Coiled cables and “tone”

[Bearitone]

Super noob question

I read on a few forums that a coiled or spiral guitar cable changes the “tone” due to capacitance and it just sounds like BS. Is it?

 

[prlgmnr]

I dunno, is it bullshit? Do cables have capacitance? Do different cables have different capacitance? Does capacitance make a difference to tone? If not, why is there a capacitor on your tone pot? What is capacitance anyway?

Find yourself the answers to those questions and you'll know the answer to yours.

 

[budda]

If it does, not enough for most people to care.

 

[diagrammatiks]

It’s not the act of coiling the cable. It’s the fact that a coiled cable is coming to have more cable length then a straight cable.

Absolutely will have an effect depending on the actual length.

 

[guitaardvark]

Super noob question

I read on a few forums that a coiled or spiral guitar cable changes the “tone” due to capacitance and it just sounds like BS. Is it?

True, but is it a negligible amount of capacitance? The easiest way to test the answer to your question would be to buy one of each type of cable, record some playing through each, and compare. I personally sincerely doubt that you'd be able to tell which one is which in a blind A/B test, but you never know.

 

[TheWarAgainstTime]

It’s not the act of coiling the cable. It’s the fact that a coiled cable is coming to have more cable length then a straight cable.

Absolutely will have an effect depending on the actual length.

Exactly this. A 15 foot coil cable will actually have a lot more than 15 feet of copper for your signal to travel through. A lot of guys who play Jazzmasters like coiled cables since those pickups and 1 meg pots put out a super bright sound and the extra cable length helps to combat that with extra capacitance. It's just more manageable to move around a stage with a 15' coil cable than to deal with a regular 30' cable all bunched up and tangled on the floor.

You don't really see coiled cables on metal forums like this since we're generally trying to keep the most possible signal integrity from our guitars to our pedals/amps/modelers, then shape the tone from there with eq controls, different impulses, etc. That top end content is where the djent lives. A lot of people like to use buffers or at least buffered pedals to minimize the effect of cable capacitance with longer runs.

 

[FifthCircleSquared]

This video shows how capacitance from a long cable can cause some treble roll off:

 

[Sogradde]

Depends. Is the cable glossy or satin?

 

[Leviathus]

Curly cords are badass, that's all i know.

 

[DudeManBrother]

Ive read that guys used to run 100’ cables with their Marshall’s to tame the high end. The coil itself is just to make the cable length manageable.

 

[Bearitone]

Oh so, in that case just having a buffer at the beginning of your pedal board solves the high-end roll off issue right?

 

[Strobe]

This is pretty common knowledge, so I am not presenting this as ground breaking, although the thread makes it clear that not everyone is aware of this.

A cable will have a capacitance value. You can think of it as a capacitor. A capacitor in series with a high impedance (think high impedance = passive guitar output, whereas an active pickup or the signal after a buffered pedal would be low impedance) signal will act as a low pass filter. Low pass means it lets more of the lows though - it filters out more of the highs. This make the tone less bright.

If you have two cables of otherwise equal internal construction, the longer one will have a higher capacitance. Since a coiled cable is not just a straight line, it might be actually quite a bit longer than a straight cable that has the same reach. As such, coiled cables tend to be longer in terms of the actual wire. This means they have a higher capacitance, and filter out more of the highs. This could be desirable, or not, depending on your preferences.

 

[spudmunkey]

Oh so, in that case just having a buffer at the beginning of your pedal board solves the high-end roll off issue right?

Exactly right. No. Sort of. Well...it alleviates it, but can have an effect on the tone...and some pedals don't LIKE buffered signals (fuzz, typically)...and not all buffers are created equal...

 

[stevexc]

Oh so, in that case just having a buffer at the beginning of your pedal board solves the high-end roll off issue right?

If you're running a 100' cable into a buffered pedal, you're already losing high end before it hits the buffer.

 

[Bearitone]

If you're running a 100' cable into a buffered pedal, you're already losing high end before it hits the buffer.

Maybe 100’ is a bit extreme lol.

But since we’re there, how do musicians handle long cable runs and high end loss when playing live? I guess that’s where a line driver comes in?

 

[laxu]

Maybe 100’ is a bit extreme lol.

But since we’re there, how do musicians handle long cable runs and high end loss when playing live? I guess that’s where a line driver comes in?

That's where buffers in pedals and wireless units come in. If you need your guitar cable to be long then just buy a very low capacitance one.

 

[Mike]

Maybe 100’ is a bit extreme lol.

But since we’re there, how do musicians handle long cable runs and high end loss when playing live? I guess that’s where a line driver comes in?

Active pickups

 

[spudmunkey]

But since we’re there, how do musicians handle long cable runs and high end loss when playing live? I guess that’s where a line driver comes in?

In a live situation with huge stages, you're also talking about huge volumes, where subtlety and nuance isn't as much of a priority as it would be in, say, a studio environment where you chase SNR and every whisper and breath is apparent. What can't be helped with a buffer can often be tweaked to "close enough" with EQ.

 

[budda]

Maybe 100’ is a bit extreme lol.

But since we’re there, how do musicians handle long cable runs and high end loss when playing live? I guess that’s where a line driver comes in?

Easy. Dont have long cable runs.

 

[LiveOVErdrive]

Maybe 100’ is a bit extreme lol.

But since we’re there, how do musicians handle long cable runs and high end loss when playing live? I guess that’s where a line driver comes in?

Petrucci's current sig has an active preamp in it specifically for this reason. According to him anyway. I think it has like 20db of gain too or something too.