CRITIQUE ME!

[boardermatt_23]

Seeking Refuge (Not finished + no vox) by boardermatt_23 on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

Im using a Carvin dc727 with dimarzio evos into a UX1 into logic and mastering with waves

critique is appreciated!! thanks guise

 

[thedrummerkid]

Add a bass! It helps fill a mix.
Um.. less cymbal and more kick.
(I'd suggest upgrading to superior or addictive
DKFH has one sound. They have bunches!)

But your tone is delicious!

 

[boardermatt_23]

hey man thanks! yeah I have superior but I am just afraid of it... haha I cant ever get a good snare sound out of it.... do you have anything secret that you do to your snare to make it nice and full/snappy? I'm dropping holes through the midrange now..

 

[thedrummerkid]

Well, I use addictive.. but I think I can help.
I suggest first reading this guide: Systematic Mixing Series #2: In Soviet Russia, Drums Slam You - Ultimate Metal Forum
When using a good sampler, you can treat them like real drums.

Specifically for snare, use the EQ in the guide, as well as parallel compression (send the snare into two channels. CRUSH one of them with compression and blend to taste). If you want to find a quick easy fix, check out Nolly's presets: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/re...-s2-0-preset-you-guys-metal-foundry-time.html (that requires metal foundry).

But yeah, just research a lot and the sound will come.

 

[Kryss]

ya i agree cymbol mix seems a bit overpowered drop em a few points in the mix. not too much but maybe 2-4ish in a logic mix. hi hat i'd drop as well maybe a little less just so it cuts through a bit though like 1-2ish. bass guitar needs to come up some actually quite a bit it's inaudible.

 

[Ryan-ZenGtr-]

Did you high pass / low pass the whole mix? It sounds like it's been low passed too high and band passed too low.

Did you use any processing on the whole mix?

It seems a lot smaller than it should. Perhaps something is wrong on the master bus. Just compared it to something else and thought you might like to check.

Interesting music!

 

[boardermatt_23]

@drummerkid

thanks so much dude... I never would have thought to do that.. haha I mean I don't think anyone would unless they read into that guide. I'll do the snare thing, I'm also going to switch out the DKFH to Superior or avatar and mix it there..

I'm having problems with the bass though.. I know its not that loud.. but it just SOUNDS bad - so I turned it down.. lol (epiphone les paul special 4 string), it never comes in at a loud enough signal and always sounds somewhat out of tune.. when I boost things then it gets too punchy sounding and overwhelms the mix.

I'm doing a boost at around 150-200 to 8dbs and one more time at 3khz around 6 dbs.... should I be doing anything else?? I am also going off of the bulb preset with less bass and a little more drive.

 

[boardermatt_23]

@Ryan

the post processing I did was I bounced the track, no mastering, then I opened a new logic file, set a master channel with the fully bounced track and did a limiter+ultramaximizer, a slight rockish EQ, then I went it with the Vitalizer from SPL and did a slight stereo with a little tighter bass and compressed it slightly... (I'm also not sure of this technique.. lol but my laptop can't handle all the processing at once on the mix track so I have to bounce)


I dunno though I thought it sounded okay, any suggestions? and I'm not highpass or lowpassing it at all lol

 

[revclay]

Yea, the whole mix is treble heavy and lacks girth and power. But as others have said, the guitars sound really good. I would suggest learning Superior and finding some presets online to at least get you started. Then, I would tweak those presets from there to get a sound that you are happy with.

In the context of this mix, I think the snare is too high pitched to cut properly. Having a bigger sounding, lower tuned snare would help out a lot. The kicks also need more low end to deliver some more authority. Then, once you add the bass, it should sound better. The overheads also sound too washy. I would try and dial some low end back into those and take down the high end.

And as someone else has said, parallel compression is your friend and will help you out immensely. Hope this feedback is helpful.

 

[boardermatt_23]

Yea, the whole mix is treble heavy and lacks girth and power. But as others have said, the guitars sound really good. I would suggest learning Superior and finding some presets online to at least get you started. Then, I would tweak those presets from there to get a sound that you are happy with.

In the context of this mix, I think the snare is too high pitched to cut properly. Having a bigger sounding, lower tuned snare would help out a lot. The kicks also need more low end to deliver some more authority. Then, once you add the bass, it should sound better. The overheads also sound too washy. I would try and dial some low end back into those and take down the high end.

And as someone else has said, parallel compression is your friend and will help you out immensely. Hope this feedback is helpful.

It is very helpful! thank you!

-from a fellow coloradan!

 

[revclay]

It is very helpful! thank you!

-from a fellow coloradan!

Haha, I didn't even notice that you were from Rifle. That's pretty cool. Is it pretty hard to find people to jam with out there?

