Correlating Nature and Music

[bigswifty]

I'm beginning to write a new set of songs and began to wonder if others think similarly to how I do with regards to music and relating it to images, nature etc. Think of how people relate minor harmony to sadness and major harmony to joy..

I like to write with mental imagery in mind, and then try and select notes and phrases which encompass the mood, colours, qualities etc. of the theme.

Do any of you do this? How do you write? Do you ever think "this sounds like water" or "this sounds like red"?

If yes:

- What tonal relationships (scales/modes/progressions) do you find illustrate certain things?
- How would you go about putting them to music?

If no:

- How do you perceive things in this sense?

_________________________________________________

My case involves the "elements" - earth, wind, water, fire.

Dorian can give a very earthy vibe to me, because of it's ties to Gaelic folk music and their history, or so I think. This very same mode can give tension and relief, which sort of correlates to the balance of nature.

Wind changes directions and speed, so free form, care free styling is suitable. Not quite sure how tonality could come into this, but perhaps it would be all over the place given its theme. It also feels happier.

Water is always flowing, and very malleable. Legato phrasing and moving shapes help define this for me. Also the fact that it is in all of us, giving it a universal feel, inspirational and enigmatic at the same time.

Fire is power and passion and destruction. Heavier music, but also driven, focused, and curious.. Aeolian and Phrygian both seem to hold more influence over this for me.

What do you guys think? Am I crazy?
Mr. Noodles and co., care to help me out here?

 

[Dayn]

I don't really think that way. For me, it's not so much the notes being used, but how it's arranged.

When I want something airy (which is most of the time) the orchestration has a lot of open space and is generally around 105bpm, nothing too frantic. There might be sub bass rumbling while light, clean mid-range guitar plays above it, with high lilting piano or synth above it.

That's a lot of what I write anyway, being airy. I guess some can be called 'earthy' when I play modally, evoking more of an old folk music vibe. That's really it. I just try to evoke an atmosphere when I write - whatever reminds me of the atmosphere is generally how I write it.

Though I don't find it helpful to call some scales and keys 'happy' or 'sad'. As some examples:

• I find major to be saccharine. The major 7th is the culprit: it's too... predictable, I guess? Like 'Baby's First Resolution' by Fisher Price. If I play in a major key, I don't give the major 7th much play. It gets used when necessary, but it can get too cheesy for me pretty quickly.
• So I prefer mixolydian. A lot of my music is modal rather than tonal, so mixolydian gets a lot of use when I want a major key, but prefer a minor 7th instead of a major 7th. It's perfect having that rounded 7th.
• Similarly, minor is not 'sad'. The focus on minor thirds in the main chords sounds less tense to me. It's a chill key. It can do most things, but isn't so in-your-face about it like major is.
• Not too much of a fan of dorian. That major 6th is just try-hard to me. Never been able to really gel with this mode as I can with mixolydian.
• Locrian is just... when I'm at that point, I don't give a toss about overall tonality. I'm using dissonant intervals for the effect of it, so I don't care about it's intervals.
• Lydian is more as if major went balls-to-the-wall. That augmented 4th can give a lot of interesting dissonance in what would be a glurgy major key.
• Phrygian is just Spanish. I got nothing against it. Don't really use it. Prefer minor, and using harmonic/melodic minor for cadences when appropriate.

Just some examples.

 

[TelegramSam]

They way you think of modes is nice, but remember that there are countless scales and modes all with different feels and different moods. Try some of the modes of the harmonic and melodic minor scales to find new toys to play with, and to inspire different licks and sounds.

Remember also that if you are telling a story, the music needs to change as the story progresses. If you want to think about it theory-wise, I guess instead of thinking "what mode should I use for this song", think maybe "what mode would sound better in this part of the song?".

I'm writing some stuff at the moment, a sort of concept piece, and I guess the way I write relates to this, but to be honest, I just try things that sound cool to me and see where I can use them.

 

[Aion]

I'll usually go with a more objective, theory-based idea for something like this. It's usually easy for someone to pick up on and it's a little. Of course, my composition teacher once said I lacked sentimentality, and I think me having no subjective opinion of modes that I find valuable is a symptom of that. Anyway, here's what I might do:

Earth would probably be more static. The dynamic level would stay mostly the same and harmonic rhythm would be very slow. Chord changes would be based off of very tight voice leading. This would allow for some interesting musical ideas in the harmony while being a kind of musical metaphor for continental drift. The melody would probably have a lower-mid starting point and an overall downward contour to represent going underground.

Wind would have a melody that would go up and down. A lot of taking a melody and changing register in unexpected places. Fast harmonic rhythm. It would mostly be in higher registers. Dynamics would also change a lot.

Water I'm definitely with you on the legato phrasing. Melodic contour would start higher up and wind its way lower. Maybe a different section of really big, fast downward arpeggios to be like a waterfall. Harmonic rhythm would change, but I'd probably do something tonal because of the way tonal chord movement pushes your ear towards the next place it's going. Dynamics would follow the harmonic rhythm, louder=faster.

Fire would have a limited melodic range for the most part, going upwards and then going back to the starting point. Harmonic rhythm would be consistently fast. At some point it would become extremely energetic, moving all over the register, lots of pinch harmonics, and slowly it would be brought back down and either have a faux fade out or an actual fade out ending to show an out of control fire slowly being put out.

