debut, I come into the rehearsal space to see the vocalist sitting at the PC with Nuendo open. It was one of those moments where you KNOW everything is fucked, and the world moves in slow motion. I say "Heeeeey, whaaat aaaare yoooou doooooing" (slow motion, remember), and he says back "I just fixed the two radio edits!"

It was a disaster. He had deleted a number of tracks (guitar, vocals, drums, it didn't matter!) to "clean" things up, had completely redone every single plugin to his tastes, and somehow overwritten the backups and mixdowns I had made. And it wasn't just the radio mixes, but the ones we'd been tracking that week too. His "fixes" sounded horrible; scooped mids on every instrument (bass, drums, guitar, vocals, hell even the room mics!), some awful dance synths all over the tracks, obnoxious delay on all his vocal lines, and the worst use of compression I've ever seen.

I don't remember my reaction, other than vague blurs of "WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU DO!"s and "FUCK THIS!"s. I told the band I was done, that I was packing up and leaving. They could have the masters/mixdowns to do whatever with, but I would not help them anymore.

On the day of the radio interview/singles release I decided to tune in, to see if they had pulled out. Nope! The DJ interviews the band, they talk about whatever, and then they namedrop my studio. Fuuuuuuuck. The tracks come on, and it's an abortion. They used the mixes that the singer had done, and it was even more vile than what I heard when he'd played them back for me.

Thank God barely anyone had tuned in - None of my subsequent clients ever brought it up, and it didn't seem to affect my business at all. That was enough to get me rethinking the whole "on-location" thing, and we enacted much stricter control over the mixes (locked PC, off-site backups).

 

[Rational Gaze]

This is my biggest peeve, and actually had me kill a session once. This was one of my first on-location bands after I started offering that, and they were friends of my studio partner so I figured I could trust leaving the setup in their rehearsal space.
The band I was recording was a standard alt-metal setup, and the vocalist was always giving EQ advice, moving mics, etc. etc. It was a headache and I'd tell him "dude, if you want to try something else let me know first, and I can tell you if it's feasible (STOP MOVING THE MICS!)". We had something like 4-5 songs fully tracked, another 3 about half done, and I'd just finished mixing their two singles for radio play later that week.

A few days before their radio debut, I come into the rehearsal space to see the vocalist sitting at the PC with Nuendo open. It was one of those moments where you KNOW everything is fucked, and the world moves in slow motion. I say "Heeeeey, whaaat aaaare yoooou doooooing" (slow motion, remember), and he says back "I just fixed the two radio edits!"

It was a disaster. He had deleted a number of tracks (guitar, vocals, drums, it didn't matter!) to "clean" things up, had completely redone every single plugin to his tastes, and somehow overwritten the backups and mixdowns I had made. And it wasn't just the radio mixes, but the ones we'd been tracking that week too. His "fixes" sounded horrible; scooped mids on every instrument (bass, drums, guitar, vocals, hell even the room mics!), some awful dance synths all over the tracks, obnoxious delay on all his vocal lines, and the worst use of compression I've ever seen.

I don't remember my reaction, other than vague blurs of "WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU DO!"s and "FUCK THIS!"s. I told the band I was done, that I was packing up and leaving. They could have the masters/mixdowns to do whatever with, but I would not help them anymore.

On the day of the radio interview/singles release I decided to tune in, to see if they had pulled out. Nope! The DJ interviews the band, they talk about whatever, and then they namedrop my studio. Fuuuuuuuck. The tracks come on, and it's an abortion. They used the mixes that the singer had done, and it was even more vile than what I heard when he'd played them back for me.

Thank God barely anyone had tuned in - None of my subsequent clients ever brought it up, and it didn't seem to affect my business at all. That was enough to get me rethinking the whole "on-location" thing, and we enacted much stricter control over the mixes (locked PC, off-site backups).

In situations like these, I'd rescind my involvement whatsoever. The minute people fuck with my work, it is no longer mine. Sorry dude, that must have been a real nerve-racking experience.

 

[Rap Hat]

In situations like these, I'd rescind my involvement whatsoever. The minute people fuck with my work, it is no longer mine. Sorry dude, that must have been a real nerve-racking experience.

It was a helluva learning experience, that's for sure. Looking back there was so much I could've done differently to avoid it, but I was so excited to have studio business that I let lots of stuff slide.

My advice to anyone recording other bands: don't be afraid to put your foot down. It took me longer than it should've since I was much younger than my partner and most of our clients, and our work suffered as a result.


Another peeve I just thought of: bands that have stuff recorded on a Tascam 4-track with a RadioShack mic (or equivalent) and demand you make it sound professional. I can work with a lot and try to give the band the best quality possible, but I can't "fix" a guitar track recorded with your iPhone's mic. If you can't play the part again, try something else.
Bands that use the poor recordings as part of their sound are a different story, and I love working with them to translate that kind of vision.