 

[boardermatt_23]

Haha, I didn't even notice that you were from Rifle. That's pretty cool. Is it pretty hard to find people to jam with out there?

Surprisingly I'm recording a metal band out here called Wall of The Fallen, they are fun dudes and we jam a lot... but other than that everyone else kinda sucks.. lol!

I'm posting a remixed version of this... I just did a lot of things to the mix that I have never done (parallel comp, plate/hall verbs, cutting some bleeding through the mics...

the bass still sounds weird though.. ill post soon and tell me what you think.

 

[Ryan-ZenGtr-]

Bass
-----

With bass, the old trick is to record a DI and a "Tone" that will be the main sound. I don't know if you can do two simultaneous recordings with the UX1, but if you can, try to keep a DI of your playing. Take the DI and add distortion and cabinet simulation, high and low pass it so only the area between 500khz - 2khz remains and blend it in subtly with with main tone.

Parellel compression works wonders on bass guitar. I'd steer clear of RBass (Waves) or any other bass enhancer effects, especially when working without monitors. The Waves multiband EQ's are great for bass guitar. *EDIT: I meant waves multiband compressor, waves c4. Sorry!

Low pass / high pass filters
--------------------------

I'm amazed you don't use high/low pass filters! It's the most valuable use of EQ!!! with the POD tones, I'd suggest low pass (cut treble) at 9khz or slightly higher (12khz at most) as it reduces the POD'iness of the sounds, their weakness is the artificial top end when people leave it in their recordings. Real amps don't have much up there anyway. It is also imperative you use it on drums to maintain seperation between kit pieces and with fake drums, make sure the cymbals are under control.

You can cut off under 40hz and above 3.5khz on bass and not even notice. On guitars, 120-300hz (!!!300!!! See if you miss the low end ) and 6.5khz - 12khz at the top. Basically, getting rid of the junk from the sounds. You can use it on the master bus, too, to remove junk added by high compression values and reverbs.

It's common to use this technique on the final mix, cutting bass at the extremely low frequencies (40hz high pass filter, as it's just junk down there and wasted energy) and high frequencies (12khz or higher) as it's just wasted speaker energy. No one can hear it and cheap speakers can't handle it, so it's better to cut it off. If you do go wrong, however, you can make the mix sound lacking. That's why I asked.

Spatial enhancers I avoid also, as they seem to be good but do weird things to mixes.

8db EQ boosts??? What Q setting did you use? EQ's don't do good things when boosting. It is better to use subtractive EQ'ing (remove only) as boosting is just adding artificial noise into your mix. It's better to remove what you don't want, making the good frequencies relatively louder, then compress and turn up the whole track, making more space for the good frequencies. Small Q settings are better in general, unless you want to make subtle cuts to wide ranges of frequencies, such as gradually removing top end before and band pass filter, for instance.

I did a thing on EQ here:
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/re...duction-ryan-zengtr-way-tips.html#post2484939


Master bus
-----------

Also, are you using any meters on your master bus? I'm sure you are, but you can use them to make sure there is no "preponderance of energy at any given frequency range"... Balancing your mix to a meter is a good idea, especially as compressors and maximizers will be greatly effected by heavy bass or heavy treble. You could try a little reverb on the master bus to make it sound like it was all recorded in a room together. worth a try, but subtle only.

I genuinely hope it helps! EQ is dangerous!!!

Free stuff!
----------

Free meters:
http://www.meldaproduction.com/freevstplugins/

1 click fake drum improver (try it!)- Endorphin
http://www.digitalfishphones.com/main.php?item=2&subItem=3

Try Endorphin on your bass tracks, too. It adds level on the presets though, so check that.

Final thoughts
--------------

I like the track and the style but I would say the drums and bass have been hidden by the guitars... Everything else is just for your information.

 

[boardermatt_23]

here is a remix with all your help1!!!
THANKS EVERYONE!
Remix "Seeking Refuge" by boardermatt_23 on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

 

[boardermatt_23]

Bass
-----

With bass, the old trick is to record a DI and a "Tone" that will be the main sound. I don't know if you can do two simultaneous recordings with the UX1, but if you can, try to keep a DI of your playing. Take the DI and add distortion and cabinet simulation, high and low pass it so only the area between 500khz - 2khz remains and blend it in subtly with with main tone.

Parellel compression works wonders on bass guitar. I'd steer clear of RBass (Waves) or any other bass enhancer effects, especially when working without monitors. The Waves multiband EQ's are great for bass guitar.

Low pass / high pass filters
--------------------------

I'm amazed you don't use high/low pass filters! It's the most valuable use of EQ!!! with the POD tones, I'd suggest low pass (cut treble) at 9khz or slightly higher (12khz at most) as it reduces the POD'iness of the sounds, their weakness is the artificial top end when people leave it in their recordings. Real amps don't have much up there anyway. It is also imperative you use it on drums to maintain seperation between kit pieces and with fake drums, make sure the cymbals are under control.