 

[Mr. Big Noodles]

I'm beginning to write a new set of songs and began to wonder if others think similarly to how I do with regards to music and relating it to images, nature etc. Think of how people relate minor harmony to sadness and major harmony to joy..

I like to write with mental imagery in mind, and then try and select notes and phrases which encompass the mood, colours, qualities etc. of the theme.

Do any of you do this? How do you write? Do you ever think "this sounds like water" or "this sounds like red"?

One's opinion of "X musical device = Y emotional or cognitive effect" is just that: an opinion. However, I don't think that there is anything wrong in succumbing to magic and mysticism in music. I personally try to stay clear of that sort of thing, if possible, but music as a human expression inevitably encompasses everything that humans can express, and we need symbols in order to accomplish that. Music has a history of being woven into literature and itself having a literary component, so symbolism and metaphor are also a natural part of the art. If somebody says "write me some music about this river," then you need to find a way to portray that object in sound. Actually, let's look at that.

Franz Schubert - Die Schöne Müllerin - 19. Der Müller und der Bach


This song is a dialogue between a miller ("Der Müller") and the brook ("Der Bach"). When we get to the brook's side of the conversation (1:19), it is accompanied by an arpeggiated figuration in a major key. The rhythm is worth noting: the song is in a slow 3.

Richard Wagner - Das Rheingold


This opera opens in the Rhine (the bigass river that runs through Germany and a few other countries), which, hey, is represented through about a million measures of E♭ major, arpeggios, and slow 6 (related to 3), which picks up speed and current thanks to a zillion overlapping parts and the process of rhythmic diminution.

Is this the universal musical language for rivers and other bodies of fresh water? Not really. You can find those elements completely separate from that context. Is that sort of text painting common? You bet your buns, especially in 19th century German music. I wouldn't be surprised if you could find 50 more German Romantic pieces about rivers that all do the exact same thing.

My case involves the "elements" - earth, wind, water, fire.

Why not these elements? You'd have more options.

Dorian can give a very earthy vibe to me, because of it's ties to Gaelic folk music and their history, or so I think.

In the Book of Invasions (Lebor Gabála Érenn), the Dagda is described using his harp to make magical music that either inspires joy and laughter (geantraí), sorrow and tears (goltraí), or sleep (suantraí). Gearóid Ó hAllmhuráin says that strings of brass, silver, and iron are responsible for each respective state. I assume that the Dagda was wicked fast at changing strings and had an endorsement from D'Addario, because he uses all three moods back to back.

Anyway, I don't know the historical significance of the modes used in Irish and Scottish music (major, mixolydian, minor, dorian), though I've seen it suggested that heptatonic scales are relatively recent developments in those national styles, probably coming from foreign European influence (don't forget that the British have been occupying Ireland since 1169). Traditional music has a high mutation rate, since it is transmitted orally and is left open to individual interpretation by design.

This very same mode can give tension and relief, which sort of correlates to the balance of nature.

Every mode is equal in its ability to do this. That's tonality. In fact, you don't even need a mode in order to create tension and relief.

Speaking of elemental stuff and modes, Pythagoras had some weird ideas. Basically, there were four temperaments in ancient Greek psycho-medical quack theory: phlegmatic (water), choleric (fire), sanguine (air), and melancholic (earth). And, uh-oh, there were also four musical modes: dorian, phrygian, lydian, and mixolydian. I smell a big steaming pile of numerology coming up. The idea is that you can affect these four "humors" with music by applying the appropriate mode. Apparently the use of a mode or its plagal mode have different effects on the same humor. Why not? Of course, esoteric nutbags cling onto this stuff like a fly on poop, hence the tone of the linked material.

I think this guy gets derailed when he starts talking about free improvisation, but the article up to that point is worth a read.

I made this thread some time ago, discussing a certain historical interpretation of keys and their characteristics: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/mu...es/258610-affective-characteristics-keys.html

 

[celticelk]

In the Book of Invasions (Lebor Gabála Érenn), the Dagda is described using his harp to make magical music that either inspires joy and laughter (geantraí), sorrow and tears (goltraí), or sleep (suantraí). Gearóid Ó hAllmhuráin says that strings of brass, silver, and iron are responsible for each respective state. I assume that the Dagda was wicked fast at changing strings and had an endorsement from D'Addario, because he uses all three moods back to back.

There's a triple-strung harp in the Welsh tradition (Triple harp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), so maybe that's what Gearóid had in mind. Anyway, points for the Dagda reference!

 

[Mr. Big Noodles]

Wow, cool instrument.



However, I see some problems with that theory: the Welsh triple harp, according to that Wikipedia article, originated in Italy and was brought to the British Isles in the 16th century. Lebor Gabála Érenn was compiled in the 11th century and describes Ireland's ancient and mythical past, so the chronology doesn't quite match up. Besides, the triple harp is a chromatic instrument; the chromatic scale is a continental European innovation.

I'm somehow reminded of this:



I do wonder how that would have worked out, though. I'm not terribly familiar with Irish music history or that of the harp, for that matter.

 

[FRETPICK]

"this sounds like red"?

Fact Of The Day.