Lorcan Ward
7slinger
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Bolt-On vs Neck-Thru
- Thread starter HungryGuitarStudent
- Start date
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Frostbite
Periphery Shill
Stop lying to all these people. How could you
I’ve played a lot more than 2 guitars.....
with the years I've come to the conclusion that there is no safe way to tell the difference. I've had a very nice top-of-the-line late eighties' MIJ neck-thru guitar that appeared to not have much sustain at all. I've had hand-built boutique LAKLAND USA bolt-on basses that were built meticulously and had sustain for days.
Here's what the world-famous Ken Smith the owner-founder of boutique Ken Smith basses and KSD basses (particularly known for a pocedure of pre-building neck-thru blanks and then cutting them to finalize as bolt-on) says:
"Like the difference between the ride of a car and a truck. Depends on the car or truck. Too many variables involved for an accurate answer. Do you mean the both basses compared would be built exactly the same except for the 4 screws? Or, one with a simple neck and body bolt model and the NT have 59 laminates? If so, you are comparing way way more than the neck joint difference.
To answer this question fairly, both basses must be made exactly the same with the exception of the neck joint. The problem with that is that on our basses, the bolt model neck has a slight pitch in the neck of 1 degree to reach the bridge height with the neck set above the body. The NT sits flush and has a 3 degree pitch to reach the same bridge height. So, even with the exact build specs (if that's your query), the tension design but angle is different between the two. Any other differences in the build and you might as well ask the guy in Tools at Home Depot. No telling what is doing exactly what!"
Here's what the world-famous Ken Smith the owner-founder of boutique Ken Smith basses and KSD basses (particularly known for a pocedure of pre-building neck-thru blanks and then cutting them to finalize as bolt-on) says:
"Like the difference between the ride of a car and a truck. Depends on the car or truck. Too many variables involved for an accurate answer. Do you mean the both basses compared would be built exactly the same except for the 4 screws? Or, one with a simple neck and body bolt model and the NT have 59 laminates? If so, you are comparing way way more than the neck joint difference.
To answer this question fairly, both basses must be made exactly the same with the exception of the neck joint. The problem with that is that on our basses, the bolt model neck has a slight pitch in the neck of 1 degree to reach the bridge height with the neck set above the body. The NT sits flush and has a 3 degree pitch to reach the same bridge height. So, even with the exact build specs (if that's your query), the tension design but angle is different between the two. Any other differences in the build and you might as well ask the guy in Tools at Home Depot. No telling what is doing exactly what!"
spudmunkey
Well-Known Member
I've seen people say everything from:
- neck-through sustains better than bolt-on
- nuh-uh, see this study says they it's the opposite
- well, neck-throughs sound dull because they emphazise the fundamental, and don't have the same harmonic richness of a bolt on
- Oh yeah? Well...wait, what?
- Cheap guitars are bolt-ons, therefore an expensive guitar shouldn't be.
- Yeah but cheap guitars are bolt-ons because they are the best way to do something cheaply, but that doesn't automatically make it inferior. And also, it depends on the work put into it in the end...a sloppy, neck-joint won't matter on a $100 strat knock-off, but sure-as-shit won't fly on a $2K+ guitar.
- neck-through sustains better than bolt-on
- nuh-uh, see this study says they it's the opposite
- well, neck-throughs sound dull because they emphazise the fundamental, and don't have the same harmonic richness of a bolt on
- Oh yeah? Well...wait, what?
- Cheap guitars are bolt-ons, therefore an expensive guitar shouldn't be.
- Yeah but cheap guitars are bolt-ons because they are the best way to do something cheaply, but that doesn't automatically make it inferior. And also, it depends on the work put into it in the end...a sloppy, neck-joint won't matter on a $100 strat knock-off, but sure-as-shit won't fly on a $2K+ guitar.
diagrammatiks
Well-Known Member
show me this neckthrough baritone.
spudmunkey
Well-Known Member
Agile Intrepids can come in that scale.
I would really like to see/hear a controlled test of bolt-on vs neck-through with all other variables being as similar as possible. Since almost everyone seems to agree about this bolt-on "snappiness" I want to believe it's true, but I have never been able to hear it myself.
Either way, if the guitar sounds good and has good upper fret access then I won't worry about the type of neck joint. If it doesn't, I'll look for another guitar. Of course, I could completely dismiss all neck-through guitars without playing them on the basis of them "not having enough snap" but I think I won't.