You can cut off under 40hz and above 3.5khz on bass and not even notice. On guitars, 120-300hz (!!!300!!! See if you miss the low end ) and 6.5khz - 12khz at the top. Basically, getting rid of the junk from the sounds. You can use it on the master bus, too, to remove junk added by high compression values and reverbs.

It's common to use this technique on the final mix, cutting bass at the extremely low frequencies (40hz high pass filter, as it's just junk down there and wasted energy) and high frequencies (12khz or higher) as it's just wasted speaker energy. No one can hear it and cheap speakers can't handle it, so it's better to cut it off. If you do go wrong, however, you can make the mix sound lacking. That's why I asked.

Spatial enhancers I avoid also, as they seem to be good but do weird things to mixes.

8db EQ boosts??? What Q setting did you use? EQ's don't do good things when boosting. It is better to use subtractive EQ'ing (remove only) as boosting is just adding artificial noise into your mix. It's better to remove what you don't want, making the good frequencies relatively louder, then compress and turn up the whole track, making more space for the good frequencies. Small Q settings are better in general, unless you want to make subtle cuts to wide ranges of frequencies, such as gradually removing top end before and band pass filter, for instance.

I did a thing on EQ here:
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/re...duction-ryan-zengtr-way-tips.html#post2484939


Master bus
-----------

Also, are you using any meters on your master bus? I'm sure you are, but you can use them to make sure there is no "preponderance of energy at any given frequency range"... Balancing your mix to a meter is a good idea, especially as compressors and maximizers will be greatly effected by heavy bass or heavy treble. You could try a little reverb on the master bus to make it sound like it was all recorded in a room together. worth a try, but subtle only.

I genuinely hope it helps! EQ is dangerous!!!

Free stuff!
----------

Free meters:
MeldaProduction Free VST plug-ins, effects, virtual instruments

1 click fake drum improver (try it!)- Endorphin
digitalfishphones.com - free audio effects plugins

Try Endorphin on your bass tracks, too. It adds level on the presets though, so check that.

Final thoughts
--------------

I like the track and the style but I would say the drums and bass have been hidden by the guitars... Everything else is just for your information.

You are the man!!! yeah ever since I started cutting the EQ's earlier from reading some more shit it just sounded better and better.
I did 3 bass tracks one lowpass and two highpass panned left right with the center being the lowpassed one...made the bass sound waaay tighter and it "locked" in so to say...

fucking great advice man glad some people on here are bros.

 

[shredguitar7]

hey man thanks! yeah I have superior but I am just afraid of it... haha I cant ever get a good snare sound out of it.... do you have anything secret that you do to your snare to make it nice and full/snappy? I'm dropping holes through the midrange now..

IMHO all the snares that come with Metal Foundry suck ween... i always make an X-drum and use the snares from the Avatar kit. they just sound so much better. in particular i use the Piccolo snare and honestly in my mixes, i only have a bit of the 200Hz area boosted to taste to fatten it up, so other than that i have basically no EQ. just a good compressor and i use a transient designer to bring out the sustain cuz i like a pongy snare. just my two cents.. i like the avatar snares better. metal foundry kicks are good. but i tweaked them forever until i liked them.

 

[revclay]

Just listened to the new mix, and it sounds substantially better. I'm still not a huge fan of the sound of the drums, but you said you were going to be using Avatar instead at a later date and I think that would make the most sense. Considering what you have to work with, I think it sounds a lot better. The bass is still a little weird, but it's a huge step in the right direction. Well done.

 

[boardermatt_23]

Just listened to the new mix, and it sounds substantially better. I'm still not a huge fan of the sound of the drums, but you said you were going to be using Avatar instead at a later date and I think that would make the most sense. Considering what you have to work with, I think it sounds a lot better. The bass is still a little weird, but it's a huge step in the right direction. Well done.

I am actually using the avatar kit!! I wonder why it still sound funkified...
its also because I wrote the drums and im nowhere near a drummer... lols!

 

[Ryan-ZenGtr-]

I'm really glad to hear that you benefited from my advice and the other contributors.

Listening to the new mix, if you wanted to improve it further... Not much point as it conveys the song well... ... good job!

If though.... It sounds too me as if you are afraid of drums and bass guitar. Too me, metal sounds best if you can actually hear the bass, subtly defining the rythmns and being the foundation of the chords. Spend some time with Endorphin, the Distortion doubletracking and try to get an overall tone YOU like.

Try mixing the drums alone as well, with endorphin, lowpass/high pass filters and some subtle reverb, you won't need much.