 

[MF_Kitten]

people who abide by certain standards without thinking it over. Like scooping mids nad boosting the lows because "that's what makes for a beefy tone". I tweak their amp while they play, they get an epiphany because "OMG mids and roary sound?!", and then they are RIGHT BACK to scooping it later, because they don't feel right straying from their preconceived notions.

I remember this one guy who complained that something was wrong with his pickups or wiring, because they were feeding back like crazy, and they were really noisy. They were EMG 81s/85s. I plugged his guitar into his amp, started with a neutral low-gain setting, and turned the gain up until it got a good chug and roar, and dialed the tone in to sound clear and growly in the mids. Not a squeal, no noise. Controlled feedback faded in slowly if i let go of the strings. Perfect!

Did he learn? nope.

People sticking with certain brands, and straying from others, because of traditional values and because they just "feel right" with that whole "team".

People who love a modern sound, but only buys vintage gear, and complains that they are having problems nailing that tone they like.

People who value "badassery" over "not being an idiot". You know, that guy that refuses to wear earplugs, and wants everything super loud with the bass knobs on full, because "FUCK YEAH POWER BWAAAH!". Sure, everyone is bleeding from their ears, can't hear what's going on, and is in severe pain at this shrill and boomy mess you're presenting, and your hearing won't last long enough for an entire tour,but at least it's BADASS, right?!

People who have strong opinions on fucking EVERYTHING. "You actually LIKE brand X gear? time to cause a shitstorm!"

 

[Genome]

Bands who want 808 bass drops every four bars

Fixed

 

[JohnIce]

One thing I kinda brought upon myself, was recently when I recorded a prog band, and all their synthesizers were midi-files. We only had three days to record the full band so I said as long as the midi-files were good, I could tweak the sounds to the band's tastes after we were done recording. It was the only way we could do it, but it was a horrible idea nonetheless.

It took the better part of a month to do And about 20 different uploads to Soundcloud. So much back and forth, bypassing and reactivating plugins, tweaking advanced synths, automating everything, and digging through my backups half the time because "it sounded better before...".

Granted, if I'd been charging by the hour it'd been a different story. Sadly, I didn't. I charged a set price for production and mixing, and a pretty generous one too because I used to be in a band with the bass player. Little did I know I'd spend 90% of the time editing rather than mixing.

 

[Rational Gaze]

This one is about other engineers, and virtuoso musicians that do not understand engineering, but I had an acquaintance, Garret, decide he wanted me to mix his band's debut. Garret is a brilliant kid. Young, naturally gifted with insane hands and ears. So I suggested a few places they could go to record drums, as they could do the rest of the instruments direct into their own setup. Well, they were "on a budget", so they went to some place in Hyattsville, MD. Whatever, I didn't figure it would be an issue.

So a few weeks later, Garret comes over with the session files, jots down a few notes for me, and leaves. My setup is as minimal as you can get. I tend to do most of my mixing work in the box, some outboard compressors, etc. But I tend to do work with plugins, until I can afford better gear. I digress. Well, I export all the files into SONAR, do some basic panning, and begin listening to the raw tracks. Now, here is a word of caution to bands that operate in the prog/fusion jazz/rock area: do NOT, EVER take your shit to a budget rap engineer/producer. Like EVERRRRR!!!

The instruments/vocals were fine. The bass especially was recorded beautifully. No issues there. The drums however sounded like someone used a midi drum pack from 1996, and applied it to a fusion rock recording. I've NEVER heard shit like this before. The kick was triggered to this really beefy, clicky metal kick that came straight from Demanufacture (because any band that uses guitars is automatically a metal band). The snare was triggered awfully (imagine someone punching a box that's made entirely of snare strings), and while I could hear the ghost notes through the hi-hat mic bleed, there were none on the actual track. The dude straight up decided these were the definite tracks, and didn't even leave an option for me to mess with the drum mix. The triggers were to tape. The Toms had this awful thing on them where the triggered sounds actually were just a single sample per tom. The engineer didn't have a multivelocity trigger on these. It sounded fucking terrible. And on THESE the trigger sound was blended with the actual drum sound, but there was a noise gate in the chain TO TAPE, and it wasn't set properly, so I had this breathing sound of the drums suddenly appearing in this ridiculous stereo pattern whenever the toms were hit, only to go away with possibly the fastest release time known to man. Like....what the fuck. I couldn't believe this guy was actually making any money.

So...yeah.....I spent about a month toiling away at this shit. The drums alone took me about three weeks to figure out. I completely threw the book out on this and just did some insane routing patterns. It was a shitstorm. My session looked like shit. Ugh...never again. Pay an extra 100 dollars for a decent drum recording, because assholes like this will make mixing engineers' lives a living hell.

Also, Garret has now decided to record a second album. This time he had the brilliant idea that he wanted to capture his band's live sound. So....he decided to record the band in a garage on a budget ZOOM microphone........

I can't even.....

Insanely talented kid, but believes I can make a single stereo wave form sound like a fucking 5.1 mix. I'm not that insane.

 

[KingAenarion]

^ This is why I saved and invested in decent drum microphones and an interface good enough to handle multiple channels well.

Fucking shit drums are useless. I have a couple of times now had my bands drummer bring his TD-20 over and had their drummer re-track the drums through Superior or Steven Slate just to get a half decent drum sound.

 

[MrPepperoniNipples]

well i just learned a shit-ton of what not to do when working with a producer

 

[KingAenarion]

well i just learned a shit-ton of what not to do when working with a producer

Experience tends to trump "but the guys on Gearslutz said..." in terms of practical USEABLE knowledge.

 

[GXPO]

You guys have scared the shit out of me...

I'll tell the producer at the start how to not take my shit and he'll be on SSO a day later talking about this up-tight motherfucker who refused to talk to him, tell him what sound he was looking for or bring his own amp

I joke of course, gonna need that pinch of salt..

 

[Rational Gaze]

Feedback is wonderful. It's a lot easier to know what an artist is aiming for, than when people walk in cold, and you sit there for about two hours ensuring the mids are correct and the tone sounds just like Periphery.

 

[JohnIce]

^ This is why I saved and invested in decent drum microphones and an interface good enough to handle multiple channels well.

Good move. To be honest, a song is often only as good as its drums. It's so easy and cheap nowadays to get great guitar tones, good vocal mics can cost $100, bass and midi keys aren't even an issue at all... so what really separates home-made mediocrity from professional records is often the drum sounds.

It's funny, often when people hear my mixes they ask about what samples I used for the drums, and I say they aren't sampled, that's why you think they sound good Blending in samples for more transients or sub etc. can sound great, but a consistent drummer + a good kit + careful mic choices and placement almost always sounds better than any of the common drum samplers (SD2.0, EZD, BFD2, Slate etc.).

-edit- As for live sound peeves... band members who don't wait their turn during sound checks. Or just make unnecessary noise. All to many musicians see sound check as either a) warmup chops practice, or b) a chance to scare off the other bands on the bill by exercising your frighteningly fast scale runs through the P.A.

How hard is it to wait for your turn, chug a chord when the sound engineer wants you to so he can EQ you or evaluate the mic placement, then when he's happy, shut up!

What might be even worse than this however, is guitarists who think it's rock n' roll to be louder than anything else, by turning up their master volume as they please during the show. Not only do they ruin the sound for the band and audience alike, half the people in the audience will blame the fucking SOUND GUY for it! I was meeting a couple of people planning a one day festival where they wanted me to do the sound, and one of the arrangers (who was also a headlining guitar player), said: "I don't get why sound guys always have to be such pussies about you changing amp settings when you're playing, don't they know anything about rock n' roll?". I grabbed my jacket and left, pretty much

 

[squid-boy]

Bands that run off to smoke dope during a session. AND DON'T EVEN BOTHER TO INVITE THE ENGINEER!

That's unacceptable!

Refusing to re-string and set the guitar up (proper intonation, buzz-lacking action, yadda-yadda) properly would be a big pet peeve if I had experience working and recording with other musicians.

 

[MrPepperoniNipples]

It was a disaster. He had deleted a number of tracks (guitar, vocals, drums, it didn't matter!) to "clean" things up, had completely redone every single plugin to his tastes, and somehow overwritten the backups and mixdowns I had made. And it wasn't just the radio mixes, but the ones we'd been tracking that week too. His "fixes" sounded horrible; scooped mids on every instrument (bass, drums, guitar, vocals, hell even the room mics!), some awful dance synths all over the tracks, obnoxious delay on all his vocal lines, and the worst use of compression I've ever seen.

 

[jackfiltraition]

Granted, if I'd been charging by the hour it'd been a different story. Sadly, I didn't. I charged a set price for production and mixing, and a pretty generous one too because I used to be in a band with the bass player. Little did I know I'd spend 90% of the time editing rather than mixing.

Yeah it's funny how picky people will become when you're not charging by the hour . I personally am in the middle of the tricky transition of moving from charging by song/ day to by the hour. It honestly is way too much work and time to sit around editing, sending mixes back and forth and playing psychiatrist to the members in the band that are being waaaay to picky!!!