Chinese Fakemachine build thread

[Konfyouzd]

People say not to buy Antoniotsai basses too. I snagged a 7 string fretted Ritter copy from him. It plays fine. The electronics suck, but are usable and the finish just isn't super nice. I had to do some sanding and oiling myself, but other than that it *was* quite playable and it didn't have a single rough fret end. And I've known Ibanez to send me some rough fret ends from time to time...

For what it's worth, I paid $700 for it. I've seen them as low as $400 but the specs appear to be different. I actually contacted them and asked if they'll do a purple flame topped fretless one with a maple board. They said they'd do it for the same price I bought this one for and I'm tempted to do it.

I think this might turn out playable just not perfect in finish.

 

[mortbopet]

I have less of a concern about them copying the Blackmachine and more of a concern of you getting what you pay for. I'm not sure how you could even buy the parts for that price, much less any labor profit.

At that price the labor might not even be legal or even voluntary.

I'm pretty sure that the workers are working close to, if not below, the minimum wage in china.
When thinking about it - and i'm only speaking for my self and my own reasoning -, i wonder how zzound is able to sell a cheap ibanez GRX20Z for only 150$. Ibanez GRX20Z Electric Guitar, Jewel Blue, which is made in China.
The main argument for that is, that they have a much bigger factory and are capable of mass production. But you still need to consider the fact, that the profit margin still has to include both zzound as a retailer and reseller and ibanez as a corporation.
My guitar is bought through a middle man, but technically straight from the factory, meaning that besides the factory itself (labour, materials etc.), only the middleman will be looking for a profit.

Even if the guitar is good, that still doesn't make the process recommendable. Guitars get siezed, lost, broken, and/or arrive unplayable and unfixable.

Microphonic pups, broken truss rods, sharp uneven frets, corkscrew necks, and broken guitars are pretty much par for the course. If you get a good one, it doesn't change that it's a crap shoot every time you order. Using the guise of "taking one for the team" is laughable, as these Chinese replicas are pretty well documented on YouTube and all around the internet. Call it what it is; a desperate attempt at getting something you thought was impossible to get before due to price/time issues. ...

Well, in a way, i cant argue against you. I think its inherently human to look for justification when doing a risky investment, this being buying stocks, buying a house or in this case taking a long shot with a chinese guitar.
For me, it's up to the reader to consider this thread either a justification of my own unwillingness to just realise that no matter what, im going to recieve a sub-par guitar - or consider it an exciting/terrifying/strange read about how ordering these guitars, how they are produced and how the final product will be.
I may have phrased it wrong when i wrote "taking one for the team". That team certainly is not ss.org as a whole, but instead those people who like me - after reading and viewing countless reports of broken necks, bad craftmanship and generally terrible instruments - still think that they are the ones who's going to recieve that one "good" guitar, because they might be able to convince the reseller about doing an extra good job on quality control etc. (I'm pretty sure that the dude which im talking to, doesn't ever get to see the finished guitar.).

 

[Hollowway]

Everybody that buys these says they're doing it as research for the rest of us. But there are oodles of people on here that have bought them. Some come out ok, others are completely unplayable. I think it's fine to buy one, but I get irritated when people say they're doing it just to see, so that we can all know. We already do know!

At any rate, I hope it comes out ok, because you've specced it out exactly the way I would! Looks awesome!

 

[GraemeH]

With these Aliexpress/DHgate etc guitars, I'd only say go ahead if;
1. You've budgeted to replace all the hardware (pots, pickups, at least the saddles possible the whole bridge), nut and tuners.
2. You're well capable of set up work yourself - fret leveling and re-crowning included.

But having said that, the same is true for buying a £150-£300 guitar from a big name manufacturer, it's not exclusive to the Chinese copies. Hell, I had to do all that on a £600 Ibanez to get it "right".

The only way a guitar would be "unsalvagable" is if it was a set neck that wasn't at nearly the right angle (if it's a bolt-on you can re-finish the pocket yourself), or if the truss rod bolt is stripped so you can't set it up.
I would also be wary of giving specific higher-end spec to them to build to - i.e. bone nut and ebony fretboard. If it's cheaper and they can get away with it, they'll use something that looks enough like bone and black stained rosewood instead and increase their profit margin a bit.

Someone mentioned customs seizures - that's only going to happen if there's a brand on it, or if it's a super recognizable shape like a Les Paul. I'd always recommend to people to request no logo (or a custom logo) from the manufacturer so there's no legal or moral issue.

If you're willing and capable of all that, you can get some guitars that play decently and look fantastic for their cost.

Side-note; I find it amusing that a fake coming from China is called a "fake", but a fake made in 'murica, like Slash's Les Paul, is called a "replica". Food for racist thought.

 

[mortbopet]

With these Aliexpress/DHgate etc guitars, I'd only say go ahead if;
1. You've budgeted to replace all the hardware (pots, pickups, at least the saddles possible the whole bridge), nut and tuners.
2. You're well capable of set up work yourself - fret leveling and re-crowning included.

But having said that, the same is true for buying a £150-£300 guitar from a big name manufacturer, it's not exclusive to the Chinese copies. Hell, I had to do all that on a £600 Ibanez to get it "right".

The only way a guitar would be "unsalvagable" is if it was a set neck that wasn't at nearly the right angle (if it's a bolt-on you can re-finish the pocket yourself), or if the truss rod bolt is stripped so you can't set it up.

Someone mentioned customs seizures - that's only going to happen if there's a brand on it, or if it's a super recognizable shape like a Les Paul. I'd always recommend to people to request no logo (or a custom logo) from the manufacturer so there's no legal or moral issue.

If you're willing and capable of all that, you can get some guitars that play decently and look fantastic for their cost.

Side-note; I find it amusing that a fake coming from China is called a "fake", but a fake made in 'murica, like Slash's Les Paul, is called a "replica". Food for racist thought.

Thats pretty much my point. I'm ready and prepared to do alot of work on it myself when it arrives. I'd never buy a set neck guitar from one of these sellers, since most of the "horror stories" are based upon set neck guitars where the joint has failed during shipping. There is not nearly as many accounts of broken bolt-on necks.

 

[Marchpip]

thanks for your answer. definately looking forward to some updates. Do you know how much taxes you will have to pay?

 

[mortbopet]

thanks for your answer. definately looking forward to some updates. Do you know high much taxes you will have to pay?

That's a tough question to answer, and it all depends on if, and how much they value the guitar at.
As far as i know, the seller will mark it as a gift and value it around 50-100$. But my experience with the Danish customs service has so far been, that they ain't stupid . So i'm expecting to pay full duty and tax.

Let's say it gets valued at the purchase price of 390$.
VAT is 25% in Denmark (19% in Germany if i recall correctly) and duty for guitars importet to Denmark is 3.7%

Calculating with duty's first and then VAT from that:
390+390*3.7%= $404
404+404*25%= $505 = €437

But i'm ofcourse hoping that they don't value it at that. Since it will contain no serial number or backplate to identify it, it's basically just a "brandless" guitar.

 

[vansinn]

It'll be interesting to see the finished product - and moreover, audio/video for the verdict

My two sets of negative pants would be: why so keen on shopping copycats, and why this love relationship with sub-$too-little-for-real-value

 

[Hollowway]

Oh wow, Slash's LPs aren't built by Gibson? Who builds his guitars?

 

[Hollowway]

My bad. Carry on!

 

[Chokey Chicken]

With these Aliexpress/DHgate etc guitars, I'd only say go ahead if;
1. You've budgeted to replace all the hardware (pots, pickups, at least the saddles possible the whole bridge), nut and tuners.
2. You're well capable of set up work yourself - fret leveling and re-crowning included.

But having said that, the same is true for buying a £150-£300 guitar from a big name manufacturer, it's not exclusive to the Chinese copies. Hell, I had to do all that on a £600 Ibanez to get it "right".

The only way a guitar would be "unsalvagable" is if it was a set neck that wasn't at nearly the right angle (if it's a bolt-on you can re-finish the pocket yourself), or if the truss rod bolt is stripped so you can't set it up.
I would also be wary of giving specific higher-end spec to them to build to - i.e. bone nut and ebony fretboard. If it's cheaper and they can get away with it, they'll use something that looks enough like bone and black stained rosewood instead and increase their profit margin a bit.

Someone mentioned customs seizures - that's only going to happen if there's a brand on it, or if it's a super recognizable shape like a Les Paul. I'd always recommend to people to request no logo (or a custom logo) from the manufacturer so there's no legal or moral issue.

If you're willing and capable of all that, you can get some guitars that play decently and look fantastic for their cost.

Side-note; I find it amusing that a fake coming from China is called a "fake", but a fake made in 'murica, like Slash's Les Paul, is called a "replica". Food for racist thought.

I'm with you right up until the end section. Anything that resembles a Les Paul is a knock off/replica of an American guitar. For instance, Chinese epiphone LP's are replica/knock offs of the Gibson USA alternative the same way Korean Agile's, LTD's, and countless other brands have them.

Perhaps I missed something though. Did some non-Gibson company make a guitar with the Gibson logo, fake serial number, and no artist permission?

 

[GraemeH]

Yup, exactly as you said in the last sentence - Slash's famous yellow "AFD Les Paul" was a replica/fake of a '59 'Paul made by a California luthier, not Gibson, but with the Gibson logos on it. The same as these Chinese guitars come with Gibson logos on them.

Of course, much later he got the Gibson artist hookups and signature model so now most of his Les Pauls are Gibson made, but the original "AFD Les Paul", which people refer to as a "replica", rather more flatteringly than a "fake", isn't.

Here are a few sources;
’59 Les Paul replica built by Kris Derrig | Slash's World
The Legend of Slash
Welcome to the Kris Derrig Fan Site
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.151998278198816.37807.151834768215167

etc.

 

[Hollowway]

Yup, exactly as you said in the last sentence - Slash's famous yellow "AFD Les Paul" was a replica/fake of a '59 'Paul made by a California luthier, not Gibson, but with the Gibson logos on it. The same as these Chinese guitars come with Gibson logos on them.

Of course, much later he got the Gibson artist hookups and signature model so now most of his Les Pauls are Gibson made, but the original "AFD Les Paul", which people refer to as a "replica", rather more flatteringly than a "fake", isn't.

Here are a few sources;
’59 Les Paul replica built by Kris Derrig | Slash's World
The Legend of Slash
Welcome to the Kris Derrig Fan Site
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.151998278198816.37807.151834768215167

etc.

Well, I stand corrected! You're right - that SHOULD count as a fake, not a replica. Putting the Gibson logo on it pretty much sealed the deal.
Thanks for correcting me on that. I had no idea. The More You Know!

 

[Chokey Chicken]

Yup, exactly as you said in the last sentence - Slash's famous yellow "AFD Les Paul" was a replica/fake of a '59 'Paul made by a California luthier, not Gibson, but with the Gibson logos on it. The same as these Chinese guitars come with Gibson logos on them.

Of course, much later he got the Gibson artist hookups and signature model so now most of his Les Pauls are Gibson made, but the original "AFD Les Paul", which people refer to as a "replica", rather more flatteringly than a "fake", isn't.

Here are a few sources;
’59 Les Paul replica built by Kris Derrig | Slash's World
The Legend of Slash
Welcome to the Kris Derrig Fan Site
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.151998278198816.37807.151834768215167

etc.

Yeah, that's ....ed. It's marked as something it's not, and therefore is just as much a fake as any of these other Chinese ones.

 

[Rusty_Tambourine]

Really interested to see how this turns out - I'm a Southpaw, so guitar options from established companies can still be limited without turning to custom orders. My only experience of 'click-and-hope' has been with an Agile 8 string which, on reflection was a great guitar to play - but I never melded with. I sold it for a big loss, but it went to a good home. Other was a Thomann ESP/LTD EC-1000 - which is now my main guitar which you will prise from my dead hands. Good luck, and look forward to a review.

 

[katsusand]

I played that "Chinamachine" guitar.
That's very heavy...(over 3.5kg I think)
And heard from owner that had a some very big problem.
Plugs are suck and very difficult to pull.
But this B6 copy... GOOOOOOOOOOOOD

 

[Hollowway]

So what is the attraction to a Chinese BM copy? The looks? As I understand it, the reason everyone likes Blackmachines is that they have superior cuts of wood and really good construction, so they play really well. Obviously you're not going to get that in a Chinese copy. But they will look the same, so I'm assuming that's what it's about?

 

[M3CHK1LLA]

At least it'll be better than an Etherial.

and unlike a brj, you may actually receive a guitar...


good luck with this.

 

[Steinmetzify]

Screw it man, I for one say thanks. It shows and it's playable and you love it? Throw it in the Poverty Rig thread so we can know. Subbed and good luck!

 

[Prophetable]

Screw it man, I for one say thanks. It shows and it's playable and you love it? Throw it in the Poverty Rig thread so we can know. Subbed and good luck!

I'm with you on this one. I feel like there is a real tendency to get snobbish about every little thing in the guitar world. I hope it turns out well and only requires a minimum of touch-up.