So, to start combining the sounds. I mix to maintain dynamics, here's my process;

1. Master bus
Set master fader to -6db ( to give you headroom ). Put on your favourite meters, nothing else active. You'll want waves 10 band and the ultramaximizer L2 or L3. Maybe ... Some reverb at the end, just a tiny amount to make it sound like it was all recorded together. Don't run any of that stuff on. It's icing for the end.

2. Drum Bus
Put EQ and endorphin on your stereo drum bounce. Add a touch of reverb. Hi/lo pass to taste before the compressor, find the snare sweet spot and cut around it.

The drums make up the stereo field of your recording and give the high end from the cymbals/overhead mic's. This will make your recordings overall frequency range and dynamics. nothing else does this like drums. get 'em nice and big before doing anything else (for heavy music).

Avoid gimmicks like Rbass or stereo widener, unless you really want them. Don't use additive EQ unless you have to, cut rather than add. Look at my EQ tips for help with that if you need it.

3. Bass bus
Try the bass trick I suggested and compress it to oblivion. Try EQ (hi/lo band pass cut), endorphin or other compressor. reverb works well on bass, too. I didn't use it for a long time, but do now. chorus can also work! Mix in the distortion track to this bus, once you are happy with the core tone, or use a sererate bus for it with it's own detailing.

Try to get the drums and bass punchy, dynamic and huge. Spending time here will maximise the effect and power of your guitars. Really!

4. Take a BREAK!!!
Get some food, fresh air or even leave it a day or two. come back with fresh ears and listen at different volumes to the bass + drum mix.

5. Guitar time!
I try not to process guitars. Adding more to them inevitably adds to the confusion. I keep DI's of my guitar tracks so I can change it later.

Try EQ, Waves multiband compressor c4 and reverb. I mix all tracks seperately like this; guitar 1 doubletracked panned L80 R30 = Guitar 1 bus
repeat for Guitar bus 2

It's easier to pan the guitars from the bus rather than as tracks, later if you want to make changes or automation.

With EQ hi/lo pass making sure to cut the high end above 9khz, or to taste. If you haven't got monitors, you may miss the bat radar dolphin noises dog whistle super high end stuff, so it's safer to cut it. Removes fake ness as real amps don't go there.

Mix the guitars so you can still hear the drum and bass mix you did. Cut all the bottom out of the guitars (YES!!!!) so the drums and bass have frequency space to work. Killing the drums and bass to excite the guitar is a losing battle...

High pass between 120-320 hz on the guitars... all right, if your down tuned really low, go to 80hz, but your bass and drums will suffer. The higher up the bass register you cut guitars, the better your bass and drums will sound = fact!

So find the point where the guitar is NOT compromised but the Bass and drum mix still is clear, precise and punchy. Trust me, higher is better. It's difficult at first to accept that killing your beautiful guitar tone will be better for mixing. It always makes me sad. But, for the sake of your mix, at least try it! Once you find a compromise that you can accept move on the the master bus!

Final Mix
Hi/lo pass the master at 40hz and 14khz. Usless frequencies no one can actually hear. You can go higher if you want but only super speakers will be able to produce it.

Get your balance right amongst the busses, listen for elements like snares, cymbals or guitar harmonics; check the balance or use EQ on the master bus to bring them out i.e. can't hear snare = Cut bass and guitar with wide Q by 1.5 - 3db at 500 - 900 hz, making space for snare - Dont boost with EQ, CUT !!!.

Add a touch, smidgen, tiny amount of EQ and reverb to bring it together. Where you place your hi/lo pass filters will determine the character of your mix. Experiment for your sound!!!

Death metal would cut both bass and treble a lot for that shitty home studio sound. Modern metal would have a wider frequency range. classical music would have no bandpass to hear full spectrum recording, guitars and cymbals hurt at the top end treble so cut !!! And remove some bass so sub listeners don't get the brown note.

Check your master bus reduction of -3db or -6db (as I use) that I suggested at the very beginning. If you need to raise it, now is the time!

If you don't, then you have a dynamic mix which is good. If you do need to raise it without peaks then perhaps go back to the levels and try to get some dynamics. Adjust the bus balance to get something happening.

Don't forget to set the dither rate on l2 or l3 to the desired output (16bit for CD quality/mp3).

Render. Done. Enjoy!

If you use anything esoteric (mixer channel impulses, ozone, whatever) you should have that switched on while you balance your tracks (everything before the "final mix" section here). Anything that will affect your final mix DRAMATICALLY should be on while you make your mix decisions. I try to avoid gimmick / trick plug ins and keep to pure sounds, but that may change for me, I don't know.

Good luck and I hope that helps you achieve the mixes you are looking for! Don't forget to check out others mixes for ideas! I look forward to hearing MOAR from you!