CAB COMPARISONS - 4x12 vs 2x12 vs 1x12

[steelyad]

Hi Everyone
This is the second in the comparison series - I wanted to compare the sound of a 4x12, 2x12 and 1x12 to prove that what a lot of guitarists take as gospel (4x12 makes the biggest sound maaaaaan!) doesn't work every time, and look into potential reasons why.

The guitar part is the same every time, with identical amp settings and mics and mic positions. The 4x12 and 2x12 are V30s, and the 1x12 is a Creamback M (so sue me, if I had a spare V30 i'd stick it in the 1x12 for a test but the 4x12 isn't mine and i'm not touching that Zilla with a screwdriver, it's my pride and joy!).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bfnhuLO98I

Let me know what you think, i'll give my opinion on what's happening and why things sound the way they do later on in the week. Any theories on why they're different will be good conversation!

 

[btbg]

Would like to hear the comparison with room mics!

 

[4Eyes]

Would like to hear the comparison with room mics!

Why? You're going to use close mic'ed cab in the recording, especially in metal. This test proves that you don't need 4x12 to get good results. I've heard this few times - the less speakers, the better.

 

[steelyad]

Why? You're going to use close mic'ed cab in the recording, especially in metal. This test proves that you don't need 4x12 to get good results. I've heard this few times - the less speakers, the better.

My thoughts exactly. Room mics don't work with heavy guitars, although it's a good idea for a video to prove it.

Bigger cabs don't sound so good for several reasons, but to really understand it you have to go right back to classic guitar amp construction.

As guitar amps got louder in the early 60s, speakers weren't keeping up - an original Marshall Plexi can put out 100W of noise, but early 12 inch speakers could only handle 15 watts each! Seriously, look at the celestion blue backs.

Because of this and the fact that PAs at the time didn't have the power to support guitars at all (vocals and maybe some drums only!) big name guitarists had a full 2 X 4x12 full stack so you could hear them at the back. These guys were the heroes, and so the kids copied them when they got the money for a pro rig - and this carried on from then to now. Because bigger is better, right?

Except that with huge developments in construction techniques, speakers in guitar cabs can now handle 60-75W Each - meaning my Zilla 2x12 can handle more power than an entire vintage full stack!

Now we can chase tone rather than need volume, the reality of tone and physics comes in. Have you ever opened up a 4x12 and found that there's a post in the middle of the baffle touching the back? That's because under heavy use, the entire front of the cab warps and flexes, causing phase problems between the speakers, cancelling out some frequencies and causing a whole host of potential issues.

In this way, a well built 2x12 has a much smaller baffle and only 2 speakers pushing and pulling the wood around, and a 1x12 even less so.

The other thing to think about with modern cabs is "thump" - that is to say, ultra low cabinet resonances, below 60Hz or so. These can be great live to give you feedback of your chugging, but in the studio I promise you I'm getting rid of anything that low down - that's bass/kick territory right there. So again, smaller cabs resonate a bit higher up, at the kind of 100-150Hz region, where car speakers and such can reproduce it and it comes across as some serious beef whilst leaving room in the mix for kick and bass weight. Everyone wins!

 

[Grindspine]

Do you happen to know if the Zilla cab is filled with UK made Vintage 30s opposed to Chinese made Vintage 30s? I have heard a clear difference between the two makes when comparing a Vintage 30 from Mesa/Boogie (English made Celestion) VS one from an Orange cab.

 

[prlgmnr]

Just idly thinking aloud here, but do you think the extra speakers could cause phase issues with the 4x12? Wonder how it would sound if you placed the mics according to where they sound the "best" for each cab rather than identical positions?

 

[steelyad]

I can't say for certain about the V30s, however Paul from Zilla proudly hand-makes every cab so I can say confidently that he would use the UK celestions and not Chinese.

As for phase issues, that's what I was alluding to- although much more subtle than the word "phase" means to most non-scientists. We usually associate phase with "in" or "out" when in fact the many degrees in between can be smeared at different frequencies, causing a whole host of things, both positive and negative.

But what exactly do you mean by "best" position? Each speaker is the same shape as the others, and it wouldn't be a very good comparison from me to start adding other variables into proceedings. It's entirely possible each cab could sound "better" if I searched for differences, but what is better anyway? I've taken my own opinion out of the comparison by keeping every possible parameter the same.

 

[prlgmnr]

I'm not knocking your test, it's a totally fair test with interesting results. Nor am I particularly attached to 4x12s (no room for one in here for a start).

I just meant that you wouldn't proceed on a session by micing up in the same place every time or for every cab, you'd try and find the spot at which you got the best sound for the player at the time. It would be equally fair to find the mic position which got each cab sounding it's best and then compared.

I'm thinking that that mic position probably isn't the best sound you could have got out of that 4x12, but that's just my instinct based on not a lot at all. And by not a lot I mean 0 experience of micing up any cab other than my orange 2x12.

 

[4Eyes]

I can't say for certain about the V30s, however Paul from Zilla proudly hand-makes every cab so I can say confidently that he would use the UK celestions and not Chinese.

I doubt it, UK made V30s are available only to Mesa and probably Marshall who has them made to their own specs. Mesa says their V30s are same as made in China except the fact they are made in UK, but they do sound different for sure. Every other manufacturer uses standard chinese V30s, they do sound great in well made cab, there is nothing to worry about them.

 

[steelyad]

Having done some reading up on this, the chinese V30 is the "V30" we know and love, and the one Mesa use is a different speaker entirely, albeit with the same name. I made the false assumption that Zilla would use the UK based choice, when there simply isn't one! I stand by my assertion that given a choice between good quality and bad, Paul would choose the better option every time. It would seem that Celestion made their own factory over there though, and run it right, since i've never had a bad speaker or heard of a return job, so just because it's chinese doesn't automatically make it bad.

 

[steelyad]

IN OTHER NEWS.....

I've also made a video below comparing the 120W tube amp with the head from a Marshall AVT 100, and also using the 120W amp through the inbuilt speaker from the Marshall combo. No surprises which one is best...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzSlpgJkmHI