asher
So Did We
The only ass I would expect to put into a $400 Ibby or Jackson is some pickups and maybe a fret job
Chinese Fakemachine build thread
- Thread starter mortbopet
- Start date
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The only ass I would expect to put into a $400 Ibby or Jackson is some pickups and maybe a fret job
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Le Jeff
Well-Known Member
Sometimes I see threads where I don't really understand the OPs motivations and/or reasoning. I like to go into those threads and tell everyone that I just don't understand and I'll try and shove my logic down everybody's throat too. No wait, that's exactly wrong - I just don't post in those threads.
This thread would be 3-4 pages long if it weren't for all the people who don't jive with this kind of thing having to have their two cents. It's kinda sad in a way...
This thread would be 3-4 pages long if it weren't for all the people who don't jive with this kind of thing having to have their two cents. It's kinda sad in a way...
guidothepimmp
Well-Known Member
I like hipshot and have 2 guits with the hipshot bridges, but have to admit that with my playing position the sharp end of the saddle always digs into my hand when muting.. not a deal breaker, just something i noted.. point is hipshot is not above these issues
Demiurge
Well-Known Member
To be fair, I think that people on this board try to look out for one another and that seems to be mostly the intent here. Nobody wants to see an unhappy NGD, but at the same time there are a variety of "bugaboos": the relative-unknown custom builder, the China-built copy, and the deal that seems too good to be true for the money- all of which we have seen people burned-on before. That it is a Blackmachine-style guitar will also get some sort attention, though I think that aspect of the discussion invariably illustrates that BM is probably the worst example when arguing the "false economy" of another guitar.
ThatCanadianGuy
Where am I? D:
To be fair, I think that people on this board try to look out for one another and that seems to be mostly the intent here. Nobody wants to see an unhappy NGD, but at the same time there are a variety of "bugaboos": the relative-unknown custom builder, the China-built copy, and the deal that seems too good to be true for the money- all of which we have seen people burned-on before. That it is a Blackmachine-style guitar will also get some sort attention, though I think that aspect of the discussion invariably illustrates that BM is probably the worst example when arguing the "false economy" of another guitar.
I can respect that, until it gets to the point of snobbery. Japan was the joke a number of years ago, then Korea, and now China. From what I've seen recently, it seems the biggest joke manufacturing-wise these days is the US.
Judging from the body shape, jack placement & plate and neck (to me, that seems to be a scarf joint), this doesn't seem to be from the same seller or factory as discussed in this thread. Do you have any further information about the manufacturor of this guitar?
Chokey Chicken
mouth breather
This thread wouldn't exist at all if nobody gave their two cents, so what's your point? Should we just have a giant ass pat fest as we watch our fellow musicians potentially skipping into a mine field? No thanks. This is also pretending that these places are legit businesses. There's nothing inherently wrong with buying Chinese guitars, but when it's a place that's using shady business practices without the safety of being covered by said company, there's no reason not to warn people that they're sticking their fingers into a bear trap.
The fact remains that if something is potentially dumb, you warn people against it. This thread alone has several people considering putting their hands in the trap. Doesn't really help that I've been personally burned on one of these Chinese things. 300-400 bucks is only "not that much" if you get a playable instrument coming out the other end. If you gain nothing, then 300-400 is no small amount.
Le Jeff
Well-Known Member
The very first chunk of words in this thread read: "DISCLAIMER: i am quite confident that alot of you guys probably don't condone buying replica/copy guitars. I too think it's immoral but the fact is that i will never ever be able to afford a true blackmachine. I took this as an adventure - for the good and the bad which comes with it."
Warning the informed is basically pointless. He knows what he's getting himself into. Also seems unlikely that anybody reading this thread who's potentially interested gives a flying f*** about just how fall short of a real BM these ChinaMachines will fall. A BM costs how much? 3-4k? There's no way they're $2600-3600 better. When you buy a BM you're deep into the "diminishing returns" territory and you're basically doing it because you wanna post on forums and show off. It's pretty telling when these uber-expensive guitars get bought and then sold on forums months after their initial purchase to fund something else. Yesterday's "best guitar I've ever played" is tomorrow's ticket to the next must-have axe.
Warning the informed is basically pointless. He knows what he's getting himself into. Also seems unlikely that anybody reading this thread who's potentially interested gives a flying f*** about just how fall short of a real BM these ChinaMachines will fall. A BM costs how much? 3-4k? There's no way they're $2600-3600 better. When you buy a BM you're deep into the "diminishing returns" territory and you're basically doing it because you wanna post on forums and show off. It's pretty telling when these uber-expensive guitars get bought and then sold on forums months after their initial purchase to fund something else. Yesterday's "best guitar I've ever played" is tomorrow's ticket to the next must-have axe.
Hollowway
Extended Ranger
Le Jeff, you seriously need to switch to decaf!
No one is attacking you personally, but you're acting like it. If you want to hang out only with people who agree with you 100%, turn off your computer and go sit with your mom.No one is disputing BMs costing a lot, and no one is claiming that the fakemachine will be the same quality as the BM. The big issue here is whether the $400 will be wasted money. And given that there have been numerous times other people have ordered Chinese fakes and gotten burned, it seems like a legitimate concern.
And call the BM forearm contour "unique" and the HS "fancy" all you want, but Doug still said the Blackmachine is a metal guitar stripped of all of the usual adornments you see on high end guitars. I hardly think a completely flat topped gutiar with a simple roundover bit bevel is a difficult thing to manufacture. To me, the $400 seems high for what you get. And it's not fair to compare your Indo RG to this. Indo RGs are a known quantity with a reputation of a known quality.
I get the comparison of a Lambo body on a Fiero, using the lesser car as a modding platform. But a fair comparison would be to buy a sight-unseen Chinese car, or a Tata or something, and using that as a modding platform. The issue is that Chinese fakes have a reputation of being unmoddable, and unusable. This builder is different, so who knows, but the issue is not whether buying a cheap guitar is worth modding, or whether it is more affordable than the actual thing. It's whether buying this guitar will prove to be a waste of money or not.
I guess I just don't know why you're being so defensive about anyone discussing this.
Prophetable
Prophet For Profit
It's not defensive to wonder why the same 3 or 4 people need to reply over and over again negatively in another person's topic about something they're spending their own money on.
geofreesun
Well-Known Member
you are right, these two photos are coming from a well-known maker who charges significantly more. he does more than just BM replicas. these replicas usually have quality parts such as hipshot, BKP, sperzel, ivoroid binding etc, all at a cost of course. he builds fantastic guitars actually, i have friends who bought/played guitars from his shop. i don't think he is on aliexpress though, you can certainly find more info on his weibo (chinese twitter)
Chokey Chicken
mouth breather
'Tis how debates and conversation in general works. Person "A" says something, person "B" says information as to why that might not be a good idea. Person "C" comes in and tries to validate the actions of person "A." Person "B" explains why person "C's" reasons are silly. Person "D" gets uppity towards person "B" for sharing concern for some reason.
Those 3 or 4 people (I assume I'm one of them) reply, because they're replied to. Or somebody says something else that can be responded to.
You called it snobbish. I don't see what's so snobbish about recommending to avoid a very realistic risk. If OP gets and enjoys the axe, which I'm rooting for, I would never belittle them. Just as I would never belittle them for rocking out on a first act, or any other budget brand. Hell, most of what I play would be considered trash by a lot of people here. All I'm saying, and have been saying, is that there is a huge unnecessary risk. People have tried justifying with "well, use it as a mod platform." You can't use it as a mod platform if it's ....ing broken, siezed, lost, or whatever else might happen that's out of OP's control. It's too late now, and I'm just as curious as everybody else with how it turns out, but pretending like anyone against the idea is just an elitist cock sucker who's being a dick just to be a dick is insulting and quite frankly way off base.
Prophetable
Prophet For Profit
This is a post showing those of us that are interested a product that he's already decided to buy. It's his time, his money, and his choice. Why does this strike you as a debate?
Chokey Chicken said:
I didn't say that being against the idea is what makes you "an elitist cock sucker." I am, however, saying that choosing to come be a turd in someone else's punch bowl to give yourself some sense of righteous gratification might be what makes you one.
Le Jeff
Well-Known Member
I need to switch to decaf because I post on a forum? uh...Le Jeff, you seriously need to switch to decaf!
No one is disputing BMs costing a lot, and no one is claiming that the fakemachine will be the same quality as the BM. The big issue here is whether the $400 will be wasted money. And given that there have been numerous times other people have ordered Chinese fakes and gotten burned, it seems like a legitimate concern.
And call the BM forearm contour "unique" and the HS "fancy" all you want, but Doug still said the Blackmachine is a metal guitar stripped of all of the usual adornments you see on high end guitars. I hardly think a completely flat topped gutiar with a simple roundover bit bevel is a difficult thing to manufacture. To me, the $400 seems high for what you get. And it's not fair to compare your Indo RG to this. Indo RGs are a known quantity with a reputation of a known quality.
I get the comparison of a Lambo body on a Fiero, using the lesser car as a modding platform. But a fair comparison would be to buy a sight-unseen Chinese car, or a Tata or something, and using that as a modding platform. The issue is that Chinese fakes have a reputation of being unmoddable, and unusable. This builder is different, so who knows, but the issue is not whether buying a cheap guitar is worth modding, or whether it is more affordable than the actual thing. It's whether buying this guitar will prove to be a waste of money or not.
I guess I just don't know why you're being so defensive about anyone discussing this.
The point is, you guys seem to feel some deep-seated need to continually inform the rest of us that buying Chinese fakes is a bad idea. We got the idea - you don't condone it. Thanks so much, but if you have no interest in the premise of the thread then why keep coming back? I'm defending the idea because $400 may be a lot to you, it isn't to me. I'm not saying I'd wanna just throw it out a window, but buying what's essentially a guitar with the money hardly seems like a waste. You guys seem to think that needing to put new pickups in or having a tech give it a once over is a major deal breaker. All I can think is that I wanna live where you guys do which must be some magical land where $400 guitars from brick & mortar shops are ready to rip from the second the debit pad says "approved". My "known quantity" Indo RG has had all the same work done that OP's ChinaMachine will - so how am I getting the better deal?
Chokey Chicken
mouth breather
Because it stops being just about OP when he puts links and hypes it up long before he even receives a product. It's already got people itching to throw their money at this potential trash pile.
What righteous gratification? I gain and lose nothing from this. I'm not raining on anyone's parade. OP already said they weren't expecting much. (even if they proceeded to get hyped immediately after.) I mostly have issue with the people trying to say stupid shit like "worst case scenario, it's a mod platform." No, the worst case scenario is that it's a wasted $300-$400+. It's probably in everyone's best interest, including OP's, to wait until he gets the damn thing before they go around hyping it up and getting other people to possibly throw $300+ away.
Yeah, but by hyping up a guitar that hasn't even been seen yet gives countless newcomers the impression that it's a good idea. Somebody who saved up $400 over months or whatever then chooses to buy one of these things instead of something they could return if they don't like, is then burned out of $400 that was a lot to them. Just because you have money to throw around doesn't mean every impressionable kid that frequents these forums does.
Prophetable
Prophet For Profit
mortbopet said:
Good call. That's a lot of hype. Wouldn't want him misinforming everyone.
Chokey Chicken
mouth breather
The biggest problem being is statements like this:
Neither OP, or anyone else defending them, have really acknowledged that sometimes $400 on new parts/finishing after it arrives won't fix what might be wrong. Most horror stories I've heard involved unfixable twisted necks, destroyed truss rods and the like.
It doesn't help that the OP reads like "you can't chew me out because I already did that for you." Despite what OP is saying, I think their expectations are WAY too high. I also think they should have waited until they got the guitar before sharing the guy's info/a link to their store.
It's all whatever though. I've said my piece, and I've nothing else to add. This particular argument is pointless.
OP, I honestly hope it works out for you. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread because I am in fact dreadfully curious. I'd actually like to request that you shoot a video that demos the guitar once you've gotten it.
Lorcan Ward
7slinger
You know some of us buy expensive guitars to actually play because we know every detail will be on point and the only limitation is us the player. You're getting a superior instrument where "diminishing returns" does not apply because you're getting something thats head and shoulders above the majority of hi-end instruments.
Just because a small couple of people go through their guitars quicker than strings doesn't mean everyone else does. Some of us wouldn't sell our prize guitars even if you offered us 10 times what we originally payed.
Le Jeff
Well-Known Member
Who's hyping it up? There have been a few testimonials from ChinaMachine owners saying the guitars are "meh" at best. Do you go to your local guitar shop to bash on employees who suggest a HSS Strat as a good beginner's metal guitar? Maybe you spend your time on ebay trolling for ads where it looks like the guitar is being misrepresented then report the seller?
Maybe just face it... The Chinese fakes thing started before this thread and has sucked in lots of willfully ignorant people and will continue to suck in many more. The OP made it pretty plain that these kinds of axes are normally dogs so he doesn't expect anything. What else needs saying? If someone sees this thread and wants to go spending money overseas then so what? Yes, it hurts Doug at BM when his designs get copied, but you aren't going to do anything about that by posting in a thread on the internet.
