Blackmachine B2

[Electric Wizard]

1000+ every year?!

Definitely, Ibanez makes at least 1000 RGs every year.

 

[bostjan]

Definitely, Ibanez makes at least 1000 RGs every year.

Ok, jokes aside, the RG predates the BM by a couple decades, and I really don't see many BM copies in the real world. Maybe they are all kept tucked away somewhere.

 

[Lorcan Ward]

1000+ every year?!

Maybe a bit too high actually but count every hypemachine, Neko, raptor, aliexpressmachine and countless other small builder BM clones, I see at least 5-10 every week on instagram or FB.

 

[wannabguitarist]

Blackmachine is nicknamed Hypemachine for a well supported reason.

Also happens to be the name of Ormsby's shameless copies that are not copies

 

[valvefury]

Maybe the dot.com billionaire pays $50 for a glass of water. What the dot.com billionaire pays for things is not an accurate interpretation of the market. I'm not saying some billionaire won't come along and buy the blackmachine for $20k, but that's really a completely ludicrous statement as it justifies any price for any good, and is about as likely as me winning the lottery. Actually statistically speaking, less likely than that.

Moreover, people saying that something is "worth what someone is willing to pay for it" are not looking at the market like an economist when applying that phrase to precedent prices. For instance, let's say a guy buys a blackmachine for $25k. There are now 3 people who want a blackmachine and have a substantial amount of money to spend. They are each willing to spend respectively:
A. $8k
B. $10k
C. $20k

A blackmachine comes up for sale. Potential buyer C makes his maximum offer, and it's accepted. Buyer C now owns a blackmachine. He grows tired of it, puts it on the market and says, "This blackmachine is worth at least $20k, as people have previously spent this much on blackmachines." How much is the blackmachine worth?

This is basically the blackmachine market right now. The distribution over how much people are willing to spend on luxury items is often very peaky, meaning that high prices are unsustainable when the peak market distribution becomes saturated.

I follow the logic some but the bottom line is a guitar is worth what someone will pay for it.

 

[theoctopus]

"There are roughly 10-15 B7s, 5 B8s and 5 FF8s."

That's the kind of building experience I like to put my money behind!

 

[narad]

I follow the logic some but the bottom line is a guitar is worth what someone will pay for it.

Of course it's worth what someone will pay for it, but the problem arises when people treat what someone has paid for it as a good indication of what someone will pay for it.

 

[bostjan]

Of course it's worth what someone will pay for it, but the problem arises when people treat what someone has paid for it as a good indication of what someone will pay for it.

What someone has paid for it ~ anecdote.
What people typically pay for it ~ data.
Small number of pieces from a builder ~ small data set.

On the other hand,

What you or I think of the price of a piece of gear neither of us intend to buy ~ conjecture.

So if I say I'd be really surprised if someone pays 18-20kUSD for a B2, that's a weak statement, but if you say that it's clearly not going to sell for that price, it's a strong statement, but, aside from the amount of certainty, it's really the same statement.

People saying that $20k for a B2 is reasonable, because there are so few B2's out there are also making a stretch, since, well, for one, no one is buying this piece, and, for two, there are estimated 50+ B2's out there. It's not like Kelly's Blue Book of Guitars has a price on Blackmachine B2's listed (TBH I haven't looked, though). But their statement is a conjecture, and my statement is a conjecture. It's all conjecture until someone buys the thing.

 

[Lorcan Ward]

If anyone cares I found a list me and a few others made a while ago:

Fanned Fret 8 strings: 5
Recent Spalted Maple on the site
Ebony Top with EMGs
1 piece Quilt Top with Cocobolo Board(was at Musikmesse)
Spalted Maple with zebrano board(On the site)
Burl Maple(Misha used to own)

Straight Scale 8 strings: 5
Ebony Top 2 pickups close together
Ebony Top with EMGs
Ebony top with Bubinga Board on the site
Ebony Top with passives
Red? top with two truss rods, Can't find much info

B7s: 7
Koa top and koa fretboard
Camphor Burl with Cocobolo fretboard(On the site)
Spalt Maple(was at Musikmesse)
Ebony Top with dot inlays and ABM saddles
Ebony Top
Flame Inlays up and down fretboard
Quilt Maple that Fred used to own(was at Musikmesse)