Either way, if the guitar sounds good and has good upper fret access then I won't worry about the type of neck joint. If it doesn't, I'll look for another guitar. Of course, I could completely dismiss all neck-through guitars without playing them on the basis of them "not having enough snap" but I think I won't.
The problem is, it's impossible to isolate the neck joint like this.
Even two of the exact same model of guitar built consecutively (or even concurrently) can sound different.
A good is example is that when Steve Vai wants a new JEM Ibanez sends him a batch of them (I've heads between five and ten) and he'll pick the one or two that sounds best to him.
Go to any guitar store and grab two or three of the same model. You'll notice small differences typically.
Yeah, true...
I do think theoretically it's totally possible to design an experiment to investigate bolt-on vs. neck-through, but in practice it's probably not plausible.
In the end it would be a whole lot of work to basically say "told you so" and probably wouldn't change anyone's mind.
This is just one of those things that doesn't matter. If someone doesn't want a given neck joint...cool. Let them be.
Guitars are tools of expression. If someone feels they can better express themselves with a guitar because it has a certain spec, who am I or anyone to tell them "no"?
I find if you want more "snap" it's easier to achieve when you have a trem guitar. Higher tension will give it to you for sure. You can adjust where the tension is coming from based on find tuner loctaion vs tuning machine vs spring tension and still be in tune but with different tensions and amounts of "snap". Also, making sure the intonation is as perfect as possible too. It seems even when the saddle is a little to forward it will affect the "snap" factor toogiving you more of a loose feeling. I use really high tensionon my springs plus use 5 springs and when setting up a new action or setup it can take literally dozens of attempts to get it just right for my taste rather than just techincally having the boxes checked. Action also plays a factor. Not so much action but bridge height in realtion to the nut. Lower action or extra high action will give more tension but the middle not so much. Extra high will make intonation impossible without a neck shim angle in being performed. I'd get a cheap beater guitar and strings and just keep messing it up until you get a feel for it. Properly stretching new strings will give more snap too.
GuitarBizarre
Listen to physics.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ST2FPPB--steinberger-st-2fpa-pitch-black
One of these. It's a maple body, maple neck with graphite U channel reinforcement, neckthrough, phenolic fretboard, headless 28.625" scale guitar with EMG 81/85 set, Piezo bridge and active EQ controls.
And every time I post about it all anyone can focus on is "But it's ugly"
Pat
Well-Known Member
I personally feel the whole thing with bolt on vs. neck thru, tone woods, 'snappyness', is mostly nonsense.
Bolt on vs. neck thru - I don't buy into the theory that one is "snappier" or provides more sustain. If anything I think sustain has more to do with the bridge, as this is where the string joins the guitar body, or the nut if playing open strings.
Different woods - the woods will probably vibrate differently, but this will have such a tiny effect on the sound of the note that it's pretty much unnoticeable (for electric guitars at least).
People who claim certain fretboards provide different tones? Makes no sense to me - you are cutting off a note behind a fret, so the string ideally shouldn't even touch the fretboard.
Bolt on vs. neck thru - I don't buy into the theory that one is "snappier" or provides more sustain. If anything I think sustain has more to do with the bridge, as this is where the string joins the guitar body, or the nut if playing open strings.
Different woods - the woods will probably vibrate differently, but this will have such a tiny effect on the sound of the note that it's pretty much unnoticeable (for electric guitars at least).
People who claim certain fretboards provide different tones? Makes no sense to me - you are cutting off a note behind a fret, so the string ideally shouldn't even touch the fretboard.
I see - case indisputably proven.
Sollipsist
Well-Known Member
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Take a neck- thru, cut off the neck, and then bolt it back on. I guarantee the tone will suffer. Case closed
...And you'll be wrong. That's what Ken Smith Basses do a lot and there's consensus it helps the tone.Take a neck- thru, cut off the neck, and then bolt it back on. I guarantee the tone will suffer. Case closed
Now. You were saying you guaranteed ? I take credit cards too
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Sollipsist
Well-Known Member
- Joined
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- Messages
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Offer void in... wherever you live...And you'll be wrong. That's what Ken Smith Basses do a lot and there's consensus it helps the tone.
Now. You were saying you guaranteed ? I take credit cards too
diagrammatiks
Well-Known Member
great. This is now a shitty tone wood thread.
Offer void in... wherever you live
I should've known!
