Can the 6505+ be EQ'd to sound the same as the 6505?

[Gmork]

can the 6505+ be EQ'd to sound the same as the 6505? who has
done this? and were you successfu? how different do the two amps
REALLY sound?. i want to buy the 6505 due to its apparently
more aggressive lowmids sound but have recently found out that
the + version has a 3rd button on the foot switch to switch the
fx loop on/off which makes its very appealing. i dont care about
cleans at all so its just the more aggressive sound im after, but if
i can just eq the 6505+ to sound the same then im completely
sold on the +. im SO torn between the two right now. i dont want
to get one or the other and end up regretting it.
thanks for putting up with my 6505 thread nonsense. and thanks
for any help.

 

[Shask]

The original 5150/6505 has a 2 button footswitch which will also switch the FX loop.

It doesn't switch the crunch switch like the +.

 

[JeffHenneman]

No, not from my experience. I will elaborate though.
My old band, which have started to jam again, put the two amps thru there paces years ago as well as recently. When we first got together years ago I settled on the 5150 for my tone. At the time I wasn't a big fan of the 5150 but it worked well with our sound and complimented the lead guitar players tone. I was using the rhythm channel and it was really aggressive sounding. So as we started to write more complex songs we decided to have me do some leads to change it up.
I tried and tried to get a good lead tone out of the 5150 but I couldn't get one with out messing up my rhythm tone. Basically I had to compromise one sound or the other. I tried a lot of things, eq in the loop, eq in front of the amp, various boost pedals, but could get it right.
After a lot of reading on various forums, I decided to get a 5150ii so I had both channels with separate tone controls. I immediately found the lead tone I wanted from the lead channel. But the rhythm tone was not the same between the two amps. The II had way less gain and a different voicing. We tried and tried to get that rhythm channel up to par with the regular version of the amp. Just couldn't get it there.
Then I went thru a phase of trying different amps but kept going back to the 5150 series. Eventually I just used two heads, 5150 rhythm channel and 5150ii lead channel.
Now that we started to jam again, we went thru another trial and error phase and went back to me using both amps.
The 5150/6505 just has the low end push and agression that the ii/+ version does not. On the flip side of that comparison, the ii/+ version is a lot tighter than the original version. In fact I dont ever use a boost to tighten up the low end on the + version.
One observation that really sticks out in my mind from running an eq in the loop to get that low mid growl. It makes the sound some how artificial. It was weird, but I was trying for a very specific tone. Plus we were running both amps thru the same cab, so we could easily pick out what the differences were.
We know what works for our sound and we love it, so we are stuck with me using 2 amps with a amp switcher.
Can you describe what sound your after, maybe list a few bands with similar sounds.
Do you need two completely separate channels?

 

[KailM]

It's very subjective. I haven't spent much time with the non-plus versions, but I have played them. I own a 6505+ 112 (converted to a head) and play it through a 412 cab loaded with Eminence Swamp Thangs/Governors crossed. I've also played the 120 watt head version of the 6505+. I've always been able to get plenty of low-end/low mids for my ears, especially with an MXR 10-band in the loop. I mean I can get so much that I definitely don't need to use the full-range of adjustment out of my EQ, because then it's too much low-end. To me, it sounds natural and organic -- like the amp's original tone only on steroids. But I suppose if you got too aggressive with the EQ you could mess up a good thing. Also, all of the 6505+s I've tried had more than enough gain for death metal with their preamp gain at "4." Suffice it to say, having "enough gain" is not really an issue regardless of whether you go with the plus or non-plus.

I really want to buy an old 5150 or 6505 (non-plus) to compare to my 6505+ -- I just don't have the funds currently. The tone I get now is plain awesome for high-gain brootz, I have trouble imagining it getting much better.

 

[TheWarAgainstTime]

The original 5150/6505 has a 2 button footswitch which will also switch the FX loop.

It doesn't switch the crunch switch like the +.

This

 

[MASS DEFECT]

Probably not. The 6505 is bigger/rawer sounding and has more bass than the 6505+. The + is much tighter sounding and has more upper mids. But you can mod the 6505+ to have the 6505 lead tone.

 

[Sepultorture]

^ this

or get a 6505

 

[Gmork]

ok so the 6505 has more bass/low mids......but cant i just use my mxr 10 band in the loop to bring those freqs up more and achieve the same sound? i already know that they are a bit diffferent tonally, im just wondering if the 6505+ can sound like the 6505 using an EQ pedal.

 

[MASS DEFECT]

I guess you could get some of the 6505 low mids with a 6 band eq in the loop of the 6505+. But that would be just half the battle. The 6505 has a looser attack compared to the tighter 6505+. So it's spongy thick vs crunchy tight. Down to personal taste, really. I personally like the tighter 6505+.

And the separate clean channel and crunch channel is just as important for me.

 

[Sepultorture]

with an EQ in the loop you can get close i guess, but not all the way, as stated, the amp has it's own inherit character and tonality to it that's really down to it's components, an eq will give you more bass and low mids but won't give you the characteristics that the regular 6505 has

 

[JeffHenneman]

ok so the 6505 has more bass/low mids......but cant i just use my mxr 10 band in the loop to bring those freqs up more and achieve the same sound? i already know that they are a bit diffferent tonally, im just wondering if the 6505+ can sound like the 6505 using an EQ pedal.

Have you played either of these two amps?
You said you don't need a clean, but do you need a separate rhythm and lead channels?
Reason I ask these questions is if you have not played a 5150/6505; how will you know what tone you are chasing with an eq in the loop?

If you don't need separate channels, I say go with 5150/6505. You already said you want aggressive and they deliver that easily. They are pretty cheap new and used so I say go that route.

with an EQ in the loop you can get close i guess, but not all the way, as stated, the amp has it's own inherit character and tonality to it that's really down to it's components, an eq will give you more bass and low mids but won't give you the characteristics that the regular 6505 has

This is a perfect answer for you right here. If you want that 5150 flavor with more versatility go the ii/+ route. I will say a big part of the difference is how the gain voicing and eq react to each other.
What it boils down to is it is all in the "feel" of the amp. It has a little more sag in the low end. What I like so much about the 6505+ is it is tight without needing a boost. I think that factor is what may keep it from getting that 5150 aggressiveness it is known for.
One bit of advice if you go the ii/+ route. If you throw an eq in the loop, don't just boost up the lower frequencies. If you cut the freq that the ii/+ has more of, you will get closer to the 5150 voicing.
You could also put an eq in the front and boost some lows to get some of that sag back, but now your running two eq. It may turn into feedback city.