B2s:
Nolly Quilt Top
Nolly's old burl maple Top and ziricote board
Misha's Koa
Francesco's Spalt B2
Koa top and Blackwood fretboard
Koa top and cocobolo fretboard(was at Musikmesse)
Another Koa top(never seen pics)
Burl Maple top and Limba back
Spalt Maple top and streaky ebony board
1 piece quilt top
Ebony top and maple board
Bog Oak
Snakewood fretboard with Mahogany Body
Snakewood neck and burl top(on the site)
Snakewood neck with sapele body
Snakewood
Ebony with Flame Inlay on 12th fret
Ebony with Flame Inlay on 12th fret(there were two)
Ebony with full Flames
Ebony with Island on 12th fret
Ebony with Dot Inlays
Ebony with Dot Inlays treble side
Ebony with B inlay
Ebony with Brown streak below the pickups
Ebony with no binding
Ebony with ivoroid binding
Ebony with swamp ash body, no binding
Mahogany Body and Brazillian Rosewood Fretboard
Spalt Beech with Zebrano Board(On the site)
Spalt Maple with Zebrano Board
Sapele Mahogany with 12th fret Dots
Left Handed Ebony B2
Pin's mahogany B2 with treble side dot inlays
Pin's ebony B2

Then the tele and SG, not sure how many of them there are.

There are loads more ebony B2s and more BMs which Doug built for friends so there are no pictures so there could be more B7s and B8s.

 

[Humbuck]

Excellent info! THAT is why these threads are good...real information! Thanks Lorcan!

 

[valvefury]

Excellent info! THAT is why these threads are good...real information! Thanks Lorcan!

Double that - good job Lorcan!

 

[narad]

The SG is up for grabs as well:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/15k-Extreme...541781?hash=item41abb37f95:g:oFEAAOSwzgRWwm7H

 

[angl2k]

The SG is up for grabs as well:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/15k-Extreme...541781?hash=item41abb37f95:g:oFEAAOSwzgRWwm7H

Those protruding screw heads on the back plate make me cringe

 

[xzacx]

Those protruding screw heads on the back plate make me cringe

What about the surface-mounted selector plate, when the volume cavity is flush-mounted?

 

[Henry Terry]

I understand why someone would pay $ 20,000 for a Blackmachine B2, or more.

About 12 years ago, I visited Mandolin Brothers in Staten Island, New York. The store had a room full of vintage guitars, and I picked up a 1930 Martin OM-18 that was priced at $ 29,000. At the time, I owned a Martin OM-18V that I liked very much. To me, there was something really special about holding and playing the 1930 Martin, and if I could have afforded spending $ 29,000 for a guitar I would have bought it.

I stumbled upon the existence of Blackmachines in an article that mentioned the brand in passing while discussing something else, and I was intrigued by the name, so I went to the website. I thought (and still do) that they were awesome looking guitars, and I was charmed by the fact that they were "handmade in London" by a guy working alone.

I have never seen a Blackmachine. I do not know if I would buy one after playing one, but if I liked it and could afford it, I would buy it for $ 20,000. Sometimes, owning something that is very special to you is worth whatever the cost.

 

[A-Branger]

I understand why someone would pay $ 20,000 for a Blackmachine B2, or more.

About 12 years ago, I visited Mandolin Brothers in Staten Island, New York. The store had a room full of vintage guitars, and I picked up a 1930 Martin OM-18 that was priced at $ 29,000.

for a guitr from the 1930s I could understand it too. From the vintage point, brand, just the fact that it was made at that point in time where guitars werent that popular like they are now, and even more than the guitar manage to survive in good quality after 86 years.

but a guitar built in 2005? no way. Yes, it migh have accomplish a "rare collectible" status thanks to things previously mention here, but not the same 20k price of a 86yrs old instrument

 

[narad]

Yea, wake me up when it's 2090 and we'll see if a blackmachine justifies many multiples of its original price when it's properly collectable.

 

[Steinmetzify]

for a guitr from the 1930s I could understand it too. From the vintage point, brand, just the fact that it was made at that point in time where guitars werent that popular like they are now, and even more than the guitar manage to survive in good quality after 86 years.

but a guitar built in 2005? no way. Yes, it migh have accomplish a "rare collectible" status thanks to things previously mention here, but not the same 20k price of a 86yrs old instrument

Yea, wake me up when it's 2090 and we'll see if a blackmachine justifies many multiples of its original price when it's properly collectable.

You guys are ageists. I'm telling.

 

[Humbuck]

Those protruding screw heads on the back plate make me cringe

You'd never notice they were there as they have no effect on comfort.

 

[Jeffbro]

You'd never notice they were there as they have no effect on comfort.

Never played guitar without a shirt on?

Also I could name a hundred things that have no effect on comfort, but still make a guitar look cheap